Riparian rights and Moorings

[KingAirDriver]

While some here seem to think you should suck it up, I don't. If the kid was just parking a boat there to get a little alone time with the girlfriend, fine. But he is not.

He is being a jerk, apparently a loud, obnoxious jerk.

If he just hung out once in a while and was quiet, that would be one thing. But the attitude and noise is a load of BS.

At 16 years old, I went to the neighbors house and politely asked permission to hike and track on their property. And when I was there, I also picked up the odd piece of trash or junk that went otherwise unnoticed. WHY does this little $h1t think he has a right to be a jerk?

And why do some people feel the need to defend this dirtbag?

It is NOT about property rights or the law.

It is about what is wrong and right.

It is about respect and personal responsibility. It is about honor and integrity.

Some little rich kid douche bag wants to go party and make a racket, but his daddy don't want it happening in front of his house, so he goes and makes camp in someone else's back yard.

That is just an example of blatant disrespect for others. The property owner has a right to privacy and peace and quiet.

I would go buy a cheap dinghy off craigslist and put it on the mooring next time his boat is not on it. Throw a cheap security camera up and if the little bastard tries to cut it away, call the Coast Guard. Get his a$$ locked up.

 

[tommays]

This is strange stuff to me because there are about xxxxx thousand boats moored in Northport harbor, Centerport Harbor,Huntington Harbor, Loyd Harbor , Oyster bay and Manhasset Bay

Now this is all the golden part of the Long Island's Gold Coast and amoung the most expensive waterfront homes in the USA without much issues perhaps because they were always active working waterfronts ?

 

[Chef2sail]

I became a harbormaster after my predecessor had retired but neglected to tell the town that he had for about ten years. The mooring situation was a mess. When people found out that there was going to be a real harbormaster, many people had an "Obama is going to take your guns.", kind of moment.

I got letters from a few people enclosing copies of their deeds which included wording, going back to the first recorded deed in some cases, saying that they had the right to put a mooring in the cove in front of their house.

I told them that I used to live in a house on Beacon Hill in Boston for which the deed provided that I had the right to graze cattle on Boston Common but that I had never seen any cows there. Things change and they would have to apply, register, and pay like everyone else.

That's funny actually. How far forward these land deeds can be carried with their restrictions or covenants in hem. We'd all still be Puritans if we had to do that.

 

[Winkfish]

I'm not talking about vandalizing or anything like that, but would you be able to just move the mooring to in front of his or the HOA property?

 

[Chef2sail]

While some here seem to think you should suck it up, I don't. If the kid was just parking a boat there to get a little alone time with the girlfriend, fine. But he is not.

He is being a jerk, apparently a loud, obnoxious jerk.

If he just hung out once in a while and was quiet, that would be one thing. But the attitude and noise is a load of BS.

At 16 years old, I went to the neighbors house and politely asked permission to hike and track on their property. And when I was there, I also picked up the odd piece of trash or junk that went otherwise unnoticed. WHY does this little $h1t think he has a right to be a jerk?

And why do some people feel the need to defend this dirtbag?

It is NOT about property rights or the law.

It is about what is wrong and right.

It is about respect and personal responsibility. It is about honor and integrity.

Some little rich kid douche bag wants to go party and make a racket, but his daddy don't want it happening in front of his house, so he goes and makes camp in someone else's back yard.

That is just an example of blatant disrespect for others. The property owner has a right to privacy and peace and quiet.

I would go buy a cheap dinghy off craigslist and put it on the mooring next time his boat is not on it. Throw a cheap security camera up and if the little bastard tries to cut it away, call the Coast Guard. Get his a$$ locked up.

He sucked you in.

Funny I see a rich property owner who now wants to control the water which is public in front of his castle because it ruins his view. He wouldn't feel any different if were was a mooring with a 40 ft Halberg Rassey moored there.

He has attempted to confuse the issue by making it about a disrespectful young person. If they are violating the noise or trash requirements he already has recourse....call the LEO.

