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gotta reach
We daysail a 17 footer and don't have the advantage of sail changing. Don't think I would anyway except maybe racing. The little fractional rig is very fast to weather and we love the speed of reaching back. Whats more fun than beating to weather and surfing on a broad reach? Have fun guys!
We daysail a 17 footer and don't have the advantage of sail changing. Don't think I would anyway except maybe racing. The little fractional rig is very fast to weather and we love the speed of reaching back. Whats more fun than beating to weather and surfing on a broad reach? Have fun guys!
Whisker pole or Asymetrical
I love sailing dead down wind with a whisker pole for my 130 genny set to windward and the main set to leeward. When everythin is balanced you can almost sail without steering. My other choice is my asymetrical spinnaker that I built myself from a sailrite kit. Awesome sail but hard to set and douse shorthanded. this sail is great in about 8 knots of wind, boat moves really nice and not overpowered. good up to about 12 knots, after that it gets a little wild for a couple out cruising and the increased wind strength makes dousing the sail that much harder. Dead downwind without a whisker pole is torture but with one it is great!!! Yes they are expensive but I think well worth it. dave
I love sailing dead down wind with a whisker pole for my 130 genny set to windward and the main set to leeward. When everythin is balanced you can almost sail without steering. My other choice is my asymetrical spinnaker that I built myself from a sailrite kit. Awesome sail but hard to set and douse shorthanded. this sail is great in about 8 knots of wind, boat moves really nice and not overpowered. good up to about 12 knots, after that it gets a little wild for a couple out cruising and the increased wind strength makes dousing the sail that much harder. Dead downwind without a whisker pole is torture but with one it is great!!! Yes they are expensive but I think well worth it. dave
The lazy way.
I've raced on Lake Michigan, both around the buoys and on the Mack. Having worked the foredeck, I favor using a 150 jib with a pole over a spinnaker for short distances. I seem to hold a tactical advantage on quick moves when going dead downwind. There is nothing like a spinnaker sled ride with a few degrees to play with. My 20ft day sailor does just fine without the shoot and with the spinnaker pole to keep it from folding in, I can sit back and enjoy the ride. I am always reluctant to use the spinnaker when I have a crew of all new sea dogs. Excitement does not equal chaos.
I've raced on Lake Michigan, both around the buoys and on the Mack. Having worked the foredeck, I favor using a 150 jib with a pole over a spinnaker for short distances. I seem to hold a tactical advantage on quick moves when going dead downwind. There is nothing like a spinnaker sled ride with a few degrees to play with. My 20ft day sailor does just fine without the shoot and with the spinnaker pole to keep it from folding in, I can sit back and enjoy the ride. I am always reluctant to use the spinnaker when I have a crew of all new sea dogs. Excitement does not equal chaos.
wing and wing with no jibes
I picked up a slick technique for running W&W that takes all the fear out of it. First, I run the main out to one side as far as possible to one side, use my boom vang (a tackle type, not a rigid bar) to tie the boom down to the toe rail on that side just ahead of the boom. Then I use a spinnaker pole to hold the clew of the jib out to the other side, and then tighten the jib sheet. I used it this weekend in about 10 to 12 knots of wind and was able to steer through a range of headings of about than 45 degs. with no fear of jibes. My downwind speed was about 4 to 5 knots. BTW, my boat is an 81 Hunter 30. Hope this helps. Dave...
I picked up a slick technique for running W&W that takes all the fear out of it. First, I run the main out to one side as far as possible to one side, use my boom vang (a tackle type, not a rigid bar) to tie the boom down to the toe rail on that side just ahead of the boom. Then I use a spinnaker pole to hold the clew of the jib out to the other side, and then tighten the jib sheet. I used it this weekend in about 10 to 12 knots of wind and was able to steer through a range of headings of about than 45 degs. with no fear of jibes. My downwind speed was about 4 to 5 knots. BTW, my boat is an 81 Hunter 30. Hope this helps. Dave...
