Novices always think sailing downwind ought to be the easiest and fastest point of sail, which is of course far from the truth. The absence of lift slows the boat. Running slows the apparent wind. Little or no heel takes some of the spice from sailing. And sail setting is problematic, too. Frequently the main blankets a foresail causing it to collapse. Wing and wing is always a tender option with a narrow angle of effectiveness. And spinnakers are an adventure unto themselves. Sometimes jibing off broad reaches seems the best way to get to your downwind destination. What downwind strategy works best on your boat? Share your views here then vote in the Quick Quiz at the bottom of the home page. (Quiz contributed by Gary Wyngarden)
- Status
I use a gennaker...
and main. Dead down or reach, works great and easy to handle. Linkage to my web pics below. Cheers, Bob
and main. Dead down or reach, works great and easy to handle. Linkage to my web pics below. Cheers, Bob
Attachments
Use the Genny
Until I am able to purchase an asymetrical, I will continue to use the 135% Genoa for downwind. It is more efficient than using the main alone, and is easier to tend, allowing for hands free sailing (and no worries about accidental gibes.) I noticed this was not an option in the questionair, but it is what I see the most when I am on the river. Of course, the boats with the spinakers pass me by, but I usually catch the boats using only main sails (or trying to wing & wing, unless they are using a whisker pole.) I've tried the broad reach tactic, but with the current of the river, you sometimes do a lot of sailing but don't get anywhere. We were sailing our 31ft Catalina yesterday downwind in 20 knot winds with only the headsail and were logging sustained 6 knot boatspeed (with the current, so probably more like 7 knots) and it was great fun.
Until I am able to purchase an asymetrical, I will continue to use the 135% Genoa for downwind. It is more efficient than using the main alone, and is easier to tend, allowing for hands free sailing (and no worries about accidental gibes.) I noticed this was not an option in the questionair, but it is what I see the most when I am on the river. Of course, the boats with the spinakers pass me by, but I usually catch the boats using only main sails (or trying to wing & wing, unless they are using a whisker pole.) I've tried the broad reach tactic, but with the current of the river, you sometimes do a lot of sailing but don't get anywhere. We were sailing our 31ft Catalina yesterday downwind in 20 knot winds with only the headsail and were logging sustained 6 knot boatspeed (with the current, so probably more like 7 knots) and it was great fun.
Lower the main etc.
I have had very little luck sailing on a run. I suspect that the boat in the photo wiht the Jenniker is on a broad reach. However it has been recommended to me that I double reef the main so it doesn't blanket my asymetrical spinnaker or break down and buy a whisker pole. Why are those things so mind boggelingly expensive?!
I have had very little luck sailing on a run. I suspect that the boat in the photo wiht the Jenniker is on a broad reach. However it has been recommended to me that I double reef the main so it doesn't blanket my asymetrical spinnaker or break down and buy a whisker pole. Why are those things so mind boggelingly expensive?!
Preventer
We have a 4.6 nm run downwind to our marina from the main section of San Francisco Bay. We rig a preventer on the boom to port, and leave the jib (110% in winter, 85% in summer) up on starboard. Because of the direction of the channel (the Oakland Estuary), and the relation to the usual westerly winds, this works 88.67%
of the time. We can then sail by the lee without fear of a jibe, which keeps the jib full without needing to use a pole. It's a great way to end a day: 20 or more quiet minutes of warm, flat, comfortable and safe sailing. We're obviously in no hurry - want to extend a great day as long as possible. The preventer is simple to set up and take down. It consists of the four part vang-type tackle we use for the cunningham. Each of the blocks has a snap shackle. The upper shackle connects to a boom bail, and the lower goes to the bottom of one of the shrouds. The line is always led back to the cockpit, so we can adjust the traveller, mainsheet, rigid vang and preventer line to balance the boom location and line forces and shape the main as the wind speed dictates.
