I know Ross, but it's called a quadrant.
quadrant
a device connected to the rudder that the steering cables attach to
Rudder removal-through the cockpit
- Thread starter sailaway78
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quadrant
a device connected to the rudder that the steering cables attach to
Spring Chicken
Ross, your just a spring chicken, and being shorter would certainly have helped in this situation. By going into the lazarette head first, and stretching, I could manage to get a socket on the nuts using an 18" extension. Of course it's kinda tough holding an impact out like that, and then it didn't work anyhow. If I were shorter, I think I could have managed to get all the way down in that hole, and much closer to the job at hand. Don't think it would matter though as I suspect that the only way those bolts are going to come out is on a drill press. The marina where I am, is very well equipped, and the owner is a very knowledgable former machinist. A large part of his business is made up of shrimp and oyster boats, so he sees it all. In the third pic, the quadrant and shaft are pushed way up, roughly half way out. In real life it sits way down in there. I think what I am going to do is go up one size on the three shafts, make them a little longer, and thread them into the forward half of the tube. That should hold them in place much better than simple foam. Then pour the rudder full of foam. Lots of work, but should be better than new when finished.
Ross, your just a spring chicken, and being shorter would certainly have helped in this situation. By going into the lazarette head first, and stretching, I could manage to get a socket on the nuts using an 18" extension. Of course it's kinda tough holding an impact out like that, and then it didn't work anyhow. If I were shorter, I think I could have managed to get all the way down in that hole, and much closer to the job at hand. Don't think it would matter though as I suspect that the only way those bolts are going to come out is on a drill press. The marina where I am, is very well equipped, and the owner is a very knowledgable former machinist. A large part of his business is made up of shrimp and oyster boats, so he sees it all. In the third pic, the quadrant and shaft are pushed way up, roughly half way out. In real life it sits way down in there. I think what I am going to do is go up one size on the three shafts, make them a little longer, and thread them into the forward half of the tube. That should hold them in place much better than simple foam. Then pour the rudder full of foam. Lots of work, but should be better than new when finished.
Most "quadrants" or drives are split and are two pieces. The drive below is an Edson but yours looks like a Merriman / Yacht Specialties. I can see a seam in it so there must be some bolts? My YS quadrant has one in the middle that goes through the shaft and then four bolts holding the halves together, two each side.
I would weld a stainless web to the rudder post before rebuilding around it to give you some actual strength other than the glue properties of the glass to the shaft..
I would weld a stainless web to the rudder post before rebuilding around it to give you some actual strength other than the glue properties of the glass to the shaft..
All,
Hate to be picky but what's pictured is an Edson radial drive. Quadrants were actually only a portion of the full circle, sort of a triangular casting, typically brass or bronze. I never measured one but by the name I would expect they were only 1/4 of a full circle. Sextants are so called because . . . blah, blah, blah.
Phillip, Are the bolts accessable from the top? or are they underneath that disk?. If there isn't a good reason otherwise I would assemble it with the bolts on top. Paint the bolt threads with teflon pipe joint compound.
I put plain steel nuts and bolts out by my mailbox with the bolt threads painted with pipe dope and after two years of winter salt and summer dog pee. I was able to turn the nuts with no sign of rust on the thread.
I put plain steel nuts and bolts out by my mailbox with the bolt threads painted with pipe dope and after two years of winter salt and summer dog pee. I was able to turn the nuts with no sign of rust on the thread.
MS Question
MS, Just curious. Wouldn't it be a good idea to drill holes through the rudder and push smaller SS pipe through as opposed to welding a stainless web on?
i am almost positve that didnt come out of your boat Main....Most "quadrants" or drives are split and are two pieces. The drive below is an Edson but yours looks like a Merriman / Yacht Specialties. I can see a seam in it so there must be some bolts? My YS quadrant has one in the middle that goes through the shaft and then four bolts holding the halves together, two each side.
I would weld a stainless web to the rudder post before rebuilding around it to give you some actual strength other than the glue properties of the glass to the shaft..
regards
woody
You have to consider the concentration of force on the rudder body from the rods or pipes.
