Sad day in St Lucia

[JonnyQuest]

It's a good discussion to have. No experience but I read that flares as a personal defense round isn't so good since the round travels slow and is more likely to bounce off if it even hits your bad guy.

Pirates Plague is an interesting idea, the sleeve that allows a 38 round to be fired from a flare gun.

ZeeHag would give good insight for traveling the Americas. I'm thinking safety in numbers by anchoring in marinas in trouble areas. Is that logistically feasible when cruising southern latitudes?

 

[cajon409]

I would like to throw 2 cents in, I do carry a gun {legal}. My wife knows how to use it, my children do also, and we are in the process of traing our grandkids to respect them, accidents do happen. But I know very well a lot of counties you can not bring one in,at least not legal. For as long as i am stateside I will have mine with me. Bad things happen to good people all the time.My heart goes out to this family. As stated above be aware of your surounding. As was past down to me was " sometimes it is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permision"..A great book to read is "Bound to a Promise" by Bonny Floyd. It is a true story of the lost of her parents, The captian, and first mate, due to attack while in port in Antigua. Made national news. We need to be aware and learn from such tragedies as this.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

How about a flare gun revolver?!

 

[ELMAX]

Not to hijack this thread which was to bring this awful event to our attention, I am still concerned about how one could/should safely carry a defensive weapon aboard a medium sized boat. Zeehag and others who ply Mexican waters regularly might jump in, but not only are weapons illegal there and other Central and South American countries, but I can visualize authorities in some of these countries being quick to assume that a boat with a weapon is presumptively involved in the drug trade. If one felt the need to sail armed, you have to decide whether to declare or hide the weapon in an effort to dodge the potential hassle. But where and how to do this effectively, even if boarded and searched?

Friends Sailors, in Europe and forbidden to carry weapons except for fishing. I have a gun fishing gun diving and small, so it recharges quickly, and I bought several arrows, and very powerful, it can give you a chance?

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Guys,

I believe I've said it earlier, that you NEED to familiarize yourself with regulations required for foreign ports. I in no way expressed the idea of carrying a gun illegally in areas where they are prohibited. If you must cruise to foreign waters, don't go where you CANNOT carry a gun for protection.

I think this thread has gone off on a tangent somewhat. It's not about should we carry a gun to protect ourselves or legalities in foreign waters. It's about unarmed boaters raped, killed, thrown o'board etc. that I read about all the time. I wonder what the numbers killed would be if the victims had protection.

Nolasafari, it's a known fact you don't take a knife to a gunfight. Also if ganged up on by five men, a knife in your hand will not win you the battle. The biggest drawback in thinking a knife is the better weapon, your forgetting that to use a knife, you have to be up-close & personal. This is bad thinking. The thought is to NOT let your assailants get close.

Kito said it correctly, Had Mr. Platt come out of the cabin with gun in hand, the outcome would have been different considering the robbers had no gun. So I have to ask, it's fine to discuss the pros & cons of carrying a gun onboard however, not having personally found yourself in what may be a life/death situation, is this REALLY the chance you wish to take?

It's not a matter of philosophy or moral reasoning, but protection for you & yours.

CR

 

[kito]

Sorry for the stupid question but I haven't been out of the US when sailing so can someone enlighten me on how thorough these boat inspections usually are? Just wondering if it is possible to hide a weapon onboard. I don't mean just under a pillow. I guess I would rather take a chance and pay the concequences rather than be totally defenseless. After all, the bad guys will know it's easy pick'ns if they know there are no weapons onboard to worry about. Probably why Mr Platts attackers were unarmed.

 

[Terry in Naples]

I am a floridian. I have a cc permit and we have the famous "stand your ground " law. I grew up a farm boy around guns for hunting. I often carry on the boat if i am going to remote places in sw florida. I feel safer.

 

[nolasafari]

Nolasafari, it's a known fact you don't take a knife to a gunfight. Also if ganged up on by five men, a knife in your hand will not win you the battle. The biggest drawback in thinking a knife is the better weapon, your forgetting that to use a knife, you have to be up-close & personal. This is bad thinking. The thought is to NOT let your assailants get close.
CR

Captnron: you are correct, right on the money I would suggest that a sailor’s knife be considered a backup. I have a CC permit and have for years. I am no spring chicken and could be considered an easy target. I have a variety of carry weapons. Due to my employment I can’t carry a firearm in to the building, but I would guess that 50 to 60 percent of my co-works are armed, most concealed. Almost to a man/woman they carry a knife in their pocket. Not all fights are 5 on one not all require a gun. It is not practical to walk around with an M4 slung on your shoulder. Due to the location of my office I have to walk by vagrants, dopers, and mentally ill people at least twice a day ( Several Missions in the area). Sometimes you won’t see one for weeks then you will see several in a day. I am very aware of who and where they are and will slip my knife into my closed hand. I recently had one who was drugged up start to follow me into the stairwell of the parking garage; I had the knife in my hand unopened. As the man got closer I turned and screamed stay away, do not come closer as loud as I could repeating several times. I wanted him to know that I didn’t want him near me, I wanted to attract attention of anyone in the area, I did not open the knife, I did not brandish the knife. He turned away mumbling and staggered off it was a win for both of us.

