Rule of the road question.

[kpgraci]

Two sailboats on the same tack (port), one upwind (me), the other downwind but further in front. Distance apart appox 100yds.

In this case, upwind is giveway, downwind is stand on. The upwind vessel is several boat-lengths behind the downwind, but not overtaking.

The downwind vessel then executes a starboard tack which puts its course across the bow of the port tack upwind vessel.

Now the starboard tack vessel is the stand on vessel, so I (glaring) turned downwind to avoid a near miss.

My question - should the downwind vessel have tacked while I was in this position? :naughty:

 

[DougM]

Tacking vessel should have assured himself of clear distance to cross the port tack vessel. A hundred yards is a bit tight for him to complete a tack to starboard and be fully up to speed to cross. Being the leeward boat does not give him the right to create a potential collision situation. In a race, the leeward boat abeam can force the windward boat up, and potentially force him to tack, but not necessarily from a hundred yards ahead. Anyway, in that tacking situation, the port tack boat in self defense is either going to have to tack or duck the stern of the boat that just tacked onto starboard. The port tack boat is the burdened boat despite the lack of forethought on the part of the skipper of the tacking boat. That's my opinion and I would be interested in what others think as well.

 

[thinwater]

Two sailboats on the same tack (port), one upwind (me), the other downwind but further in front. Distance apart appox 100yds.

In this case, upwind is giveway, downwind is stand on. The upwind vessel is several boat-lengths behind the downwind, but not overtaking.

The downwind vessel then executes a starboard tack which puts its course across the bow of the port tack upwind vessel.

Now the starboard tack vessel is the stand on vessel, so I (glaring) turned downwind to avoid a near miss.

My question - should the downwind vessel have tacked while I was in this position? :naughty:

Please read a book on sailboat racing; this is all in there and your nomenclature is a bit non-conventional. "Positioning" is a good choice; there are many others.

Are you asking whether he complied with the rules or whether it was polite? These are 2 very different questions. Yes (as I understood your question), and perhaps not. But is ducking a stern when you're day sailing a matter of any importance? Not really.

As a racer, you tack on top of port tack boats with gusto. As a day sailor, it's polite and safe to get clear before tacking.

 

[kloudie1]

Exactly.. he was and continued to be the stand on vessel.. should he have done that??.. only if yall was racin' ..Other consideration.. the rules technically do not come into play until there is a risk of collision.. (from the Chapman's) My understanding is that originally there was no risk of collision.. after the other guy tacked.. then the rules come to bear.. He must be a frustrated racer that decided to show ya how spiffy-ly he could sail.. and he probably is a donkey at least, or, that close cousin, a jackass.

 

[Ross]

Sometimes they just don't think very far ahead. I had a sailing school boat sail across the marked channel ahead of me ( i was motoring) travel a couple of hundred feet and turn and sail back on a beam reach. We were on a collision course and I turned and went under his stern. When I got home I emailed the school and told them of the incident and assured them that I knew that he was within his rights to sail in the manner that he did. But that it was completely unnecessary because it is a very big sailing area and he was not constrained by draft. I never received a reply but I haven't seen it happen again. Now the sailing instructors head for a quiet area some distance from the traffic.

 

[kpgraci]

As a racer, you tack on top of port tack boats with gusto. As a day sailor, it's polite and safe to get clear before tacking.

This was not a race.

My thought is that as the downwind stand on vessel - he should have done just that - stood on - not make a maneuver that would lead to a collision except for evasive action of the other boat.

 

[Manureva]

you are confusing, where you folowing or being followed, the boat in front has priority and the follower has to stear clear of him

 

[kpgraci]

you are confusing, where you folowing or being followed, the boat in front has priority and the follower has to stear clear of him

He overtook me, passed me at a safe distance on my downwind side, then when in front, tacked in front of me. A collision was not imminent, but he was clearly on a collision course. I do not believe it was malicious, I do not believe he thought anything of it (which is part of my problem) - he had ample crew, maybe 5 or 6. I'm positive he knew my position, course and speed. After he tacked I waited about 45 seconds or so to see if this was his final course and if he had any intention of turning. I understood then as now that technically I was the give way vessel, but is it not also true there is no assumed right of way, just stand on and give way - and all vessels are required to avoid a collision?

I don't want to appear that I'm overly upset over this, I do not normally sail in congested areas, and if this is a cultural sailing/racing/guy thing, no problem - I'm down with it - I was just under the impression I was supposed to avoid running into the other boats on the water.

 

[kloudie1]

Repeat after me: Not all the jackasses are in powerboats..

