When the wind gusts to 20 or so apparent I occasionally find myself rounding up--turning forcefully to windward until the boat is head to wind. No amount of rudder will stop this. This has happened to me in a Catalina 30, Catalina 320 and a Beneteau 36. I am aware that one answer to this is to reef, but usually when it happens it is the result of a suddden unexpected gust, so i have no time or warning to reef. Once it happened when the jib was reefed, and as the boat started to round up, I released the jib sheet--but it made no difference. Any suggestions as to how I can avoid this?
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G: Here's what's happening. Most sailors don't realize that the mainsail is like a giant rudder. In fact, the mainsail is much more powerful than the rudder and as you have found, the mainsail can easily overpower the rudder. In a strong puff, the increase pressure on the main will cause the boat to round up regardless of what force you apply to the rudder. The solution is to merely ease the mainsheet and the boat will continue on a straight course. When you released the jib sheet you actually compounded the problem. The jib was trying to help you compensate for the round up. Here's a tip for racers who are having trouble turning a mark. I've seen many middle to back of the pack racers approach the mark and they do nothing with the mainsail and the skipper is fighting the wheel to turn the boat. As I said, the main is a giant rudder and the mark rounding would be so much easier and smoother if the mainsheet/traveler trimmer would ease the main and traveler as the mark is approached thus working in concert with the helmsman. Next time your out on the water, give it a try and see if it improves your mark rounding.
Some follow up questions
Don, thanks for the quick response. Some follow up questionS: Which is more effective to overcome this problem--letting out the main or easing the traveller? Also it would seem that in heavy weather I'm better off reefing the main before reefing the jib--since the main is the "main" culprit. Would I eliminate the problem by sailing with jib only in gusty weather?
Don, thanks for the quick response. Some follow up questionS: Which is more effective to overcome this problem--letting out the main or easing the traveller? Also it would seem that in heavy weather I'm better off reefing the main before reefing the jib--since the main is the "main" culprit. Would I eliminate the problem by sailing with jib only in gusty weather?
Could this be a Mast problem?
I've also seen members of this list mention the tilt of the mast as a way to tune the helm. This may be nothing more than needing to tighten the forestay.(Moves the center of effort foreward, effectively reducing the effect of the main and increasing the jib) Just did a search....Yep "Mast Rake" may need adjusting. See the Link It's a Potter page, but it explains the concept.
I've also seen members of this list mention the tilt of the mast as a way to tune the helm. This may be nothing more than needing to tighten the forestay.(Moves the center of effort foreward, effectively reducing the effect of the main and increasing the jib) Just did a search....Yep "Mast Rake" may need adjusting. See the Link It's a Potter page, but it explains the concept.
G: To overcome the problem you should do both -ease the mainsheet and drop the traveler a little. Now that you understand what is causing the problem, you should purposely put yourself into the situation the next time the wind conditions present themselves and work your way in and out of it to see what works best on your boat. Easing the mainsheet should do it. The advantage you have now is it won't come as a shock to you as you've added to your sailing experience level. In other words, your not scratching your head trying to figure out what to do. On mast head rig boats, the engine is the jib and on fractional rigs boats (like the America Cup) the engine is the main. The reefing sequence on your boat is the opposite of the way you raised your sails so the first sail you reef is the jib and then you go to the main and in the worse case scenario you then go to a bare pole. This is overly simplistic but what makes a sail boat sail straight is the action of the main, which wants to cause you to round up and the jib which wants to make you fall off. By balancing both sails, you could actually sail the boat without the rudder. So if you sail with the jib only in very gusty weather you are now fighting the tendancy of the boat to want to fall off. To answer your last question - sailing with the jib only in gusty weather is not a good idea. Again, now that you know what your dealing with, try both situations. One last point. All the sail trim controls that GOD put on your boat for the mainsail and jib are there for a reason and they really can help you to control the boat and obtain optimum efficiency through the full range of wind and points of sail and are very simple to learn when their function is explained in an easy to manner. Take a look at my book (The Sail Trim Users Guide) and my Sail Trim Chart, which is listed on this site in the ships store section and see if they are something that might help you. My guarantee is that after digesting the material you will know more about sail trim than 75% of the sailors worldwide or I'll give you your money back and you can keep the material!! Here's my opinion - once a person buys a sailboat I think it is important that they move from the beginner level to high intermediate as quickly as possable because you can get yourself in some messy situations that in the worse case can be life threating but when you completely understand how the boat works these situations become very manageable and insignificant. If someone like me, who is just a common seaman, can learn this stuff anyone can!!
Leave your mast alone...
Don is right, don't re-tune your mast. This is a simple sail trim issue. Every boat experiences weather helm, which is the tendency to turn into the wind. It's actually designed into the boat and the sail plan. >Which is more effective to overcome this >problem--letting out the main or easing the >traveller? Ease the traveller first. If that doesn't reduce the pressure on the rudder, then ease the mainsheet, too. If that doesn't improve things, it's past time to reef. >Also it would seem that in heavy weather I'm >better off reefing the main before reefing the >jib--since the main is the "main" culprit. You need to keep the two sails in balance. But, if consistent, excessive weather helm is the problem, then reefing the jib just makes it worse. >Would I eliminate the problem by sailing with >jib only in gusty weather That would eliminate the weather helm, but you can't really sail to windward without your main, can you?