Cruising Chute
Some of my most enjoyable downwind runs have been with my cruising chute without the main. We sail in the California Delta so our downwind runs are always on the way home and in a fairly narrow waterway. That means that you don't have much choice of what direction you want to sail. Without the main it's much easier to trim the cruising chute from almost a beam reach to "by the lee" without having to jibe the chute.
Some of my most enjoyable downwind runs have been with my cruising chute without the main. We sail in the California Delta so our downwind runs are always on the way home and in a fairly narrow waterway. That means that you don't have much choice of what direction you want to sail. Without the main it's much easier to trim the cruising chute from almost a beam reach to "by the lee" without having to jibe the chute.
double head sail
in ou local races double head sails are allowed. it is like a turbo boost. try it
in ou local races double head sails are allowed. it is like a turbo boost. try it
Getting a Genny
I have to get a Gennaker for my Hunter326. Sailing downwind is tough... B&R rig which doesn't let the main out all the way, a 110% foresail (small!) with no whisker or spinaker pole, and though the boom won't crack my head open during a jibe thanks to the arch on the Hunter, the mainsheet comes flying through the cockpit like a lasso. Scary. So... I broad reach to destination, then lower the mainsail and run downwind into the port under foresail alone. (lot easier to roll up at the last minute.) Jef & s/v *Pixie*
I have to get a Gennaker for my Hunter326. Sailing downwind is tough... B&R rig which doesn't let the main out all the way, a 110% foresail (small!) with no whisker or spinaker pole, and though the boom won't crack my head open during a jibe thanks to the arch on the Hunter, the mainsheet comes flying through the cockpit like a lasso. Scary. So... I broad reach to destination, then lower the mainsail and run downwind into the port under foresail alone. (lot easier to roll up at the last minute.) Jef & s/v *Pixie*
Multihulls downwind , down under .
When you have a boat whose polar diagram shows a great big bulge in the broad reaching sector ( in my case a Hobie 17 ) , the velocity made good directly downwind is greater when broad reaching than sailing dead before the breeze . One of my other boats ( this one is a Hobie 14 ) does not have the same performance in this sector and sailing directly downwind produces a better VMG downwind than when broad reaching . One must realise that in order to make broad reaching the better option , you really have to concentrate and work hard to keep the apparent wind at the right angle of attack ! (that is directly amidships )As your boat accelerates in a gust , the appatent wind moves toward the head of your boat and you can sail a broader reach , but when you sail through the gust and your boat slows down , you must head up as the apparent wind moves back towards the true wind ( the apparent wind and the true wind are the same if your boat stops ) . To monitor this effect , I tie a piece of audio recorder tape to each of my lower forestays around 4 ft up from the bows and making them around 3 ft long they stretch across and almost touch the other forestay . The best apparent wind direction for broad reaching is directly abeam , so I simply steer my boat around to keep the windward tape pointing directly across to the other stay . As I slow down the tape streams forward of the leeward stay and I have to head up to bring it back in line . Conversly as I speed up the tape end moves aft of abeam and I have to bear away to bring it back in line . There you have it - downwind sailing in a high speed multihull " In a nutshell " . Cheers from " down under " Barry .
When you have a boat whose polar diagram shows a great big bulge in the broad reaching sector ( in my case a Hobie 17 ) , the velocity made good directly downwind is greater when broad reaching than sailing dead before the breeze . One of my other boats ( this one is a Hobie 14 ) does not have the same performance in this sector and sailing directly downwind produces a better VMG downwind than when broad reaching . One must realise that in order to make broad reaching the better option , you really have to concentrate and work hard to keep the apparent wind at the right angle of attack ! (that is directly amidships )As your boat accelerates in a gust , the appatent wind moves toward the head of your boat and you can sail a broader reach , but when you sail through the gust and your boat slows down , you must head up as the apparent wind moves back towards the true wind ( the apparent wind and the true wind are the same if your boat stops ) . To monitor this effect , I tie a piece of audio recorder tape to each of my lower forestays around 4 ft up from the bows and making them around 3 ft long they stretch across and almost touch the other forestay . The best apparent wind direction for broad reaching is directly abeam , so I simply steer my boat around to keep the windward tape pointing directly across to the other stay . As I slow down the tape streams forward of the leeward stay and I have to head up to bring it back in line . Conversly as I speed up the tape end moves aft of abeam and I have to bear away to bring it back in line . There you have it - downwind sailing in a high speed multihull " In a nutshell " . Cheers from " down under " Barry .
