Running the engine on jack stands?

[Gunni]

Someone long ago told me to not run my engine on the jack stands (probably one of the know-it-all rummies down at the fuel dock). I watched Maine Sail's vid where he freshwater flushes his engine before adding antifreeze. That looks like the way to do it right. My winter yard has a graveled, compacted construction, I see no reason to believe it would liquify or shift under my stands, but who knows.

So my question, do you run your engine on the stands and flush it with fresh water and antifreeze?

 

[Warren Milberg]

I winterize my engine in the water. I typically run a hose from the input end of the water strainer (Yanmar 2GM20F) to a 5 gal bucket of fresh water. When the fresh water is almost all sucked up, I pour in a gal of -100 antifreeze. When its gone, shut down the engine and I'm done.

FYI, some yards have rules that do not allow engines to be run on the hard. Some that do permit it require the removal of the prop first. So if you are planning to winterize on the hard by running your engine, best to check with your yard first.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Like Warren I have always flushed my engine with freshwater while floating. But this year, due to a mis-communication with the yard, I had to wait until I was on the hard. I did it the same way as though it was in the water. Flushed for 10 minutes and then added antifreeze. I did have a friend catch the antifreeze from the exhaust to minimize the ground pollution.

Others on boats around me routinely winterize this way.

 

[navigator97]

I did my winterizing of the engine Raw Water Loop on the hard on jack stands. I too put a longer hose (about 6 Ft.) from the input side of the strainer to a pail sitting on the aft cabin deck. The pail was filled with fresh water and I had the hose, connected to city water, in the pail with a ball valve on the end of the hose. I started the engine and set the ball valve so that rate the engine sucked water out of the pail was matched by the rate the garden hose was adding water. I ran the engine for about 10 minutes flushing with fresh water. I then shut off the ball valve, and as the water level got to the bottom of the pail, I added in a gallon of -100F NTAF. As that got to the bottom of the pail I added a gallon of BanFrost 2000 to the pail. As that got to the bottom of the pail. I shut down the engine. Winterizing done. Then just reconnected the short hose from the input sea cock to the strainer. The boat yard uses the same procedure and materials when they do it for other boats. My engine is also a Yanmar 2GM20F.

 

[Davidasailor26]

We've winterized ours on jack stands for many years. Basically we do the same as navigator except we skip the garden hose for 10 minutes part. Do be sure not to put the engine in gear as that's not only dangerous but also bad for the cutlass bearing. If you change the oil just before the procedure it provides a good chance to cycle the fresh oil through the engine and check the level.

 

[Chuckbear]

Gunni, Over the years I have winterized thousands of boat on stands in the yard with no issues. That was before we moved to a warmer climate. The only caution is to let the engine draw the water from a source, don't stick a hose on it and turn the pressure on. Chuck

 

[Chris Patterson]

Like said, unless the yard has a problem with it, I can not imagine there being any issues other than that. Fact is, I've never heard of anyone having a problem running one on the hard. Short of the cutlass bearing issue, theoretically, the engine could run for years that way.
And a man would have to run SCADS of water out of it to undermine a jack stand.

rummies..

 

[Gunni]

Thanks folks, this makes me confident that I can complete a much improved winterization - and not blow a bunch of PG into the Bay.

Warren: I'm surprised that you can complete the antifreeze input with one gallon of antifreeze, my Yanmar 4JH3E and water muffler seem to require a minimum of 5 gallons. Maybe more like 7.

 

[Maine Sail]

Thanks folks, this makes me confident that I can complete a much improved winterization - and not blow a bunch of PG into the Bay.

Warren: I'm surprised that you can complete the antifreeze input with one gallon of antifreeze, my Yanmar 4JH3E and water muffler seem to require a minimum of 5 gallons. Maybe more like 7.

I've yet to see ANY engine that could take just one gallon and not be heavily diluted thus rasing the freeze and burst points dramatically.

Warren is in a warmer area and has likely been lucky.. I have an M-25 HX in my barn that suffered a freezing and it had three gallons of -50F run through it, not enough for the -18F we saw that winter....... I have one customer with the same M-25 engine that requires 5 gallons to maintain the AF rating it went in as...

 

[Warren Milberg]

I've been using only one gal of -100 anti-freeze since I bought this boat in 2003. While we've had some mild winters since that time, we've also had some really cold ones, as well. Having said that, if it ever gets to -18 around here, as it apparently does in Maine, I'm outta here! I can see purple coming out the exhaust when the gallon is all sucked up so I assume the entire system is protected.... I've never tested the freeze point of what gets pumped out at spring start-up, but may do that next year just for curiousity. It may be that the -100 AF is only being diluted a small bit, but not enough to freeze. Might be a different case if I were using -50 AF. Stay tuned for a report next spring.

 

[NotCook]

Well, we can run our Perkins 6-135 main engine on the hard all day long. We have a 200 gallon coolant reservoir in the keel, so the main engine never sees raw water.

The genset is a different matter. The Westerbeke 10 BTD draws raw water. We follow the same general procedure as others above, on the hard. Pull the intake hose, jam a connector into it with a hose from a 5 gallon tank of propylene glycol start the genset and let the whole thing run through the system and out the exhaust. I figure the first few gallons get pretty well diluted and the last two are left in the system for the winter. With the engine marginally warm at that point, we drain the oil and refill. If we do this while still a little warm from running just before we haul, then even better.