I'm not following your description. Nearly every rudder I have seen re-built, taken apart or built had a welded stainless web attached to the rudder post. Catalina's do to. Generally they don't like to drill through the rudder post an prefer to weld on to it with flat bar stock.
Image Courtesy Foss Foam
This one came out of my friends boat and weighed over 150 pounds. It was unusable due to crevice corrosion and was replaced with Aquamet 22, quite a pricey process...
Welding does allow the possibility that chrome could be burned out and make the welds less corrosion resistant. I am wondering if anyone is coating their rudder shafts with something that sticks to SS better than epoxy?
i would think that if you rough grind the flats with a 36 grit disc you would creat a mechanical bond and you could also punch holes in the flat bars as well giveing more stringth to the process........
regards
woody
looks like a fine assembly mainsail shows pictured. aquamet is te only way to go for boat shafting. use stainless steel flatbar and weld with stainless mig wire. any wirebrush needs to be stainless. dont use grinding rock or sanding pad that has been used on carbon steel. the rest is in a good layup job. the choices in material are numerous. the rudder frame on the porch looks to 316 stainless shaft with hot rolled flatbar dobber welded on. not good... protect your shaft from weld spatter and even someone working close with carbon steel. the whole rudder system is only as strong as it's weakest link. good luck with your projects. jimbob
Interestingly enough the welded web was the only part not badly suffering and was in decent shape. Water had leaked around the shaft and was in contact with it thus the crevice corrosion of the shaft. I am fairly certain that web was also 316SS..
Looks exactly like that
Quadrant looks exactly like the one mainesail posted up. Is two piece, four clamping bolts, two on each side, and one through the center that goes through the shaft. All bolts of course were on the bottom. Don't know if it's possible to flip it over and put the bolts on top, but don't think so. I think that flipping it over would be a wonderful idea, but don't think it will work. Putting the collar on top would move the whole thing down, and not allow the cables to line up. Thats only about two inches, but it is that tight in there.
Quadrant looks exactly like the one mainesail posted up. Is two piece, four clamping bolts, two on each side, and one through the center that goes through the shaft. All bolts of course were on the bottom. Don't know if it's possible to flip it over and put the bolts on top, but don't think so. I think that flipping it over would be a wonderful idea, but don't think it will work. Putting the collar on top would move the whole thing down, and not allow the cables to line up. Thats only about two inches, but it is that tight in there.
Nice:
I recognized that quadrant. In my family we had both a Seidelman 37 and a 25. Bob Seidelman built some pretty fast and cost effective boats in his day. He built almost everything including the sails. We experienced keel bolt and bedding problems with the S 37 keel, and the Edison pulley assembly below the pedestal was subject to corrosion failure. Please check it carefully while you are in there. The 37 took some hard hits including the rudder, but we never had a failure. Of course it's probably a 30 year old hull by now. Best of lick.
I recognized that quadrant. In my family we had both a Seidelman 37 and a 25. Bob Seidelman built some pretty fast and cost effective boats in his day. He built almost everything including the sails. We experienced keel bolt and bedding problems with the S 37 keel, and the Edison pulley assembly below the pedestal was subject to corrosion failure. Please check it carefully while you are in there. The 37 took some hard hits including the rudder, but we never had a failure. Of course it's probably a 30 year old hull by now. Best of lick.
Use "L" grade 316 or 304 for the post and the rods and welding is OK .. otherwise as Jimbob says, lots of corrosion at the heat affected zones of the welds. I would think that threading or pinning (preferred) at the post would be OK as long as the rods are well bonded to the rudder skin.. There is (should be??) no significant fore/aft force on the rods.. Worked a long time with no fore/aft restraint except for the foam.. I guess the rods woggled out a space in the foam and eventually the space got big enough to let 'em disengage after a small whack ..
Hope things are going well, Phil
Hope things are going well, Phil
claude--if had been a small whack, would have still been fine!!!!! wow--we had adventure that night lol.....yipes.....
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