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Out on a wing
I love Wing and Wing when sailing down wind. It came natural to me the firs time (sailing a 27 foot Catalina. It did help using a boom-vang cleated to the rail on the Port side and running the Jib out the Starbord side. I found keeping more wind in the main than in the jib helped a great deal. I found having had the boat adjusted with a little more weather helm than some may like also helped to keep the sials full and the boat more responsive to the helm. It also helped to keep more air in the sails. (just a little more hook at the top of the main made all the difference) Have aGreat Day
I love Wing and Wing when sailing down wind. It came natural to me the firs time (sailing a 27 foot Catalina. It did help using a boom-vang cleated to the rail on the Port side and running the Jib out the Starbord side. I found keeping more wind in the main than in the jib helped a great deal. I found having had the boat adjusted with a little more weather helm than some may like also helped to keep the sials full and the boat more responsive to the helm. It also helped to keep more air in the sails. (just a little more hook at the top of the main made all the difference) Have aGreat Day
Don't
Anything more than 160 degrees off the wind is too slow. Usually we sail at 160 off with a gennaker, and jibe as needed. Kevin
Anything more than 160 degrees off the wind is too slow. Usually we sail at 160 off with a gennaker, and jibe as needed. Kevin
Downwind
Sailing downwind - especially with a B/R rig, and double especially when single handing - is best accomplished with twin head sails. Twin head sails (150s are great )are easily flown together when the head stay has twin slots. Use identical jibs, each stabalized with a pole fixed to an eye on the mast and a down-haul on the pole. The main is lowered completely. This rig is simple to handle, gives maximum use of the following wind up to 60 degrees off either side of the stern. To come into a broad reach or beat, simply release one pole and let the windward jib lie right into the leward jib. Leave it there if running downwind is to be resumed soon. If not, it is a simple matter to lower the inside jib to the deck, leaving the working sail in place. Have made many a single-handed cruise (City Island to the Race) on Long Island Sound with this rig - especially at night, when the wind tends to stay constant once it sets in. Although have not personally done it, understand this is a favorite off-shore downwind rig.
Sailing downwind - especially with a B/R rig, and double especially when single handing - is best accomplished with twin head sails. Twin head sails (150s are great )are easily flown together when the head stay has twin slots. Use identical jibs, each stabalized with a pole fixed to an eye on the mast and a down-haul on the pole. The main is lowered completely. This rig is simple to handle, gives maximum use of the following wind up to 60 degrees off either side of the stern. To come into a broad reach or beat, simply release one pole and let the windward jib lie right into the leward jib. Leave it there if running downwind is to be resumed soon. If not, it is a simple matter to lower the inside jib to the deck, leaving the working sail in place. Have made many a single-handed cruise (City Island to the Race) on Long Island Sound with this rig - especially at night, when the wind tends to stay constant once it sets in. Although have not personally done it, understand this is a favorite off-shore downwind rig.
bad advice, again
boats tend to wallow DDW in wind over 10 knots apparent when running under a spinnaker without a main or when running wing on wing with the main sailing by the lee. once you're wallowing, you're one gust away from what we call a death roll, and if you are using a preventer (or worse yet, a vang on the rail)to keep the main by the lee you stand a very good chance of losing the rig during a death roll. inexperienced sailors should understand two things: these are small-boat tactics for use only in light air; expert sailors don't need to resort to preventors to sail wing on wing. learn to do it right and you won't have to endanger your rig. otherwise, if you death roll with the preventor on, either the boom explodes or the mast will snap at the gooseneck when the boom submerges. the advice to use the vang as a preventor is just plain bad: you won't be able to depower the main by blowing the vang should you get hit by a gust. not smart. remember, once your rudder comes out of the water during a roundup the only way to regain control is by blowing the vang. similarly, running a chute without a main means that you won't have the main's wind shadow to tuck the chute behind should you suddenly need to control it. on a big boat you can't control a chute by rudder alone unless the wind is very light. using small boat downwind tactics in any sort of wind is going to result in gear failure sooner or later. if you're determined to sail DDW, especially offshore, a far better solution is to go with double headsails. the only time when a preventer is called for is when you're in light air and the swells are big enough to cause unwanted gybes; at that point it's almost always preferable, both in terms of crew comfort and VMG, to reach rather han run.