Go channel 16 and say something like "Kinda close for a tack there, Captn'"

 

[Ross]

Ever had someone pass you on the road only to turn into a driveway a hundred yards down the road. Same thing, no fore thought, no plannning, just impulsive

 

[Rick486]

C'mon guys. We're talking 22 ft boats here. Not megayachts. So we head off a bit. Big deal.

 

[kpgraci]

C'mon guys. We're talking 22 ft boats here. Not megayachts. So we head off a bit. Big deal.

I agree. However as a parting thought I submit that it is not wise to take an action that forces the other guy to react - what if I were asleep at the wheel? or dead at the wheel? who knows. I had to turn to avoid an impending collision, which was not impending until he made his turn - and if he didn't know it, then he really is an idiot. (His boat cost a whole lot more than mine )

So I guess the consensus is - it happens all the time, get over it. OK.

Anyone know where I can get one of those Greek navel rams?

 

[Old Sailor 2]

I agree with Rick that we head off a bit and no biggie. But here is an interesting twist. it has been a long time since I raced but it seems I remember that the tack is not established until completed and fully underway. In other words the stand on vessel on port tack who tacks loses his favored position (leeward vessel) once he tacks until the starboard tack is completely established. Am I dreaming things or has my old mind hit on something?

 

[Rick486]

In order to avoid a Bravo flag and a protest hearing, while racing you must complete the tack with the jib sheeted in, making way, with time remaining for the port tack vessel to avoid the collision, i.e. "..don't tack too close...".

 

[kpgraci]

Go channel 16 and say something like "Kinda close for a tack there, Captn'"

I always forget about the radio...it's always on but I've never made a call on it.

On my way out that day (yesterday, a very nice day) I was passed rather close by a really nice, really big motor yacht, he hailed me as he passed to let me know he was passing on my port - well gee, it was hard to miss you, but thanks for the call.

 

[LuzSD]

Please read a book on sailboat racing; this is all in there and your nomenclature is a bit non-conventional. "Positioning" is a good choice; there are many others.




geez Thinwater, you make casually asking a question pretty tough.... we could all go read many books on sailboat racing and skip this site altogether, but without being qualified as all experts, I think there might be room for some questions to be asked without perfect word choice.

I hate to think that I need may sailing terminology book next to me in order to communicate here.

 

[Joe]

There could be any number of reasons that the other boat tacked, a sea wall, bouy, another boat, wind shift etc.... all covered in the rules of racing. The bottom line is that once he turned he was on starboard and he gave you plenty of room to avoid him by simply dipping below his stern.... right. So that becomes your responsibility. Now if he had turned in such a manner as to force you into tacking also, or stopping, then he would not have given you enough room to maintain your course and you might call foul... but then again, you're not racing. So...... chill out... you can't control the other guy... only yourself.

 

[Manureva]

ok so he over took you and then cut you off....sound like a case of idiot at the wheel (and i say idiot because i wont use other words), clearly overtaking you, he had to give you priority, then he thaugth he could cut you because you had been overtook, really if he would have been a little curteous he would have overtaken you from the side he intended to tack on after overtaking you... he would have had a nice blast of horn and a finger sign from me...

 

[RON20406]

Sometimes they just don't think very far ahead. I had a sailing school boat sail across the marked channel ahead of me ( i was motoring) travel a couple of hundred feet and turn and sail back on a beam reach. We were on a collision course and I turned and went under his stern. When I got home I emailed the school and told them of the incident and assured them that I knew that he was within his rights to sail in the manner that he did. But that it was completely unnecessary because it is a very big sailing area and he was not constrained by draft. I never received a reply but I haven't seen it happen again. Now the sailing instructors head for a quiet area some distance from the traffic.

Ross is absolutely correct and irrespective of "Rules of the Road" any experienced sailor should always assume that the offending party does not know you are there nor should you, as a prudent captain, assume the other person knows the rules of the road. There is too much to loose for both and manners are sorely lacking on both land and the water. Being in the right with a badly damaged vessel is a poor trophy for your mantel. Good luck and good sailing, Ron

 

[Indysailor]

I've always wanted to ask someone this question. If the starboard tack boat is the stand on vessel, what am I to make of the following?

This is from the Indiana Boaters Guide, which is what the IN DNR uses for boater education:

When two (2) boats are approaching each other obliquely or at right angles, the boat on the right has the right-of-way. However, when:

1. one (1) boat is under sail or is nonmotorized, the sailboat or nonmotorized boat has the right-of-way; and
2. two (2) boats are under sail or are nonmotorized, the boat on the right has the right-of-way.

No mention of starboard or port tack- I'm not sure what to make of this.
For the record, I just stay well away from other boats unless I know who they are .