Right of way question

[gettinthere]

2 boats under sail
Both boats sailing on starboard tack
Boat A is sailing 160 degrees downwind
Boat B is sailing 60 degrees upwind
Boat A is off the starboard bow of Boat B

Who has right of way?

I cant find this specific answer in the searching I have done.

 

[justsomeguy]

Boat B.

 

[LakeMurraySailor]

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in, but the way I understand it, once an overlap is established, the leeward boat has the right of way(boat B)!

 

[williamtl]

Trick question, there is no right of way except in very limited inLand questions.

Without looking up the rule I believe Boat B is stand on because it is headed upwind, boat A headed down wind in these conditions is give way.

 

[Hello Below]

Give her a shot. I certainly did not ace it.
http://www.raynorshyn.com/NavRules/Default.asp

 

[Davidasailor26]

A must give way to B, but as others have said, more reading is recommended. For example rule 12.ii of the Coast Guard published Navigation Rules at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf. Or in a race see rule 11 of the Racing Rules of Sailing at http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/ISAFRRS20132016Final-[13376].pdf

 

[Skipper]

It's not a trick question. The rules cover this scenario:
Starboard tack is stand on.
-Starboard stand on
-Port abort
Both on Starboard, then who is downwind. Leeward boat gets leeway of course. Doesn't matter exact direction, one of them is downwind prior to the intersection. Unless they are in-line, or diagonally intersecting at precisely the angles of the wind, in which case you revert to speed. That is, which one is overtaking. The overtaking vessel is give way.

There is a safety net in the rules. That is, (paraphrase) all vessels must try to avoid contact, even if they have the "right of way". When in doubt, steer about.

So if you're both on starboard tack, and both at the same distance from the wind, and both going 6.371 knots, then just turn the stinkin' wheel.

 

[williamtl]

It's not a trick question.

The trick part was Right of Way, which doesn't exist in boating.

The remainder is application of the rules as you state.

 

[Skipper]

The trick part was Right of Way, which doesn't exist in boating.
.

Got it.
Like if a rooster lays an egg on an A-frame barn, which direction will it roll?

 

[woodster]

Got it.
Like if a rooster lays an egg on an A-frame barn, which direction will it roll?

those stupid roosters

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Sorry for the reaction. I'm done here.

Your reaction was completely appropriate .

Don't care how long you've been on this site, we all have questions from time to time and NO ONE deserves to be shot down for asking.

And don't YOU go saying "I'm done here". That IS unacceptable from someone with 1,358 posts and 29 likes.

 

[BlowMeAway]

It's not a trick question. The rules cover this scenario:
Starboard tack is stand on.
-Starboard stand on
-Port abort
Both on Starboard, then who is downwind. Leeward boat gets leeway of course.
So if you're both on starboard tack, and both at the same distance from the wind, and both going 6.371 knots, then just turn the stinkin' wheel.

Best response comes from Skipper! I totally agree...with the exception of the potential starboard tack intersection occurring at the last obvious ball in a mooring field of a popular resort. In that case douse the sails early and full throttle ahead. Wind direction no longer becomes an issue at this point and even we respectful sailors can become senseless power boaters.

 

[Kings Gambit]

2 boats under sail
Both boats sailing on starboard tack
Boat A is sailing 160 degrees downwind
Boat B is sailing 60 degrees upwind
Boat A is off the starboard bow of Boat B

Who has right of way?

I cant find this specific answer in the searching I have done.

I'm not sure you received a generally "useful" answer here. If two boats, each sailing on starboard tack, are in a crossing situation, the boat sailing closer to the wind is the stand on vessel. That would be "B" in your example. It's that simple.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Get,

This is why the COLREGS have Rules of the Road & these differ by location.
Also, I do not see which area you sail in.

The downside is, nothing is concrete in the Rules. It's more or less subjective to situations & the rules can change depending on location. Western River Rules differ somewhat from other areas.

Are you a vessel up-bound bound or, a down-bound vessel & is there an upbound or downbound current? Are you under inland rules/coastal or international? There are different rules for these meeting/overtaking & crossing situations & the type of channels. Knowing which applies can make a BIG difference in your setup course.

The rule of thumb is, that the overtaking vessel has to give right of way.
Then there is the "Pecking Order" based on size/type & what the boat is engaged in. Then, let's add submarines, seaplanes & less than 16 footers and then, the rules can also differ by day-n-night.

Do you see where the rules can be in a grey area inland vs. coastal/international & vice-versa? For you, the overtaking boat should NOT have impeded your course however, location rules can be somewhat confusing.

Look up the COLREGS for your area & see a 360° view of how it all fits together for you pal. I myself, have a COLREG copy on my boat for several areas & reference these just to make sure.

The downside I see is that, if the other guy doesn't know the rules..........
then.........., do the rules apply or, is it now just every man for himself at this juncture?

Herein lies the conundrum & the the GREY AREA I spoke of.

CR

 

[agprice22]

I believe the rule is not arbitrarily written. The windward boat has the advantage of room to manuever. With boats on the same tack, the leeward boat is at the disadvantage of any lee shore or lee obstacle. Therefore, the leeward vessel should not be limited by being the give way vessel.
This may not occur in open ocean very often, but here, on the lakes, it happens regularly.
That said, make your intentions obvious and early, and regardless of stand on status, AVOID COLLISION.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I think the now interesting question is how does boat A give way to boat B? Depending on how close they get, boat A can: 1) bear off further, possibly even gybe, to avoid boat B's line of travel; 2) head up some, and thus speed up, to cross ahead of boat "B", or 3) if very close so neither of those two options work, swing hard to weather and then tack out the way of boat B.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I decided to read this thread just out of curiosity.... Y'all are thinking only in terms of sailboats and trying to apply the racing rules to non-racing situations. The racing rules work during races because all the the boats are sailboats and on a "closed" course that isn't supposed to have any interference from other traffic (like it ever actually works that way!). But when you're just out for sail, you're subject to the COLREGS and Inland Rules that apply to apply to all vessels, power and sail...doesn't matter whether one or both is under sail or whether one or both are under power.and those rules sayeth that in a crossing situation, the vessel to starboard is the stand-on vessel...port vessel is give-way. If giving way is gonna be a problem, that's what a VHF radio is for. It's amazing how many problems can be prevented with comunication and a little courtesy.

Btw...I had the dubious honor of being the only powerboater to chair the race committee at my YC...had that job for 5 years. I suspect it was only because my boat was such a great committee boat.

 

[SFS]

Peggy - So in the above situation (if I have diagrammed it right in my mind), Vessel A is the stand on vessel?

 

[Davidasailor26]

But when you're just out for sail, you're subject to the COLREGS and Inland Rules that apply to apply to all vessels, power and sail...doesn't matter whether one or both is under sail or whether one or both are under power.and those rules sayeth that in a crossing situation, the vessel to starboard is the stand-on vessel...port vessel is give-way.

Are you sure about that Peggy? See pages 26-27 of the navigation rules at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf.

 

[MitchM]

1) Boat US would no doubt be very interested in those posters here who believe 'right of way' is not a nautical concept: BOAT US has dedicated a fair amount of effort to this topic:

Right of Way Rules - Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide
www.boatus.org/guide/navigation_1.html
Knowing a few, simple right of way rules will help you avoid a collision. ... The Navigation Rules distinguish one vessel from another by both its design, and by its ...