Rudder Stop vs. Autopilot

[JamesG161]

I was doing my annual inspection and maintenance of my Edson steering.
Noticed the Rudder Stop had a bit of corrosion.

This is attached to the Steering Sheave and bumps against a "barrier" on 25° angles to restrict the rudder angle.

Normally, the only force is the Helmsman arm strength on the wheel is against that rudder stop.
But...

Can my autopilot apply enough force to break a chain or cable, if the rudder is at it's extreme or blocked?

Jim...

 

[SG]

Normally, the only force is the Helmsman arm strength on the wheel is against that rudder stop.
But...
Can my autopilot apply enough force to break a chain or cable, if the rudder is at it's extreme or blocked?
Jim...

Unless you have a very stout hydraulic ram autopilot ram, I doubt that it would "break a chain or cable" -- however, you're trying to limit the extreme shock loads with the "stop".

I'd just clean it up with WD40 unless it's really "gone", and call it a day.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

My RM linear ram doesn’t have the strength to break the stop. Your autopilot “should” have its own tiller connecting it to the rudder post.

 

[dlochner]

If the autohelm can break a cable or chain, it was already damaged and only a matter of time before the AP or the Helmsman breaks it. Inspect and oil the cable and chain on a regular basis. That then the sheave axles on the idler pulleys.

If you can figure out how to keep the rubber hose on the stop, let us know. Mine keeps falling off.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Also remember that if you're backing hard and don't watch the wheel it will swing quite quickly into the stop. Probably not a common occurrence but it would make for a bad day if it failed.

 

[dlochner]

Also remember that if you're backing hard and don't watch the wheel it will swing quite quickly into the stop. Probably not a common occurrence but it would make for a bad day if it failed.

It doesn't take much to slam it over in reverse. That's a good way to break the quadrant. It is only cast aluminum.

Speaking of which, the quadrant is held together with SS bolts in cast aluminum. As SS and AL will do, they marry and can not be torn asunder. If you haven't aleady, remove and reinstall with Tef Gel or other appropriate antifreeze.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

reinstall with Tef Gel or other appropriate antifreeze.

@dlochner i usually put the antifreeze inside the engine as a coolant. I didn’t know it had antisieze properties also.

Got to love autocorrect.

 

[SG]

The stop in reverse is much more important to protect the equipment -- including the rudder, shaft, quadrant, etc.
You can use self amalgamating tape to assist in keeping the hose in place.

As for the auto-pilot ram, some autopilots have adjustable ranges; When you install the ram, you can make some adjustments to marry this with your "stop". The ram really shouldn't be challenging it though the quadrant, or arm, or whatever.

 

[dlochner]

@dlochner i usually put the antifreeze inside the engine as a coolant. I didn’t know it had antisieze properties also.

Got to love autocorrect.

No, no, I meant antifreeze. That way the bolt won't get frozen in the quadrant.

 

[dlochner]

As for the auto-pilot ram, some autopilots have adjustable ranges; When you install the ram, you can make some adjustments to marry this with your "stop". The ram really shouldn't be challenging it though the quadrant, or arm, or whatever.

This should happen when the AP is calibrated. The calibration process goes through a number of turns so the AP computer learns how the boat turns and the quadrant's limits.

 

[capta]

I'd be a lot more concerned about the rudder slamming into the stop with unregulated movement when going astern or when swinging at anchor (running freely lock to lock), than the autopilot.
One would hope that one's autopilot was properly fused to prevent breaking the stop.

 

[JamesG161]

If the autohelm can break a cable or chain, it was already damaged and only a matter of time before the AP or the Helmsman breaks it. Inspect and oil the cable and chain on a regular basis. That then the sheave axles on the idler pulleys.

If you can figure out how to keep the rubber hose on the stop, let us know. Mine keeps falling off.

I was more worried about perhaps the AP motor, but you are right. I think it would trip the breaker before steering damage.
All chains, pulleys, cables, cable clamps, are in 1st class condition.
_____
Mine in not the rubber hose, but appears to be like an anchor roller type hard rubber.[ ca. 1998]
_____
If you turn the picture I posted upside down that is how mine is installed. It appears to be a design flaw in the bracket. It seems to hold water and the water just sits there and corrodes.

If I find mine needs replacing [$60], I will drill a small hole in that bracket to allow the water to drain out.
____
I pressured washed my sheave and cables [mud dobber nests], inspected the cables, and do the autopilot chain maintenance with the Maintenance cleaning and oiling kit, every season.
And much more...

I understand the forces applied to my rudder on a beam reach at hull speeds.

So I don't want to use my Emergency Tiller ever.
_____

It doesn't take much to slam it over in reverse.

Good thought by you and @SG . Keep your hands on the wheel at all times in reverse.

I have used a double bungee cord, at anchor, to act as a wheel "snubber". That prevents the rudder from sudden Port/Stbd swings.

All good thoughts. Thanks, I knew SBO'ers would clear the cobweb.

Jim...

PS: WD-40 is not allowed on my boat. It is water soluable. Good only for killing wasps or the like.

 

[JamesG161]

You might look at the SBO stores for this steering maintenance Kit...
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?10865

I had to buy a different one for the snap rings about 3 years ago and it came with most of the oils and greases and it seems to be enough for 5 seasons.
https://edsonmarine.com/products/sailboat-steering-wheels/steering-maintenance-kits/
Jim...

PS: I didn't need to use the screw thread "AntiFreeze", but I got some.

 

[capta]

I'm not too sure what you mean by water-soluble WD-40. It is such a good fish attractant that it is illegal to put on your lures in Alaskan Salmon fishing. Did not seem to wash off very fast at all. lol

 

[JamesG161]

I'm not too sure what you mean by water-soluble WD-40

Put it this way, its not a permanent lubricant.
It does wash off eventually.

put on your lures in Alaskan Salmon fishing

Does the Salmon taste funny or lube your dentures?
Jim..

PS: Thanks for telling me why we were woken at anchor one night with this LOUD bang noise, like someone hit our boat. It was the Rudder slam from a good size wave hitting us from astern.

PSS: The Admiral's automobile tool kit... WD-40, Duct tape, screwdriver and hammer.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Put it this way, its not a permanent lubricant.
It does wash off eventually

You're absolutely right that it's not a permanent lubricant, but I thought that was because the lubricating component evaporates away, not washes off.

 

[dlochner]

WD-40 is the 40th version of a Water Displacement rust prevention and degreaser.

https://www.wd40.com/cool-stuff/history

 

[MisterR6]

dlochner beat me to it. Verbatim! Nice!

 

[SG]

How does water in any quantity get onto you steering quadrant?

 

[dlochner]

How does water in any quantity get onto you steering quadrant?

Hopefully, the steering quadrant does not get submerged, however, there is enough humidity and dampness that can condense on the quadrant to cause the SS bolts and AL to corrode and become one.

I had that happen on a freshwater boat that had never seen saltwater. It was particularly exciting when the torch I was using to heat a bolt started leaking at connection to the propane bottle while I was curled up in a ball in the bilge.