We have a 4.6 nm run downwind to our marina from the main section of San Francisco Bay. We rig a preventer on the boom to port, and leave the jib (110% in winter, 85% in summer) up on starboard. Because of the direction of the channel (the Oakland Estuary), and the relation to the usual westerly winds, this works 88.67%
of the time. We can then sail by the lee without fear of a jibe, which keeps the jib full without needing to use a pole. It's a great way to end a day: 20 or more quiet minutes of warm, flat, comfortable and safe sailing. We're obviously in no hurry - want to extend a great day as long as possible. The preventer is simple to set up and take down. It consists of the four part vang-type tackle we use for the cunningham. Each of the blocks has a snap shackle. The upper shackle connects to a boom bail, and the lower goes to the bottom of one of the shrouds. The line is always led back to the cockpit, so we can adjust the traveller, mainsheet, rigid vang and preventer line to balance the boom location and line forces and shape the main as the wind speed dictates.Downwind tougher with B&R Rig
I like my Hunter 326, but direct downwind is tough because of the B&R rig. Can't let the main all the way out, and the small jib gets blanketed. I use a gennaker when I have time, but even then I can't have the main up or it will blanket the gennaker. I used to have a smaller boat and had a whisker pole for the genoa. That worked amazingly well.
I like my Hunter 326, but direct downwind is tough because of the B&R rig. Can't let the main all the way out, and the small jib gets blanketed. I use a gennaker when I have time, but even then I can't have the main up or it will blanket the gennaker. I used to have a smaller boat and had a whisker pole for the genoa. That worked amazingly well.
Down Wind
With the B&R rig it is best to tack down wind as it the boom does not go out all the way and it blankets the jib. This is the compromise of using this design and results in poor down wind performance. I use the main and try to stay on a broad reach and jibe when i need to. Len Fagan "Tale Winds"
With the B&R rig it is best to tack down wind as it the boom does not go out all the way and it blankets the jib. This is the compromise of using this design and results in poor down wind performance. I use the main and try to stay on a broad reach and jibe when i need to. Len Fagan "Tale Winds"
B&R Rig Down Wind
My buddy Pete has the perfect solution for downwind sailing with the B&R Rig on his hunter 336. He never hoists his sails and he lets his dodger and bimini act as a scoop for the wind to push him along. Of course he only did this once when he left the dock but it seemed to be effective for him. He only sails within a mile of the dock so a nice leisurely sail under dodger and bimini downwind provides for about 2 hours of relaxation at about a half knot. dave
My buddy Pete has the perfect solution for downwind sailing with the B&R Rig on his hunter 336. He never hoists his sails and he lets his dodger and bimini act as a scoop for the wind to push him along. Of course he only did this once when he left the dock but it seemed to be effective for him. He only sails within a mile of the dock so a nice leisurely sail under dodger and bimini downwind provides for about 2 hours of relaxation at about a half knot. dave
Wing-on-wing poled-out jibs good offshore option
As discussed in the short HOW photoforum article linked to below, wing-on-wing poled-out jibs are an attractive alternative for long trips within +/- 25 degrees or so of DDW (that is, IF you happen to sail a cutter or staysail sloop). I fondly remember days of effortless DDW tradewind sailing without ever being reminded of the inherent downwind limitations of B&R rigs. For relatively short trips, setting up well-stayed whiskerpoles is too much work for an increasingly lazy sailor like me. Note that a properly reefed and flattened main can be kept up to reduce rolling. Also, one should seriously consider the use of running backstays with this set-up. BTW, Phil, the old photofoum link shows a damaged jpeg image on my browser, so I am re-submitting the wing-on-wing picture here. Have fun! Flying Dutchman Rivendel II (Legend 43 staysail sloop)
As discussed in the short HOW photoforum article linked to below, wing-on-wing poled-out jibs are an attractive alternative for long trips within +/- 25 degrees or so of DDW (that is, IF you happen to sail a cutter or staysail sloop). I fondly remember days of effortless DDW tradewind sailing without ever being reminded of the inherent downwind limitations of B&R rigs. For relatively short trips, setting up well-stayed whiskerpoles is too much work for an increasingly lazy sailor like me. Note that a properly reefed and flattened main can be kept up to reduce rolling. Also, one should seriously consider the use of running backstays with this set-up. BTW, Phil, the old photofoum link shows a damaged jpeg image on my browser, so I am re-submitting the wing-on-wing picture here. Have fun! Flying Dutchman Rivendel II (Legend 43 staysail sloop)
Attachments
Downwind
In ten knots of wind or less, I drop the main, hoist the gennaker on the leeward side and pole the genoa out to windward. The twins pull like a locomotive. In higher winds, it depends on a few things; who I have as crew and what's the destination. Singlehanding or with wife, I'll usually crack off onto a broad reach and jibe down. If I have the boys along, I'll set the pole. I ran DDW, wing-and-wing, for 60 hours in 16-20 knots of wind in Mexico once. The gennaker halyard had gone up the mast. One of the most glorious sails of my life.