boats tend to wallow DDW in wind over 10 knots apparent when running under a spinnaker without a main or when running wing on wing with the main sailing by the lee. once you're wallowing, you're one gust away from what we call a death roll, and if you are using a preventer (or worse yet, a vang on the rail)to keep the main by the lee you stand a very good chance of losing the rig during a death roll. inexperienced sailors should understand two things: these are small-boat tactics for use only in light air; expert sailors don't need to resort to preventors to sail wing on wing. learn to do it right and you won't have to endanger your rig. otherwise, if you death roll with the preventor on, either the boom explodes or the mast will snap at the gooseneck when the boom submerges. the advice to use the vang as a preventor is just plain bad: you won't be able to depower the main by blowing the vang should you get hit by a gust. not smart. remember, once your rudder comes out of the water during a roundup the only way to regain control is by blowing the vang. similarly, running a chute without a main means that you won't have the main's wind shadow to tuck the chute behind should you suddenly need to control it. on a big boat you can't control a chute by rudder alone unless the wind is very light. using small boat downwind tactics in any sort of wind is going to result in gear failure sooner or later. if you're determined to sail DDW, especially offshore, a far better solution is to go with double headsails. the only time when a preventer is called for is when you're in light air and the swells are big enough to cause unwanted gybes; at that point it's almost always preferable, both in terms of crew comfort and VMG, to reach rather han run.
two choices
Depending on the wind direction, and available crew, I make one of two choices. I'm assuming I'm on a deep broad reach instead of dead downwind, because my sweptback spreaders don't do very well on a run. Given this, if I'm by myself or have inexperienced crew, or the downwind direction on the river limits the time I will spend on any given tack, I will just fly the main and genoa. But if I've got some experienced crew aboard and the wind direction and strength will allow me to run up or down the river under control, I break out the Gennaker. I think if I were sailing in more open waters, I'd have the Gennaker out more often. It is a blast to sail with frequent surfing off of waves. :<)
Depending on the wind direction, and available crew, I make one of two choices. I'm assuming I'm on a deep broad reach instead of dead downwind, because my sweptback spreaders don't do very well on a run. Given this, if I'm by myself or have inexperienced crew, or the downwind direction on the river limits the time I will spend on any given tack, I will just fly the main and genoa. But if I've got some experienced crew aboard and the wind direction and strength will allow me to run up or down the river under control, I break out the Gennaker. I think if I were sailing in more open waters, I'd have the Gennaker out more often. It is a blast to sail with frequent surfing off of waves. :<)
Rick Dinon: Thank you and I'm glad you liked my book. I wrote it with the beginner to intermediate in mind. Most of the other sail trim books deal with all sorts of stuff, like sail and hull construction and on and on. All I wanted to learn was how to sail the boat, not build one! Also, the information on each sail trim control was all over the place. For example, the outhaul might be on pages 5,35,65,125 and 322. I took all the outhaul information from all the books, video and sailing articles and condensed it on one page. I did the same for all the sail trim controls for the main and jib also. Everything is in plain, simple English so even I can understand it.
