Ruddercraft Lower Pintle Failure

pcharn01 · Aug 2, 2023

I had same… need to be sure the white spacer is below the gungeon. Less leverage on the pin. I got new brackets from Ruddercraft. Since I’m not trailering the boat, considering different rig where those pins are replaced with bolts/nuts.

Gene Neill · Aug 2, 2023

Well, that makes four cases of this happening in C22's that I am personally aware of, including my own.

It's inexcusable. Doubly so, if Ruddercraft is blaming placement of a 1/8" thick spacer. These failures are occurring under benign, everyday conditions. And Ruddercraft does not appear to care. To quote the Ruddercraft customer service rep I spoke to, "It's just a Catalina 22, right?"

Personally, I wouldn't (and didn't) replace my pintles with another set from Ruddercraft. Fool me once.

Gene Neill · Aug 2, 2023

pcharn01 said:
I had same… need to be sure the white spacer is below the gungeon. Less leverage on the pin. I got new brackets from Ruddercraft. Since I’m not trailering the boat, considering different rig where those pins are replaced with bolts/nuts.

This was my solution. 1/2" clevis pins, and I had the pintle brackets welded to the rudder stock.

LakeShark · Aug 2, 2023

So forgive me for asking but are the pintles welded to the bracket? I like the look of @Gene Neill fix particularly because it looks stronger than oem. if this is the kick up rudder and its vertical off the stern the lower pintle sees a ton of stress while the upper less so. its not uncommon for racers to brake the lower pintles or gudgeons as well.

kloudie1 · Aug 2, 2023

Probably comes from some metallurgical distress that the weld causes.. Gene's fix with no welds and no threads in the swivel hinge is outstanding.

Jacktar · Aug 3, 2023

Got to wonder why they just dont use a threaded pintle through the bracket instead of welding them in.

...3TacksontheWater · Aug 13, 2023

As an owner of a Rudder Craft kick up rudder and an '88 New Design C-22 (that has yet to see water) threads like this concern me. Without an X-ray of the weld, we should not assume the failure is due to poor weld quality. My interactions with Rudder Craft were more than satisfactory although, at least one of the folks I spoke to did not appreciate just how capable a C-22 is in heavy weather. After seeing Gene Neil's excellent picture of his pintel, my thoughts are that quite possibly, the real issue is that the Ruder Craft supplied pintel bracket itself is not being bent to the correct angle - in this case, the angle should be 90° causing the pintel bracket to rest squarely on the gudgeon brackets. This is a difficult bend to accomplish but, it is necessary to prevent pintel bending forces that can lead to pintel failure in normal operating conditions. In looking at my rudder, the bottom pintel bracket is square. The top bracket is just a little bit off. Just like Gene's picture. I will be calling Rudder Craft this week to discuss and ask for a new bracket and pintel that meets specifications.

George

Rltgold · Sep 26, 2023

So glad (Unfortunalty) to find this post. I have had in the last 2 RC 1/2" Lower Pintle with cracked welds happen in the last 2 Years. I know what the issue is and last year alerted RC about it. I will be receiving a new replacement soon . I am very concerned it will have the same design/manufacturing defect.
The issue with the design stems from the fact that the pin is only welded to the top of the bracket. The underside has a gap between the pin and the hole. This gap is the weak point in the design.
So as far as I can tell there are 6 people including myself with this issue.

Any Sea · Sep 26, 2023

Are these failures on the early boats and the MK II boats?

pcharn01 · Sep 26, 2023

This winter off season, I’m looking for a solution. My boat is in a slip so I’m not too concerned with trailerability and ‘toolless’ removal. Possibly additional brackets with bolt/locknut or castellated nut with cotter pin. Although this never leaves the earth, it should be aircraft quality.

pcharn01 · Sep 26, 2023

Mine is ‘86.

Rltgold · Sep 26, 2023

Any Sea,
Possibly additional brackets with bolt/locknut or castellated nut with cotter pin. I had to look that up. Yes , If the pin was threaded and had to be screwed up into the bracket , then a bolt on the top that would be better.

AaronD · Sep 26, 2023

Any Sea said:
Are these failures on the early boats and the MK II boats?

Those with actual experience may correct me here. But my understanding is:

These failures are in aftermarket rudder assemblies from RudderCraft, who make rudders, tillers, etc. for a wide variety of boats. I think failures have been observed C-22s of various models (perhaps other boats from other manufacturers as well?) The original Catalina pintles had other issues, but this is a RudderCraft-specific failure.

IIUC, some failures (including @AndreInPortland) were in boats with the original 3/8" gudgeons. 3/8" pintles and their associated welds would presumably be weaker than the 1/2" on later boats (@AndreInPortland - sorry I sold you that 3/8" mast crutch instead of recommending you upgrade to 1/2" gudgeons

).

But I believe some failures (including @Gene Neill) were in 1/2" pintles. So color me nervous even with my 1/2" upgrade.

Rltgold · Sep 26, 2023

This is specifically forRudder Craft Brand systems. They have said most issues were with 3/8" Pintles but there have been issues with 1/2" as well.They would not tell me how many though.
I Have a call into the owner of RC to discuss the issue. I have not received a call back yet.
I have been replacing the Gudgeon Bushing once a year and inspecting the Gudgeon & Pintle , but now it will be everytime it comes out of the water.

RudderCraft · Sep 26, 2023

Hello all Catalina 22 owners. My name is Jason and I am the owner of Rudder Craft. I am also a proud sailor of a Catalina 22. I sail my Catalina 22 as often as the schedule and weather allows. I rarely visit forums but a nice customer of ours recently brought this thread to my attention, so I wanted to respond to the pintle concern. It is true that we occasionally have a pintle fail. However to put things into prospective we have approx 4,000 kickup rudders that are being used every season with more added every year. On average we have 2-3 pintles fail each year. This puts the failure rate at about .0005 or .05%. Of course we would prefer the failure to be zero and strive to meet that goal but perfection is not obtainable for anyone. The warranties we offer on our products are far superior to any other product from any company that is in the marine industry. Here at Rudder Craft we strive to offer the best compromise between quality, performance, longevity and value pricing. Just like with any and all products that we all use there is always a compromise. While I am certain that Ford Motor Company could make cars that breakdown less, what would the cost be? Maybe your new car would cost $50K instead of $40K? We do our best to continue to improve products while still keeping pricing at a reasonable level. By us providing a good product and a good price we are able to serve the sailing community and help to keep it moving forward. 99% of our customers are very happy with our products. 100% satisfaction is of course the goal but that will never be achievable by us or by anyone.

Rltgold · Sep 26, 2023

I just got off the phone with Jeff . We had a very nice conversation about the Pintle issue. It is not cost effective to retool his existing stock of Pintles. He does offer a great warranty so combined with more constant inspection of the Pintle/Gudgeon/Bushing system I am hopeful I will not have any failures in the future.

Any Sea · Sep 26, 2023

I ordered a spare lower pintle to keep on the boat in the tool bag. I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it if it does break.

Ruddercraft Lower Pintle Failure

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