rudder lock down on a S?

Sumner · Dec 2, 2011

We have the Ida rudder so don't know about the stock one. I'm pretty sure that there is a hole for a pin in ours, but we never used it.

It had/has a down-haul line that comes up thru the rudder assembly, can't remember the name, and I think that is stock on a S. It was cleated off to the cleat on the tiller and then we added the release in ....

...the picture to the top of the cleat.

More here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-1.html

There isn't much to it and as you can see in the picture there is a SS wire cable that comes from the rudder up through the assembly and then a line is tied to it. The Rudder end has a thimble on it. There is a long 1/4 inch bolt. The bolt has a large washer next to the head. Then the bolt goes thru a hole in the rudder. There is a large washer next on the other side, then the thimble and a second large washer and last a nyloc nut. The thimble/wire is captured between the two washers on one side of the rudder.

If these parts aren't there a 1/4 inch line could probably be used for the day. Just tie it through the hole where the bolt goes.

Of course if this is use it won't kick up if cleated off to the tiller and is the reason we added the release. If this isn't clear I could take some pictures of parts, but the rudder is inside and the boat outside and it is starting to snow :cry:,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

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Justin_NSA · Dec 2, 2011

You should have a hole that you can pin. It's a bit of a hassle to do it every time you're done sailing and you want to haul your rudder out of the water. I have a setup similar to Sum's

Robspan · Dec 2, 2011

Some people have said they use the plastic bolts that hold down toilet seats. The advantage, aside from the obvious - that the plastic will shear, is that a nut/bolt combination is less likely to fall off.

Justin_NSA · Dec 2, 2011

MrBill_FLL said:
So, for a stock boat, there should be a hole to slip a pencil thru it, and lock it down? RIGHT?

Right!
But I don't think a pencil shears like you would want it to because of the grain. I've never tested one.

timebandit · Dec 2, 2011

Does this help?

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18140

Sumner · Dec 2, 2011

MrBill_FLL said:
fwiw, this is the best pic I have of the tiller setup..

maybe there is a ball on that cable under the tiller? ...

I don't see an uphaul line there or a cleat on the rudder unless there is a cleat under where it is tied to the pushpit.

If it was me I'd suggest to the owner that he go to WM and get a cleat and put it on the tiller and also get 10-15 feet of 1/4 inch no-stretch braided line.

Then if there is a hole in the rudder for an uphaul drop the line down the center of the rudder assembly and tie it to the hole and pull the rudder down with the line and cleat it to the tiller. If he is using good line then the rudder should stay down. Latter he could change the line to wire/cable to prevent the chaffing where it comes out and over at the top of the rudder assembly.

Is the boat in the water or on a trailer now. If it is on a trailer this would all be easy to do and test before goiing in the water and you wouldn't get wet. It would only take a couple minutes to put the cleat on the tiller with a cordless drill and then you should be good to go,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

walt · Dec 2, 2011

My 1990 26S is in my backyard right now - I took some pictures. First picture is the stock rudder (blue). Second shows the bracket and the ruddercraft aftermarket rudder. You can see a 5/16 inch hole at the top of the rudder chock and this is where you would insert a nylon dowel - looks like its above the water line a bit. Both the stock rudder and the ruddercraft rudder have a matching hole so I think you should be able to do a pin when you go sailing.

There are some other pictures of my rudder hold down. I use a bungie rather than the releasing cleats to keep the line tight- Im somewhat anal about the rudder being very tight down and jam cleats back off enough to bother me (yup, I know... anal).. Ive done some bad things to this rudder over four years, its held up no problem with this setup.

You can see the ice on the boat and its not going anywhere for a while - have a great time sailing!

timebandit · Dec 2, 2011

Paul Brinkley · Dec 2, 2011

26S Rudder

I attached a sketch of the setup of my S as it was when I got it- I think it was stock. I have added a very stiff bungee between the rope and the cleat. -Paul

Mike B1026 · Dec 2, 2011

Suggestion

Not sure if I'm seeing it correctly but I would suggest two things on your set up. I would install a couple of stainless "fender" washers on your pivot bolt. They help spread the load out better. Lots of "S" rudder brackets get bent in that area (from not keeping the pivot bolt snug)

I would also be concerned with your downhaul line that appears to be attached to the rudder bracket. From what I can see in the pic, it looks like the bolt isn't helping to keep the bracket "ears" together since the line is running between the washer and rudder. You could go with a longer bolt, add a spacer and another washer. Then you could attach the downhaul line between the two washers. Clear as mud?

walt said:
My 1990 26S is in my backyard right now - I took some pictures. First picture is the stock rudder (blue). Second shows the bracket and the ruddercraft aftermarket rudder. You can see a 5/16 inch hole at the top of the rudder chock and this is where you would insert a nylon dowel - looks like its above the water line a bit. Both the stock rudder and the ruddercraft rudder have a matching hole so I think you should be able to do a pin when you go sailing.

