Rub rail on new design boats

[Gene Neill]

Anyone have any experience repairing/rebedding/replacing it? Any inside info on whether it is prone to leakage? I'm not talking about the vinyl insert, although I would be interested in hearing from people who have replaced that too, for that matter. But it's the aluminum rail itself I'm primarily interested in at this point in the game.

I have a section of rail that was already damaged when I bought the boat. I recently (finally) bought a 6' section of the aluminum rail from CD, along with a roll of the vinyl insert. I'm getting ready to go to work on it. I'm wondering if I should remove the rail all the way around the boat and rebed it somehow, although it would not/could not be rebedded like a deck fitting, since it is raised/separated from the hull by 1/8" or so?

 

[Gene Neill]

BTW, can anyone confirm or deny that this is the hull/deck joint used on the new design C22? It looks really close from what I can discern, except that my rail is attached with pan head screws rather than through bolted.

 

[CloudDiver]

I can't speak to the new design since I haven't inspected the joint up close, but judging from their own literature I don't think the joint it self is any different. *** Edit, duh, yes I can talk about 'New design' because I have one, I thought we were talking about the MK II **
If you look back through my resto thread you'll see how I removed all of my rub rail and the channel. I filled the underside gap with epoxy and fairing compound and sanded it off level. Of course, I did this with the hull inverted which is much easier. It does nothing structurally really, just keeps dirt and water from where it collects in the un-even joint compound. I Think its possible to do this on a boat that is on the trailer using the G-Glex epoxy in the gun that automatically mixes as it exits the tube and is pre thickened. You'd have to do some tape lines and plastic sheet to protect your gelcoat, but I'm sure you could fill it level and use a plastic scraper to keep it level with minimal sanding.

You can absolutely bed the rub rails, I would suggest 4200 but something that has even less adhesive power and more flexibility would be fine, maybe even better. If you look at the back side of the channel one edge is long and one is short, obviously the long edge goes over the edge. If you really wanted to get crazy you could use butyle tape. It would take up the space that the short edge creates between the aluminum and the hull and not too much will squeeze out. It will keep water off the stainless screws and prevent bi-metal corrosion.

I also over bored all the screw holes and filled them with thickened epoxy and re-drilled the pilot holes.

 

[Doug4bass]

Cant really speak for the alum extrusion part.......but I have replaced the vinyl on both my 22 and 270. ( I am anal). HOT soapy water is the answer.
My Bro had the aluminum extrusion replaced on his 22....seemed like no big deal. I think sheet metal screws.
If you have a grey deck...maybe change to a grey insert?

 

[CaptDon01]

The original version and the new design boats both had the same deck/hull joint design and rub-rail. Starting with the MK-II the factory re-designed the hull to deck joint and is fully bonded with a round joint vs the shoe-box joint. My original C-22 hull/deck joint would leak when the boat was healed. Water would run up the hull and under the rubrail and get into the bilge. I removed the old caulking and used 5200 under the aluminum rail, and also filled the entire gap from the inside also,(what a fun job that was!), but she never leaked anymore, and I'm sure she still doesn't leak.

By the way, that drawing isn't how the C-22 hull/deck joint was done. It's simply a show-box design and the factory installed a strip of plywood around the top and the aluminum rub-rail was screwed on, no bolts were used.

Don

 

[Gene Neill]

Hey guys -

This evening I just went ahead and removed the rubrail all around. It had VERY minimal sealant under it. I'm gonna reseal the whole thing.

I have long suspected I was leaking water under it in rough weather, somewhere up near the bow, and it looks like I was right. The water from here was ending up in the same place as the water from the anchor locker drain (I think). It'll be nice to say goodbye to that leak! (I hope)

 

[CloudDiver]

Mother of God!

Hey guys -

This evening I just went ahead and removed the rubrail all around. It had VERY minimal sealant under it. I'm gonna reseal the whole thing.

I have long suspected I was leaking water under it in rough weather, somewhere up near the bow, and it looks like I was right. The water from here was ending up in the same place as the water from the anchor locker drain (I think). It'll be nice to say goodbye to that leak! (I hope)

 

[Gene Neill]

Mother of God!

LOL ... you think that's classic, you might get a kick out of this then. This was what I saw when I removed my stem fitting to rebed it. Straight from the factory as far as I know. One of these holes (lower middle in the photo) actually peeked out from under the edge of the fitting. You could have poked a toothpick through it.

Incredibly, the wood in the area was still hard and dry. I guess what Catalina lacked in QC at the time, they made up for with quality plywood.

 

[Gene Neill]

Progression shots:

Insert removed, dirt scrubbed out of the rail ...

Grime under the rail ...

Grime wiped off ... whatever sealant was used was woefully insufficient and not even present at every hole. The good news is, it's really dry and comes off easily. I don't know if there's wood behind there, but I'll assume there is, and use copious amounts of Sikaflex 291 behind the rail this time.

 

[ShotgunSlim]

Good gravy Gene! I've got some minor leak issues up in the bow as well on my "new design" and I can already see where some PO has cracked the bow up a bit. Since I'm now going to try the transom drain replacement, (following you and CCranes posts all the way), I may have to pull the rub rail on mine and see what I've got.......

 

[Gene Neill]

Underside of the hull/deck joint. This is fairly representative of the way it looks all the way around. I doubt there are leaks here, other than at the bow.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Great photos Gene. thanks !
What's that metal piece on the bow photo ?