Don is right, don't re-tune your mast. This is a simple sail trim issue. Every boat experiences weather helm, which is the tendency to turn into the wind. It's actually designed into the boat and the sail plan. >Which is more effective to overcome this >problem--letting out the main or easing the >traveller? Ease the traveller first. If that doesn't reduce the pressure on the rudder, then ease the mainsheet, too. If that doesn't improve things, it's past time to reef. >Also it would seem that in heavy weather I'm >better off reefing the main before reefing the >jib--since the main is the "main" culprit. You need to keep the two sails in balance. But, if consistent, excessive weather helm is the problem, then reefing the jib just makes it worse. >Would I eliminate the problem by sailing with >jib only in gusty weather That would eliminate the weather helm, but you can't really sail to windward without your main, can you?
Darren: A MAST HEAD rig is the type you generally see on Catalina's, Benny's etc and is where the front stay (and consequently the jib)goes almost to the top of the mast. A FRACTIONAL rig is the type you generally see on Hunters, J boats and America Cup boats. The front stay goes about 2/3 up the mast. The are called fractional because the stay only goes up a fraction of the total height of the mast. As I mentioned before, the jib is the engine of a mast head rig and the main is the engine of a fractional rig.
Boat rounds up
The following is cut from the, "Ask all sailors" forum. It was the answer/idea that Rick Gottlieb had for me. Sounds pretty logical. There *may* be a way to resolve this problem The fundamental problem is that the "rounding up" forces exterted on the sail overpower the opposing directional forces set by the rudder and keel. In short, you've got a real bad case of "weather helm" and the twin bilge keel design (particularly when sailing upwind and only one of the two keel is providing directional stability) would seem to make the problem worse. While I don't know the set up of your rig, I would think that the following adjustments would reduce the boat's tendency to round up: 1. First of all (perhaps most important of all) you need to better "balance" the boat's *combined* center of effort. Weather helm is caused when the *combined* center of effort (i.e. the center of effort between the jib and mainsail) is too far aft of the boat's "pivot point" (i.e. center of lateral resistance). In short, you need to move the combined center of effort FORWARD. To do this, you must reduce the power of the mainsail and increase the power of the jib. 2. To depower the mainsail, increase tension on the outhaul, main halyard, cunningham and boom vang. The point is to reduce the amount of draft depth or "belly" in the main by making the sail as progressively flat as possible. A flat sail does not generate as much lift and hence is less powerful than a full bellied sail. 3. Next I would power up the jib by moving the jibsheet fairleads far forward to give the jib greater draft depth. 4. When a gust appears to approach, I would be ready to further de-power the mainsail, by allowing the traveler to drop to leeward, decreasing the mainsail's "angle of attack" to the apparent wind. If dropping the traveler is not sufficient, further de-power the mainsail by letting out the mainsheet, but make sure to maintain tension on the boomvang so the sail remains relatively flat. Hopefully, these suggestions will give you more tools to help control the demon of "weather helm". If you've tried these tools, and your still not able to balance the rig fore and aft, you'll need to take more drastic measures such as reefing the main much earlier to more substantially reduce the sail area aft of the "pivot point" of the boat. Additionally, you might want to consider going to a rigger to see if the forestay and backstay are properly tensioned. Food for thought.
The following is cut from the, "Ask all sailors" forum. It was the answer/idea that Rick Gottlieb had for me. Sounds pretty logical. There *may* be a way to resolve this problem The fundamental problem is that the "rounding up" forces exterted on the sail overpower the opposing directional forces set by the rudder and keel. In short, you've got a real bad case of "weather helm" and the twin bilge keel design (particularly when sailing upwind and only one of the two keel is providing directional stability) would seem to make the problem worse. While I don't know the set up of your rig, I would think that the following adjustments would reduce the boat's tendency to round up: 1. First of all (perhaps most important of all) you need to better "balance" the boat's *combined* center of effort. Weather helm is caused when the *combined* center of effort (i.e. the center of effort between the jib and mainsail) is too far aft of the boat's "pivot point" (i.e. center of lateral resistance). In short, you need to move the combined center of effort FORWARD. To do this, you must reduce the power of the mainsail and increase the power of the jib. 2. To depower the mainsail, increase tension on the outhaul, main halyard, cunningham and boom vang. The point is to reduce the amount of draft depth or "belly" in the main by making the sail as progressively flat as possible. A flat sail does not generate as much lift and hence is less powerful than a full bellied sail. 3. Next I would power up the jib by moving the jibsheet fairleads far forward to give the jib greater draft depth. 4. When a gust appears to approach, I would be ready to further de-power the mainsail, by allowing the traveler to drop to leeward, decreasing the mainsail's "angle of attack" to the apparent wind. If dropping the traveler is not sufficient, further de-power the mainsail by letting out the mainsheet, but make sure to maintain tension on the boomvang so the sail remains relatively flat. Hopefully, these suggestions will give you more tools to help control the demon of "weather helm". If you've tried these tools, and your still not able to balance the rig fore and aft, you'll need to take more drastic measures such as reefing the main much earlier to more substantially reduce the sail area aft of the "pivot point" of the boat. Additionally, you might want to consider going to a rigger to see if the forestay and backstay are properly tensioned. Food for thought.