In ten knots of wind or less, I drop the main, hoist the gennaker on the leeward side and pole the genoa out to windward. The twins pull like a locomotive. In higher winds, it depends on a few things; who I have as crew and what's the destination. Singlehanding or with wife, I'll usually crack off onto a broad reach and jibe down. If I have the boys along, I'll set the pole. I ran DDW, wing-and-wing, for 60 hours in 16-20 knots of wind in Mexico once. The gennaker halyard had gone up the mast. One of the most glorious sails of my life.
Dead Downwind
They don't call it "dead downwind" for nothing! Also, ever thought about where the name "boom" came from? My favorite method of sailing downwind is with a spinnaker, preferably at least 30-degrees off DDW an preferably 50 or 60-degrees of DDW. This shows the maximum sail area on our Legend 35 and we really scoot! We've been at 8 knots more times than I can count and at 10 knots on several occasions. We don't use a douser so takedowns require blanketing the spinnaker with the main and ensuring it doesn't take wind again. I don't like DDW with the 110 jib. With the 150 sheeted out to the toerail with a snatch block it's okay. When following a channel it's generally not possbile to tack downwind.
They don't call it "dead downwind" for nothing! Also, ever thought about where the name "boom" came from? My favorite method of sailing downwind is with a spinnaker, preferably at least 30-degrees off DDW an preferably 50 or 60-degrees of DDW. This shows the maximum sail area on our Legend 35 and we really scoot! We've been at 8 knots more times than I can count and at 10 knots on several occasions. We don't use a douser so takedowns require blanketing the spinnaker with the main and ensuring it doesn't take wind again. I don't like DDW with the 110 jib. With the 150 sheeted out to the toerail with a snatch block it's okay. When following a channel it's generally not possbile to tack downwind.
Easing the Gennaker halyard...
Easing the Gennaker halyard or the tack line helps to rotate the Gennaker to windward in a run and prevents blanketing by the mainsail (See picture). Alternatively, one can jibe the main and keep the Gennaker wing on wing. My experience im my B361 has been that both methods work but require constant attention. Lately, I have experimented using the spinnaker pole to windward and setting the Gennaker as a spinnaker. Although setting the pole requires some work, I found that it pays for a long run since it makes the Gennaker far more stable than either of the two other alternatives. I also found that going from Gennaker to Spinnaker setting can easily be done with the Gennaker up by attaching an afterguy to the tack of the Gennaker, passing it through the pole and trimming it while gradually easing the original tack line. I keep the boom preventer tight at all times.
Easing the Gennaker halyard or the tack line helps to rotate the Gennaker to windward in a run and prevents blanketing by the mainsail (See picture). Alternatively, one can jibe the main and keep the Gennaker wing on wing. My experience im my B361 has been that both methods work but require constant attention. Lately, I have experimented using the spinnaker pole to windward and setting the Gennaker as a spinnaker. Although setting the pole requires some work, I found that it pays for a long run since it makes the Gennaker far more stable than either of the two other alternatives. I also found that going from Gennaker to Spinnaker setting can easily be done with the Gennaker up by attaching an afterguy to the tack of the Gennaker, passing it through the pole and trimming it while gradually easing the original tack line. I keep the boom preventer tight at all times.