There are some other pictures of my rudder hold down. I use a bungie rather than the releasing cleats to keep the line tight- Im somewhat anal about the rudder being very tight down and jam cleats back off enough to bother me (yup, I know... anal).. Ive done some bad things to this rudder over four years, its held up no problem with this setup.

You can see the ice on the boat and its not going anywhere for a while - have a great time sailing!

walt · Dec 3, 2011

Its been a few years since I’ve needed to mess with the tiller (no need, works fine as is and is well tested) but I thought Id show one picture of an idea I got off a web site close to five years ago. It’s a stainless metal bar that mounts under the tiller (see the black arrow) and it both holds the tiller off the Laz lid and it also takes out 100% of the slop in the pivot. I won’t try and explain how it takes ALL of the slop out - but it does. After about a year, I added the ss radiator hose clamp where this bar contacts the post. That was a few years ago, haven’t even thought about it until this morning when I took the picture.

The other picture is for Mr. Bill (taken about 10 minutes ago) - so you can appreciate a nice sail in Florida today.. Sure sounds like a really good thing to do..

Cruiser1 · Dec 3, 2011

walt said:
.....It’s a stainless metal bar that mounts under the tiller (see the black arrow) and it both holds the tiller off the Laz lid and it also takes out 100% of the slop in the pivot. I won’t try and explain how it takes ALL of the slop out - but it does. After about a year, I added the ss radiator hose clamp where this bar contacts the post. That was a few years ago, haven’t even thought about it until this morning when I took the picture........

Thanks Walt, what a brilliant solution to 2 common problems! By the way I like your boat all dressed up for Xmas - now I won't stress so much about my boat getting all dusty in the back yard.

Kestle · Dec 4, 2011

Mike B1026 said:
Not sure if I'm seeing it correctly but I would suggest two things on your set up. I would install a couple of stainless "fender" washers on your pivot bolt. They help spread the load out better. Lots of "S" rudder brackets get bent in that area (from not keeping the pivot bolt snug)

I would also be concerned with your downhaul line that appears to be attached to the rudder bracket. From what I can see in the pic, it looks like the bolt isn't helping to keep the bracket "ears" together since the line is running between the washer and rudder. You could go with a longer bolt, add a spacer and another washer. Then you could attach the downhaul line between the two washers. Clear as mud?

I saw the same thing, and believe a flat bar or square of cut stainless would work better. That weld to the post also would have me checking it a lot.

Jeff

walt · Dec 4, 2011

when I bought this boat about five years ago, the rudder was one of the first things I worked on so Im hoping that Ive remembered things correctly..

You could go with a longer bolt, add a spacer and another washer. Then you could attach the downhaul line between the two washers. Clear as mud?

In the first picture, I think I have something similar to what Mike suggested and if I remember right, there was a welded in stop in the location where that bolt is that has the downhaul attached. When the rudder is all the way down, it comes in contact with the stop and that was what defined its "down" position. On my boat, this welded stop was originally busted so I removed it (easy since it was about ready to fall off anyhow) and drilled a couple holes in the chock where the welded stop had been and put a bolt there - used one end of the bolt for the downhaul. I always intended to increase the area of stop contact with the rudder - but completely forgot that I intended to do this until I went out took this picture...

Hmm... Looks like that bolt is bent a little - that may have happened last August. I was on a shallow mooring and got the rudder stuck on the ground while single handed picking up the mooring and could not get it back up as a fairly strong wind was blowing the boat backwards but the mooring kept the boat from "falling off". I had to start the outboard and motor forward to get the rudder up.. As I mentioned, Ive done some bad things to the rudder..

Cruiser1 · Dec 4, 2011

walt said:
..... Second (picture) shows the bracket and the ruddercraft aftermarket rudder........

Walt, I like your double purchase arrangement on the rudder downhaul. What was your reason in locating the pulley above and behind the location of the original bolt hole for holding the end of the downhaul line? (I assume for stronger leaverage when in the down position but just thought there may be more to it than that - just a bit relucatant to drill a hole in my blade if I don't have to):cry:.

rudder lock down on a S?

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