He doesn't want anyone to ruin his view.....this is his real issue....he has admitted that so don't get off course. He would have the same problem if I dropped my hook and grilled and spent the night whenever I wanted to.

It's public property not his.......that's the Facts. Otherwise all the rich land barons would buy and you would ever be able o have any views.

 

[Ross]

I am glad that I am not the only person who thinks this amusing. How often and to what degree is this a problem? I am in a marina with boats in front, beside and behind me. When I want a clear view of the water I untie the boat and do what boats do best and find a quiet place to watch the sun go down and then rise the next morning.

 

[Steve Dion]

I find it interesting that someone could plant a mooring in a public waterway without a permit and maybe an environmental studyof the yellow belly spotted frog.

 

[Chef2sail]

I am glad that I am not the only person who thinks this amusing. How often and to what degree is this a problem? I am in a marina with boats in front, beside and behind me. When I want a clear view of the water I untie the boat and do what boats do best and find a quiet place to watch the sun go down and then rise the next morning.

Ross, just don't meander over to the Elk River which is close to you and where the OP owns an house and thinks he owns the river and anchorage.

 

[KingAirDriver]

I guess having lived in a motor coach and travelling around to various campgrounds and honoring the code of "quiet time", and growing up in a responsible, respectful family atmosphere gave me a sense of respecting others property.

Personally, I would NEVER anchor up in someones view, or close to the waters edge near a persons property. Not without permission. And I sure as he11 wouldn't be a jerk and party all night long either.

If I am going to anchor up, I do it out in never never land where I won't disturb someone.

And I am not a rich landowner. I work hard and pay to keep my boat at a dock in a marina.

I don't think landowners own the river, but I do think landowners have the right to enjoy what they worked hard for, and that I don't have the right to infringe on it. I didn't personally work hard for that plot of land and home, so what gives me the right to take it away from that person who did?

And what gives you the right to say he doesn't deserve to enjoy what he worked hard for?

How would you like some kid coming out front of your house at midnight and blast his music and make a mess? What the he11 difference does it make if it is on the street or the river?

 

[KingAirDriver]

This is strange stuff to me because there are about xxxxx thousand boats moored in Northport harbor, Centerport Harbor,Huntington Harbor, Loyd Harbor , Oyster bay and Manhasset Bay

Now this is all the golden part of the Long Island's Gold Coast and amoung the most expensive waterfront homes in the USA without much issues perhaps because they were always active working waterfronts ?

But how many of those boats are owned by disrespectful little punks blasting music and partying all night long?

 

[tommays]

But how many of those boats are owned by disrespectful little punks blasting music and partying all night long?

First this very dispute has been used and thrown out in court here and many other places with regard to trying to stop anchoring

To tell you the truth I am way out in the Northport field as I like the quite and the new GIANT HOME on land is the one that throws ALL THE LOUD PARTYS



In fact the building of the last few recent waterfront Mansions has caused most of the problems on LAND as they have blocked a whole bunch of very old views and had a huge effect on property values

We have some pretty restrictive height laws because of this issue

 

[Chris Patterson]

For what it's worth, here on the Cape Fear, we have 25% of usage from shore. The river is 400 feet across, so we can build docks 100' out, and have the "say so" in that area as well. The next 200' is probably the Corp of Engineer's, and the last 100' who knows. But I do know, for the exception of environmental concerns, we can do as we please on the first 100', all along the property line.

(That info is probably worth nothing)..

 

[Ross]

The Elk up where Witsend lives is about a half mile wide and is a terrible anchorage because it is the ship channal from the C&D canal and the wind also kicks up pretty rough water.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Who's really being the obnoxious one?!

That's really the question ... I find KAD being a little obnoxious for making so many wild assumptions about a person he has never met, and who is not offering his side of the story in this forum.