Attachments
Depends on conditions
Course is straight downwind, winds 10 to 20, waves allow reasonable control - Wing and Wing with the 110 genny and preventer. We made 5-6 knots for the 20 mile trip to Cleveland on Labor Day. Light winds 4-10 knots - asymetric spinnaker and main to gybe downwind about 140 degrees off the wind. We can make 3-4 knots in 4-7 knots of wind. This is much better than dead downwind at 2-3 knots, drawing flies and cooking in the low relative wind. David Lady Lillie '77h27
Course is straight downwind, winds 10 to 20, waves allow reasonable control - Wing and Wing with the 110 genny and preventer. We made 5-6 knots for the 20 mile trip to Cleveland on Labor Day. Light winds 4-10 knots - asymetric spinnaker and main to gybe downwind about 140 degrees off the wind. We can make 3-4 knots in 4-7 knots of wind. This is much better than dead downwind at 2-3 knots, drawing flies and cooking in the low relative wind. David Lady Lillie '77h27
Depends on the crew
and wind strength, but usually I use both sails and jib off of reaches. My crews are generally passengers (non-sailors) and generally out for a nice sail, and do not particularly enjoy the constant tweaking and attention a wing and wing set up requires. I don't even own a spinnaker. On those rare occasions when I have fellow sailors aboard who enjoy playing with the sails and rigging, we will try to coax more speed by furling the main, rolling up the 100% jib, and flying the 150 genny alone. With the centerboard on my Oday 23 up, I have found this to be the best configuration for dead downwind sailing.
and wind strength, but usually I use both sails and jib off of reaches. My crews are generally passengers (non-sailors) and generally out for a nice sail, and do not particularly enjoy the constant tweaking and attention a wing and wing set up requires. I don't even own a spinnaker. On those rare occasions when I have fellow sailors aboard who enjoy playing with the sails and rigging, we will try to coax more speed by furling the main, rolling up the 100% jib, and flying the 150 genny alone. With the centerboard on my Oday 23 up, I have found this to be the best configuration for dead downwind sailing.
Downwind
I sail the angles downwind to keep both sails full. Wing on wing is to tedious for me, I am 64 years old and sail my Irwin 10/4 for pleasure not speed. For speed I have a DN iceboat, Hobie 17, and a modern wind surfer. The 17 and the sailboard I use at least twice a week.
I sail the angles downwind to keep both sails full. Wing on wing is to tedious for me, I am 64 years old and sail my Irwin 10/4 for pleasure not speed. For speed I have a DN iceboat, Hobie 17, and a modern wind surfer. The 17 and the sailboard I use at least twice a week.
A new idea?
Gary Hoyt has developed a jib boom that is supposed to be an after-market option available soon. From what I understand, his self-tacking jib boom addresses all the issues you raised. Has anyone had experience with this rig?
Gary Hoyt has developed a jib boom that is supposed to be an after-market option available soon. From what I understand, his self-tacking jib boom addresses all the issues you raised. Has anyone had experience with this rig?
Downwind sailing
I added a short bowsprit to the boat that allows an asymmetrical spinnaker (in a chutescoop)to be easily hoisted, gybed, and dropped. It is easily done with 2 people; I have sailed singlehanded with the spinnaker numerous times with no great difficulty. Light air gybes are OK singlehanded. Heavier air gybes are best done by dousing, gybing, and redeploying the spinnaker. No need to burn fuel to make time downwind!
I added a short bowsprit to the boat that allows an asymmetrical spinnaker (in a chutescoop)to be easily hoisted, gybed, and dropped. It is easily done with 2 people; I have sailed singlehanded with the spinnaker numerous times with no great difficulty. Light air gybes are OK singlehanded. Heavier air gybes are best done by dousing, gybing, and redeploying the spinnaker. No need to burn fuel to make time downwind!