Another non-lethal weapon that is handy is a collapsible baton. I carry one of these when I walk my dogs, two small Schnauzers. It is handy to push away larger dogs who are off leash and come up to them, can be used to give an attacking dog a bloody nose, and change the attitude of an owner of an aggressive dog who thinks it is his right to walk his dog off leash. I have deployed the baton several times and have only had to push away dogs as their owners ran up to take control of the offending animal. I have not had to strike a dog or owner, another win. Some states may require a CC permit.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Nolasafari,

Your getting off target here (no pun intended).
We're not talking about guns in the workplace man, it's about being on a boat and being attacked. I just don't get what your argument is. A baton.......REALLY, against maybe a gun?

Me thinks thou protest too much. It's not about semantics, it's about victim vs. survivor & what options you have that will secure your survival.

To add to my argument, I was bicycling with my girlfriend in an isolated bike path 6 years ago. Two Latino speaking guys hiding in the bushes about 30 yards apart jumped out at us (one in front of us, the other behind us on this narrow trail).

I had NO weapon. The only way out was running twenty yards thru palmetto plants to the beach. You can get pretty cut-up by palmettos. We got to the surf line, luckily on the way, I picked up a 4 ft. tree branch & hit the first guy square about his head. He dropped like a rock. The other guy took off. Now, ask yourself this; I got off lucky as I never saw a gun. BUT, what if they had a gun? Do you think my branch would have saved me then? Wake up pal.

So, thinking about it, that makes 4 dire situations I found myself in these past twenty years. I'm not a big guy, so some may view me as an easy target. So, if the s*** hits the fan, I don't want to let them get close to me. If you haven't experienced situations like this, you have NO argumentative reference with which to question my insight. If you want to battle, pick the right battles to fight & not just take an opposite view to bander about, never having been there.

I do know my way gives me a better shot at survival. However from your comments, I feel that you may not.

CR

 

[Chris Patterson]

I've been thinking this again through the day, it's cold, I'm inside sewing, and scheming. I use this reference commonly, and I call it the priority list. Everyone has a priority list, and it is subject to change every day. Some things naturally stay near the top, others riding at the bottom or not on the list at all.
Maybe I just read it here, or got strayed off on another site, but it was mentioned that a single .38 round wouldn't do much, ie: the apparatus that converts a flare gun to a single shot pistol. However..
There are some looooooong odds in being boarded by a gang, or even two people most times. Well; you start knocking holes in somebodies a&$, and that priority list has just changed immediately. Going about robbing someone is more likely than not start going down the list somewhat. And I'm making an educated guess that getting some medical attention is going to be top priority for the next while.

Another thing. I started to delete that earlier post, it seemed kinda funny this morning, and now it just looks like I'm mad at the world or something. Not so. I don't have any use for something like that much these days. And the idea of most any cruiser I know carrying things of this sort into a foreign country is nuts. I doubt island republics incorporate cordite sniffing dogs, their primary function being drugs, (as is most everybody elses). Anyways..

The one thing I've bared in mind though is Mr. Platt. That man is another one of my hero's. He got offed while fighting back to protect his wife. There is no more a honorable man.

 

[nolasafari]

Nolasafari,

Your getting off target here (no pun intended).
We're not talking about guns in the workplace man, it's about being on a boat and being attacked. I just don't get what your argument is. A baton.......REALLY, against maybe a gun?

Me thinks thou protest too much. It's not about semantics, it's about victim vs. survivor & what options you have that will secure your survival.

To add to my argument, I was bicycling with my girlfriend in an isolated bike path 6 years ago. Two Latino speaking guys hiding in the bushes about 30 yards apart jumped out at us (one in front of us, the other behind us on this narrow trail).

I had NO weapon. The only way out was running twenty yards thru palmetto plants to the beach. You can get pretty cut-up by palmettos. We got to the surf line, luckily on the way, I picked up a 4 ft. tree branch & hit the first guy square about his head. He dropped like a rock. The other guy took off. Now, ask yourself this; I got off lucky as I never saw a gun. BUT, what if they had a gun? Do you think my branch would have saved me then? Wake up pal.

So, thinking about it, that makes 4 dire situations I found myself in these past twenty years. I'm not a big guy, so some may view me as an easy target. So, if the s*** hits the fan, I don't want to let them get close to me. If you haven't experienced situations like this, you have NO argumentative reference with which to question my insight. If you want to battle, pick the right battles to fight & not just take an opposite view to bander about, never having been there.

I do know my way gives me a better shot at survival. However from your comments, I feel that you may not.

CR

captron, I am so off base. I am not protesting anything and I am not arguing anything. I am not even talking about guns in the workplace. Pointing out than many who carry guns in their line of work oftern carry a knife also. Thank you for pointing out that a baton can't be used as a good defensive weapon, that is good to know, I have been misled. I agree that your way of survival is a much better way and that I am lacking in my understanding of how to twat an attack. If I am evey in a situation where a couple of Latino Speaking Guys jump out of the bushes and scare me I will use your advice to prevent harm to my family and myself.