Here’s a trick
Since one of the goals here is to “depower” the main, what you need to do is to get the main to spill wind from the top or head of the main sail. If you install a rigid vang or Boom Kicker that holds up the boom about ten degrees above horizontal with the vang released and the main sail affixed to the boom, you will develop an easy means by which the boom is raised to loosen tension or open the leech and therefore spill wind off the head of the main sail. This effectively depowers your main. Usually before sailors experience one of these annoying rounding up situations, they are well heeled, as they are in an upwind tack from about a beam reach up to close hauled. In this situation with either a rigid vang or Boom Kicker installed as described, the object is to release the vang and then main sheet and allow the boom to raise upward. After this, the main sheet should be tensioned again for the particular tack but only to where it encounters pressure from the spring of a rigid vang or the rods of a Boom Kicker. This action should get the vessel onto a more even keel yet still allow the main to be raised for power. It is a lot easier than resorting to a reef. What I say does come into conflict with the concept about tensioning the boom vang as noted in point two of the just previous post. However, the boom vang more so tensions or closes the leech than it flattens the sail. For power, it is probably best to either close or tension the leech, while opening or loosening the leech will depower the sail. Thus for upwind work into high winds where you need to lessen the heel of the boat, you do tighten the out haul and halyard or Cunningham, but the vang should probably be loosened. For downwind work, loosen the out haul and halyard or Cunningham and the vang should probably be tightened. This makes sense when you note that when going downwind, the leech in effect becomes the luff, that it is the edge of the sail that encounters the wind first, and therefore should be straight and tight. And of course, visa-versa for upwind tacks. Not every situation, in terms of vessel, sea conditions, wind, and sailor will necessarily benefit from this procedure. However, I with my C-22 have recently reinstalled my Boom Kicker to lift the Boom as mentioned above. For upwind work in strong wind, I loosen the vang and main sheet and let the boom lift and then reposition the main sheet against the pressure of the Boom Kicker support rods. The boat heels less and weather helm is nearly eliminated. And then for downwind tacks, I apply the vang to provide added power to the main. An alternative to either a rigid vang or Boom Kicker is to use the topping lift. This can be just as effective, however, it is more difficult to set up and is not as automatic as a rigid vang or Boom Kicker.
Since one of the goals here is to “depower” the main, what you need to do is to get the main to spill wind from the top or head of the main sail. If you install a rigid vang or Boom Kicker that holds up the boom about ten degrees above horizontal with the vang released and the main sail affixed to the boom, you will develop an easy means by which the boom is raised to loosen tension or open the leech and therefore spill wind off the head of the main sail. This effectively depowers your main. Usually before sailors experience one of these annoying rounding up situations, they are well heeled, as they are in an upwind tack from about a beam reach up to close hauled. In this situation with either a rigid vang or Boom Kicker installed as described, the object is to release the vang and then main sheet and allow the boom to raise upward. After this, the main sheet should be tensioned again for the particular tack but only to where it encounters pressure from the spring of a rigid vang or the rods of a Boom Kicker. This action should get the vessel onto a more even keel yet still allow the main to be raised for power. It is a lot easier than resorting to a reef. What I say does come into conflict with the concept about tensioning the boom vang as noted in point two of the just previous post. However, the boom vang more so tensions or closes the leech than it flattens the sail. For power, it is probably best to either close or tension the leech, while opening or loosening the leech will depower the sail. Thus for upwind work into high winds where you need to lessen the heel of the boat, you do tighten the out haul and halyard or Cunningham, but the vang should probably be loosened. For downwind work, loosen the out haul and halyard or Cunningham and the vang should probably be tightened. This makes sense when you note that when going downwind, the leech in effect becomes the luff, that it is the edge of the sail that encounters the wind first, and therefore should be straight and tight. And of course, visa-versa for upwind tacks. Not every situation, in terms of vessel, sea conditions, wind, and sailor will necessarily benefit from this procedure. However, I with my C-22 have recently reinstalled my Boom Kicker to lift the Boom as mentioned above. For upwind work in strong wind, I loosen the vang and main sheet and let the boom lift and then reposition the main sheet against the pressure of the Boom Kicker support rods. The boat heels less and weather helm is nearly eliminated. And then for downwind tacks, I apply the vang to provide added power to the main. An alternative to either a rigid vang or Boom Kicker is to use the topping lift. This can be just as effective, however, it is more difficult to set up and is not as automatic as a rigid vang or Boom Kicker.
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