39 days at sea - 12 downwind days
This summer we spent 39 days at sea. We (initially) had difficulty running downwind, and we had to spend a signifigant amount of time (12 days) doing so. After much experimentation, we found that when the wind was too strong for the asymetrical spinnaker, the best results were had with our genoa (on roller furler) poled out with a whisker pole. We were able to maintain our course under gps and autopilot (small autohelm st1000+ which requires good sail balance to keep a decent cross track error) for many, many hours away from the helm. We had consistant speeds of 5.8-6.3 knots with bursts to 7+ in wind strengths from 18-20kt to 25 with gusts to 30. The trick was to keep the sail from twisting too much (twisting causes a horrible rolling motion of the vessel), while allowing it to bag out enough to catch the wind and hold it, while at the same time preventing it from banging and crashing around when we come down off a wave crest. The whisker pole made things soooo easy! We used a tiny cheap pole that was of the twist lock adjustable type. Of course, wing on wing with one on whisker is the best option, but it was not available for us at the time. Note that we are distance cruisers, not racers. For us the method that involves the least amount of effort to sail the vessel is best, as fatigue is a constant problem when sailing offshore in a small (26ft) vessel. Also; what works for our boat (balboa 26) may not work for another. Every vessel balances and functions differently with different sail configurations, and on different points of sail. Experimentation is the best way to learn! Questions? Comments? e-mail: farmer2@nexicom.net
This summer we spent 39 days at sea. We (initially) had difficulty running downwind, and we had to spend a signifigant amount of time (12 days) doing so. After much experimentation, we found that when the wind was too strong for the asymetrical spinnaker, the best results were had with our genoa (on roller furler) poled out with a whisker pole. We were able to maintain our course under gps and autopilot (small autohelm st1000+ which requires good sail balance to keep a decent cross track error) for many, many hours away from the helm. We had consistant speeds of 5.8-6.3 knots with bursts to 7+ in wind strengths from 18-20kt to 25 with gusts to 30. The trick was to keep the sail from twisting too much (twisting causes a horrible rolling motion of the vessel), while allowing it to bag out enough to catch the wind and hold it, while at the same time preventing it from banging and crashing around when we come down off a wave crest. The whisker pole made things soooo easy! We used a tiny cheap pole that was of the twist lock adjustable type. Of course, wing on wing with one on whisker is the best option, but it was not available for us at the time. Note that we are distance cruisers, not racers. For us the method that involves the least amount of effort to sail the vessel is best, as fatigue is a constant problem when sailing offshore in a small (26ft) vessel. Also; what works for our boat (balboa 26) may not work for another. Every vessel balances and functions differently with different sail configurations, and on different points of sail. Experimentation is the best way to learn! Questions? Comments? e-mail: farmer2@nexicom.net
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Downwind............. Who cares
I think going downwind is just part of sailing, although people who come along don't really like it, because ita like being in a dead space with no wind except you are moving and on a lake on a 100 degree afternoon in California it can be quite hot......... So tell them to go jump in the lake.......LOL
I think going downwind is just part of sailing, although people who come along don't really like it, because ita like being in a dead space with no wind except you are moving and on a lake on a 100 degree afternoon in California it can be quite hot......... So tell them to go jump in the lake.......LOL
Downwind
Downwind: 1. A big genoa. 2. Wing on wing is fun. Watch the jibe. 3. A spinnaker, (with crew)
Downwind: 1. A big genoa. 2. Wing on wing is fun. Watch the jibe. 3. A spinnaker, (with crew)
Downwind tips
Contrary to popular belief, running downwind does provide lift to your sails, so watch their trim. Try sailing 5 to 10 degrees off the wind on the favored tack. You'll get better speed, handling and comfort. Don't forget about your preventers.
Contrary to popular belief, running downwind does provide lift to your sails, so watch their trim. Try sailing 5 to 10 degrees off the wind on the favored tack. You'll get better speed, handling and comfort. Don't forget about your preventers.
Whisker is The Answer
When running down wind I found that a rigid whisker pole is great for wing on wing. It dramatically increases the angle of available wind. Also with my 260 and smaller boats with retractible center boards raising the center board reduces drag.
When running down wind I found that a rigid whisker pole is great for wing on wing. It dramatically increases the angle of available wind. Also with my 260 and smaller boats with retractible center boards raising the center board reduces drag.
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