Looks like I'll re-bed the screws with butyl tape in the fall.

FWIW:
My new rubrail insert arrived and I'm installing it now.
So far, it seems like the best way to install when the boat is on the trailer, it is to put the top edge into the upper rail lip and use a plastic automotive trim tool to push the lower lip into the rail.

The new stuff was a bit stiff, and installing it in hot weather, or using a hair dryer to heat the insert might help.

 

[CloudDiver]

Gene,

Consider yourself lucky with this part! This is what I was talking about in my resto where this underside was not 'square' and I filled it all in and sanded to square while inverted. There was a ton of dirt and grime stuck up in the un-even cavities created by the adhesive from the hull to deck joint. Worst case you could just paint that to ensure a water-tight and smooth surface.

Underside of the hull/deck joint. This is fairly representative of the way it looks all the way around. I doubt there are leaks here, other than at the bow.

 

[CloudDiver]

Wow... I have to stay I'm not surprised. Typical 'moving too fast' factory shoddy workmanship. I would over bore the next size up, countersink those holes just a bit, then tape off the back and fill with epoxy. Then re-drill and countersink lightly again. For that jagged tang slot, fill with epoxy the same as above, but after you drill the two holes on each side I found that a Roto-Zip bit on a dremel tool works perfectly, kind of like a plunge router. I'll post pics of how I did mine.

What you should end up with are nice mounting holes that are epoxy sleeved and have a slight counter-sink to create the gasket for the bedding compound. Leak proof for decades.

LOL ... you think that's classic, you might get a kick out of this then. This was what I saw when I removed my stem fitting to rebed it. Straight from the factory as far as I know. One of these holes (lower middle in the photo) actually peeked out from under the edge of the fitting. You could have poked a toothpick through it.

Incredibly, the wood in the area was still hard and dry. I guess what Catalina lacked in QC at the time, they made up for with quality plywood.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Luke:
I didn't realize you had to fix that on yours.
I'll have to find the thread.

Sigh.... production boat fun.
For owners that run into this stuff, here's hoping that quality control issues like that aren't throughout a specific hull. You end up praying that it was just that single team that was pinch hitting (or not caring that day) on the production floor.

Looking forward to the photos.

I found that a Roto-Zip bit on a dremel tool works perfectly, kind of like a plunge router. I'll post pics of how I did mine.

 

[CloudDiver]

I didn't have to fix it, I upgraded to the tang style stem fitting that is stock on your <86. That fitting is cheaper to buy than the stem re-enforcement kit that is intended for the >86. I haven't permanently bolted or bedded the new fitting and anchor roller yet because I have yet to paint.

There is a part of my resto thread that shows my 'bombproof' foredeck/forestay where I laminated in additional layers of plywood on the inside to make the total foredeck thickness almost 1 inch. I probably don't even need the tang style stem fitting now, but I had already purchased it. I drilled the slot for it and it was a bit too big, I did it at first without the roto-zip bit, just regular drill bits and files. I filled it with epoxy because I needed to anyway, but when I used the roto-zip bit to re-bore the pocket it is much cleaner and tighter now. I will use 4200 from the top and bottom to bed it for a very good seal.

Luke:
I didn't realize you had to fix that on yours.
I'll have to find the thread.

Sigh.... production boat fun.
For owners that run into this stuff, here's hoping that quality control issues like that aren't throughout a specific hull. You end up praying that it was just that single team that was pinch hitting (or not caring that day) on the production floor.

Looking forward to the photos.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Luke: I must say, I like reading your posts.
You don't cut corners, and you do quality work. I really respect that mindset.

 

[Gene Neill]

Wow... I have to stay I'm not surprised. Typical 'moving too fast' factory shoddy workmanship. I would over bore the next size up, countersink those holes just a bit, then tape off the back and fill with epoxy. Then re-drill and countersink lightly again. For that jagged tang slot, fill with epoxy the same as above, but after you drill the two holes on each side I found that a Roto-Zip bit on a dremel tool works perfectly, kind of like a plunge router. I'll post pics of how I did mine.

What you should end up with are nice mounting holes that are epoxy sleeved and have a slight counter-sink to create the gasket for the bedding compound. Leak proof for decades.

Already done, actually. That pic is a year old or better. I did the job exactly the way you described! Of course now I have to rebed the fitting again, in order to mount my new anchor roller.

 

[Gene Neill]

Okay, well, I spread some thickened epoxy up under the joint where it was needed, and packed butyl around the stem fitting tang. I went ahead and installed my new anchor roller while I was at it, which of course involved removing the stem fitting and re-bedding the whole thing. While I am confident it will not leak any time soon, I wish I could have gotten at it from the inside. I could have done so much more. But the only access is through the small inspection port in the anchor locker. So I basically waterproofed the stem tang the same way I did my chainplates.

I used a dab of Sikaflex 291 at every screw hole, and began reinstalling the rail beginning with the bow and working my way back. The moment I'd been waiting for arrived at the port stern quarter, where I had removed the section of damaged rail. Would the new piece bend around the corner??

YES! YES IT DID! I was very careful to only apply force as close to the corner as possible. The preliminary result was close enough I knew it was gonna work. A little love from a small sledge and a block of wood got it factory tight:

 

[Doug4bass]

I see you have grey decks, plus a blue sheer stripe. Grey vinyl insert maybe??