I don't blame Witz at all for his frustration, and by knowing him in this forum as a good man, I believe that he has a valid complaint. But to some people, hearing a little conversation noise out on the water at midnight is "partying all night". We don't really know about the noise and the frequency without personal experience now, do we? I haven't even seen any reference to his age, either. So why is KAD calling him pank ass, underage, drug user, etc? What does KAD know of this situation that we don't know. For all we know, the "kid" may be 25, hard-working, paying for all his toys and his parents may welcome his friends blowing off steam in the manner that people in their 20's typically do.

We are talking about a mooring, and not an anchorage, so I have a hard time believing that there aren't regulations and permits involved. I mean, we are talking about the People's Republic of Maryland, aren't we? Witz says he is part of a HOA. I know from experience that HOA's typically have rules up the wazzoo about what the residents can and can't do. Witz is on the water next to a community area, and I am making the assumption that there are numerous homes in the HOA that are not waterfront, but get to enjoy some of the benefits of waterfront living, based on community rules. I would think that he has come to expect that he will have to tolerate some disturbance from his neighbors based on his proximity to a community area. OTOH, being in a HOA, Witz must also know about the community rules. How do we know whether or not the HOA says that members can establish a mooring anywhere in front of the community, in keeping with clearances from docks, with access from the community waterfront property? If the HOA has a mere sliver of community property on the water and multiple inland lots that are part of the HOA, everybody can't be expected to keep their mooring strictly in front of the sliver of community property, can they? I suspect that most of the inland neighbors may not even own a boat, so moorings are really not an issue, except now we have one neighbor who wants to take advantage of their access to the water and Witz finds it a disturbance of the peace he has become accustomed to.

His lack of certainty suggests to me that he doesn't really know where he stands with regard to the community rules, or he doesn't want to admit that he doesn't have a good enough reason to object. The "kid" may have already researched the rules, or his parents did and told him his actions are within the HOA rules. The "kid's firmness regarding this matter may be interpreted as being "rude", but until somebody actually defines the rules, we just don't know, do we? I don't think I am coddling a miscreant thug ... I think the kid may know his rights (via his parents membership in the HOA), and may not be acting unreasonably ... there is considerable question about it without hearing his side of the story, don't you think?

This is a dispute between neighbors and fellow HOA members, not strangers, no? So Witz should address it accordingly. (In the name of full disclosure, I am only piecing together a scenerio based on the evidence presented, and I have no specific knowledge or interest in this matter, so I may be completely off the mark! )

 

[Chef2sail]

The Elk up where Witsend lives is about a half mile wide and is a terrible anchorage because it is the ship channal from the C&D canal and the wind also kicks up pretty rough water.

Yes the part the goes up to the C&D has lots of traffic and wakes, but there is also a part of the Elk which is very protected starbord of Welch Point and offshoots the C&D entrance where swing keel and shoal keel sailboats can travel and anchor as well. Lots of houses line the banks up there and some of the small sailboats like the 22-25 footers can get up in this area.

 

[KingAirDriver]

Sorry for coming across obnoxious, but in this day and age of mamby pamby PC all over the place, I see someone who's property and personal rights are being infringed upon by someone with a piss poor attitude, I tend to get my panties in a twist.

And a few folks jump him up and down for questioning the kid's right to do what he did.

I get wound up real quick when an individual's property rights are being infringed upon. Even if it might not be a real big deal.

I was raised to ask permission and to behave myself, and not to give elders any flack.

Most of the things I said are merely "expressions" to draw attention to a potential "other side of the story".

I highly doubt that if this kid/guy was an upstanding, hard working citizen, he would behave in this manner.

At 25 I was an airline pilot with the lives of hundreds of people in my hands on a daily basis. At 25, or younger, I didn't throw parties or disrespect others property and rights. No matter what his age, he should be a responsible person.


If someone told me what he thinks is "right" in the manner this individual did, I am sorry, my first impression is that he is a punk. Even if he is 45, he is still a punk.

Converse like an adult, be respectful, and can come to a mutual agreement.