 

[We2Sail12113]

In addition, Vise Grips onto the creeping prop shaft . . .

:snip
So my question, do you run your engine on the stands and flush it with fresh water and antifreeze?

Basically I follow the same regimen as Navigator, with one exception. My prop shaft has some rotatating creep, even with the transmission lever in NEUTRAL. To stop the creep, I put a pair of Vise Grips pliars onto the drive shaft near the end of the transmission. As the shaft creeps, the vise grips stop the shaft as the Vise Grip pliers contact the hull.

(I have Hunter 27 with a Yanmar SB8 (8 HP) diesel.

(The problem with the creep, of course, other than the danger to the dry cutless bearing, is the obvious danger (liability) of a rotating prop shaft.) [ Which is probably why someone else's yard insists on removing the prop before starting the engine.

Hint: Be sure to remove Vise Grips right after winterizing!

Bob

 

[RAD88]

Neutral adjustment

Basically I follow the same regimen as Navigator, with one exception. My prop shaft has some rotatating creep, even with the transmission lever in NEUTRAL. To stop the creep, I put a pair of Vise Grips pliars onto the drive shaft near the end of the transmission. As the shaft creeps, the vise grips stop the shaft as the Vise Grip pliers contact the hull.

(I have Hunter 27 with a Yanmar SB8 (8 HP) diesel.

(The problem with the creep, of course, other than the danger to the dry cutless bearing, is the obvious danger (liability) of a rotating prop shaft.) [ Which is probably why someone else's yard insists on removing the prop before starting the engine.

Hint: Be sure to remove Vise Grips right after winterizing!

Bob

Prop creep is usually an easy adjustment in the transmission. The amount of creep when running the engine on the hard will probably not do any damage to the cutlass bearing as long as you are not running the engine for hours.
But - clamping the shaft will wear out the clutch plate in the transmission - a much more expensive fix.
The picture will explain how to adjust the neutral drift in the transmission. I did it to mine (YSB12) and it took about 2 minutes. Hope this helps.

 

[We2Sail12113]

Looks like a winner!

Prop creep is usually an easy adjustment in the transmission.
:snip The picture will explain how to adjust the neutral drift in the transmission. I did it to mine (YSB12) and it took about 2 minutes. Hope this helps.

Thank You,

Bob

 

[AXEL]

Same as above, I run on jack stands until up to temperture, then shut down, change the oil and filter. Then start her back up, suck up a gallon of AF (Westerbeke 21) and that's it. A gallon will do it, I see pink coming out the exhaust, never had a freeze problem in 20+ years. Make sure your jack stands have chains attached between them or they can creep with the vibration. That would be bad.

 

[Maine Sail]

Same as above, I run on jack stands until up to temperture, then shut down, change the oil and filter. Then start her back up, suck up a gallon of AF (Westerbeke 21) and that's it. A gallon will do it, I see pink coming out the exhaust, never had a freeze problem in 20+ years. Make sure your jack stands have chains attached between them or they can creep with the vibration. That would be bad.

Guys this is please be very careful with this advice.

As one who actively tests AF concentrations when winterizing, on LOTS of boats, I have yet to see one that can take a gallon and be adequately protected... PLEASE winterize carefully. 3-5 gallons of AF is $10.50 - $17.50. A heat exchanger, water pump or strainer many $$$$ more..... I have a Universal HX that froze and split with THREE GALLONS sucked in....

Please remember that the BURST POINT for plastic pipe is -10F on UNDILUTED -50F propylene glycol. Dilute it just a tiny bit and your burst point is well above 0F... A thin walled copper tube heat exchanger is as fragile as just about any plastic pipe. Again PLEASE be careful.. This is NOT an area to save $10.50 on....

This is what came out of that M-25 HX that split a tube. Again, three gallons of -50F PG antifreeze were sucked in. It still froze and split... Look at the color of what came out of the HX it does NOT match what it went in as. Yes the owner "saw pink" but the "concentration" of "pink" was nowhere near enough.... These test strips are not what I normally use but you can't take a picture into a sight refractometer.

It will take this owner 108 years to make up the "savings" of the two gallons of AF he did not buy vs. the repair costs...........

 

[gettinthere]

We had to motor the boat to the hoist. How would you winterize before haulout? The yard darn sure wouldn't let you sit in the hoist slip while winterizing, they had a schedule to keep.

 

[Maine Sail]

We had to motor the boat to the hoist. How would you winterize before haulout? The yard darn sure wouldn't let you sit in the hoist slip while winterizing, they had a schedule to keep.

I've done it in the slings and it is easy.

Warm the engine at the dock so that all start up condensation is gone.
Motor to slings
Have 5 gal bucket pre-filled with AF, and your hose, ready to go (pre-planning)
Once you get to slings shut motor down, close intake seacock & switch hoses
Fire up motor and suck AF through
Our motor can draina 5 gallon bucket in about 45 seconds

If done right it should take you less than two minutes to complete in the slings if you've done all the prep. Most sling operators can wait the 120 seconds and for that matter it will take them longer than this to get the boat centered and the slings in place.