 

[nolasafari]

Nolasafari,

Your getting off target here (no pun intended).
We're not talking about guns in the workplace man, it's about being on a boat and being attacked. I just don't get what your argument is. A baton.......REALLY, against maybe a gun?

Me thinks thou protest too much. It's not about semantics, it's about victim vs. survivor & what options you have that will secure your survival.

To add to my argument, I was bicycling with my girlfriend in an isolated bike path 6 years ago. Two Latino speaking guys hiding in the bushes about 30 yards apart jumped out at us (one in front of us, the other behind us on this narrow trail).

I had NO weapon. The only way out was running twenty yards thru palmetto plants to the beach. You can get pretty cut-up by palmettos. We got to the surf line, luckily on the way, I picked up a 4 ft. tree branch & hit the first guy square about his head. He dropped like a rock. The other guy took off. Now, ask yourself this; I got off lucky as I never saw a gun. BUT, what if they had a gun? Do you think my branch would have saved me then? Wake up pal.

So, thinking about it, that makes 4 dire situations I found myself in these past twenty years. I'm not a big guy, so some may view me as an easy target. So, if the s*** hits the fan, I don't want to let them get close to me. If you haven't experienced situations like this, you have NO argumentative reference with which to question my insight. If you want to battle, pick the right battles to fight & not just take an opposite view to bander about, never having been there.

I do know my way gives me a better shot at survival. However from your comments, I feel that you may not.

CR

captron, I am so off base. I am not protesting anything and I am not arguing anything. I am not even talking about guns in the workplace. Pointing out than many who carry guns in their line of work oftern carry a knife also. Thank you for pointing out that a baton can't be used as a good defensive weapon, that is good to know, I have been misled. I agree that your way of survival is a much better way and that I am lacking in my understanding of how to twat an attack. If I am evey in a situation where a couple of Latino Speaking Guys jump out of the bushes and scare me I will use your advice to prevent harm to my family and myself.

 

[kloudie1]

Chris..?? are those Ben Wa Balls??
uuhhh or Benoit balls??

 

[Chris Patterson]

Those are balls of solid steel, man. I've had 'em for a long time. Mysteriously they grew through the years, not so much anymore. Cool to the grasp. Like the black-hearted devil that possesses them..

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Guys,

Just to let everyone know in this thread, it might have seemed that Nolasafari & I were bumping heads. This I assure all was not so , thru private discussions back-n-forth, I can say he is one of the good guys on this site, a sailor I would sail with anytime.

His heart is in the right place. He, like me does not believe in violence, but sometimes that's just not your call. It can just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time that starts the chains in motion.

Nolasafari, looking forward to your future posts pal........

CR

 

[Bill Roosa]

there are a host of options.
a sound cannon, 500 dbl of ear shattering directional noise. Effective out to about 50 yards (wear your ear plugs!) and the plans are free on the internet.
flame thrower on the life line or a hand held. Plumb your propane tank to supply 10 psi to the tube and just provide a way to keep it lit when you need it. Not so long range but after getting their ears blasted they might start to get the idea that you might be serious.
sticky glue or slippery slime. sticks like fly paper or makes it impossible to board the boat.
google "non-leather" for more ideas.

 

[kito]

I have been thinking of self defense options that would be legal to have aboard. How bout a pressurized bottle of a highly flammable liquid followed up with a flare gun? Mr Platt would have seen 5 fireballs jumping off his boat......like a big Roman candle Just be sure it's a liquid that burns quick so not to set your boat aflame. But a Glock 21 with 13Golden Sabres seems much simpler....but illegal.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Kito,

I have an idea....how about a Stinger missile?

Then, all the threats go away pal.

HOWEVER, I like the way you think man, sorta like mine kind of sailor!
And, this tells me you & I will survive.

CR

 

[nolasafari]

Guys,

Just to let everyone know in this thread, it might have seemed that Nolasafari & I were bumping heads. This I assure all was not so , thru private discussions back-n-forth, I can say he is one of the good guys on this site, a sailor I would sail with anytime.

His heart is in the right place. He, like me does not believe in violence, but sometimes that's just not your call. It can just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time that starts the chains in motion.

Nolasafari, looking forward to your future posts pal........

CR

I am not sure who you are having a private discussion with, it is not me. You sent me a a private message which I disregarded.

 

[kito]

But stinger missiles are illegal I bet Actually, to all the anti-gun sailors out there, bad guys are looking for easy prey. At least give them the idea that you are not. Even a bb pistol equipped with a tactical light with a green laser will make them look elsewhere. When they see a green laser pointing at their heart they will high tail it out of there. Even a dumb arse thug is not willing to die for a few bucks. I say green laser rather than red since green is easier to see in daylight. Heck, I scared off some drunken rednecks that was getting just to close to my boat at 3 in the morning by racking my slide. All I heard was "$%#@ this....he's got a gun"