Be nice, get nice. Simple. Be a punk, get treated like one.

If I was the landowner, and confronted this guy I would have said this,

"Hello my name is xxx, I just wanted to chat with you about the mooring you put in front of my dock. It is encroaching on my view, and the noise at night disturbs me and my family. Is there any chance you can move it farther out, or up or down river a little to return my view. And can we talk about keeping the noise down after 10pm?"

And if the person answered with anything other than, "Sure, I can do that, I am limited as to where I would like to moor, what do you suggest? And I can certainly keep the noise down during quiet hours, sir."

If an answer other than what I would expect to hear from another respectful person was received, there would be problems.


So my words are harsh. Oops. My bad.

What this comes down to is respect for others. Just being a nice guy. From the sounds of it, this kid is NOT a nice guy. Just a punk with an attitude.

I am not going to apologize for the harshness of my words, sometimes it takes someone to say what needs to said, and not sugar coat it so it sounds nice and pretty.

I put myself in the homeowners shoes. If it were me, I would be RIPPIN pissed.

If someone in my neighborhood was constantly partying, raising hell and making noise, and not respecting quiet hours, I would say something to them too.

You say he doesn't own the river, but he does. He is a taxpayer just like everyone else.

Look at it this way, would you like someone to dump a billboard in front of your living room window on public property? That is no different than what happened here.

So, my words are harsh, but sometimes necessary. I just had the courage to say them.

 

[tommays]

I think we need to know the rules in the area and especially the HOA rules BEFORE we get all upset


The noise is obnoxious and seems and obvious violation BUT in the HOA areas I have seen the POOL for example can have some pretty early and late hours

My parents retired in and HOA area and I have lived in one and as such you do NOT have normal rights and gave them up when you agree to live in and HOA area and they have boards to resolve disputes

If you want to get crazy about noise live NEAR ANY SCHOOL here now that soccer is so popular and your block now gets filled up with cars EVERY WEEKEND

Everybody new the were living near a school NOT a soccer stadium

 

[Scott T-Bird]

So KAD, you've heard the other side of the story? You know the property rights in this circumstance? I thought not ... It takes courage to spout off in a forum using an anonymous name?!?!? Yowser, now I've heard everything!

 

[KingAirDriver]

Hey, I am trying to back up one of our fellow sailors on here! Back up one of US. The property rights that are on the books are of no consequence here. Most of the time they are all but worthless lawyer derived drivel anyway.

What matters is what is right and what is wrong.

What is right: Asking permission and being respectful of others and their property.

What is wrong: Being a jerk, making noise and blocking someones hard earned view.

If he was treated with respect, and was able to solve this problem on his own, do you honestly think he would drag it out on here for us Monday morning quarterbacks to endlessly debate? He is looking for a bit of backing, a bit of a confidence boost and ideas on how to handle this sticky situation.

We all can joke about what we would do if it was us in the situation. What kind of actions we would take to solve the issue. None of us would actually do anything illegal, but we all talk a big game sometimes. What he can and should do, is confront the problem head on and stand up for his personal rights.

Why are you taking the kids side on this? Do you know all the sides of the story on this? Keep in mind you are also posting under an anonymous name.

Or would you rather I delete my comments and re-post something more politically correct, a bit easier to swallow for the general masses? A bit less controversial?

 

[Charles Erwin]

King Air says

"Hey, I am trying to back up one of our fellow sailors on here! Back up one of US. The
property rights that are on the books are of no consequence here. Most of the time
they are all but worthless lawyer derived drivel anyway."

This statement is unmitigated baloney.

When folks can't come to an accord, rules apply and those rules get followed. Considering we have well over 200 years of property law development and experience -- one can hardly conclude this historical effort amounts to "drivel."

King Air Crasher is completely out of touch with both how to do it and the well thought through history of law that backs up an effective strategy.

The solution here is completely obvious - and so is the strategy to achieve a solution.

Charles