Downwind sailing
Depending on the wind and waves: Up to 18 knots apparent, Dead down wind +/- 10degrees....Wing and wing...preventer on the boom, Telescoping pole on the jib..If no pole, bring the jib clew relatively close to the shrouds to prevent excessive flapping. When wind and waves are more intense, to prevent broaching, reef the main, or no main at all....take in the jib depending on how high the winds are... I've found that broad reaching downwind wastes a lot of time..you don't get down wind enough to justify the time spent in very windy weather...
Depending on the wind and waves: Up to 18 knots apparent, Dead down wind +/- 10degrees....Wing and wing...preventer on the boom, Telescoping pole on the jib..If no pole, bring the jib clew relatively close to the shrouds to prevent excessive flapping. When wind and waves are more intense, to prevent broaching, reef the main, or no main at all....take in the jib depending on how high the winds are... I've found that broad reaching downwind wastes a lot of time..you don't get down wind enough to justify the time spent in very windy weather...
Sailing Downwind
I certainly agree with other articles that downwind sailing techniques vary depending on conditions, crew, and attitude. On my Hunter 37.5, if the seas are quartering, I would have to tack downwind, because I could never keep the sails filled with wing and wing. If seas are light, or dead astern, I would go wing and wing...its easier. I have no spinnaker, but will set the whisker pole if going for a while. I will relocate the boom vang from the base of the mast to the rail to secure the boom, I just need to be careful. Crew would certainly help decide whether I use the pole, etc. Wing and wing can be performed from the cockpit on my boat, only with two people. I prefer no restraints such as whisker poles or relocated boom vang if I am sailing relaxed since attention to steering is so critical and messing up can be ugly. Sailing in Mobile Bay is always tacking down the bay, and broad reaching or sailing downwind back home. Steve Zito
I certainly agree with other articles that downwind sailing techniques vary depending on conditions, crew, and attitude. On my Hunter 37.5, if the seas are quartering, I would have to tack downwind, because I could never keep the sails filled with wing and wing. If seas are light, or dead astern, I would go wing and wing...its easier. I have no spinnaker, but will set the whisker pole if going for a while. I will relocate the boom vang from the base of the mast to the rail to secure the boom, I just need to be careful. Crew would certainly help decide whether I use the pole, etc. Wing and wing can be performed from the cockpit on my boat, only with two people. I prefer no restraints such as whisker poles or relocated boom vang if I am sailing relaxed since attention to steering is so critical and messing up can be ugly. Sailing in Mobile Bay is always tacking down the bay, and broad reaching or sailing downwind back home. Steve Zito
Running Downhill
Wing on wing with the main and 150 fully deployed seems a great point of sail for our 25 c/b. We enjoy it on the way back to the mooring because it allows us to liesurely get the boat in shape for leaving when we get there. With the c/b up I also don't need to worry so much about honoring the channel which gives us more options depending on the wind direction. We do use a preventer and a whisker pole when necessary, though with some judicious hand holding of the genoa sheets, I seem to be able to keep the genny full most of the time. We've also seen our best over the bottom speed to date on a downwind run. With the current through a gut (3-4 knots of flow) and dead down wind in about 15 knots we've touched 6.5 on the GPS. Our passengers that day were psyched, one of them is now convinced he wants to sail more. Geof
Wing on wing with the main and 150 fully deployed seems a great point of sail for our 25 c/b. We enjoy it on the way back to the mooring because it allows us to liesurely get the boat in shape for leaving when we get there. With the c/b up I also don't need to worry so much about honoring the channel which gives us more options depending on the wind direction. We do use a preventer and a whisker pole when necessary, though with some judicious hand holding of the genoa sheets, I seem to be able to keep the genny full most of the time. We've also seen our best over the bottom speed to date on a downwind run. With the current through a gut (3-4 knots of flow) and dead down wind in about 15 knots we've touched 6.5 on the GPS. Our passengers that day were psyched, one of them is now convinced he wants to sail more. Geof
- Status