Rewiring masthead and forward steaming light

[PK123]

OK ...next project on the refurb ...the steaming light half way up the mast is working just fine ...but the masthead anchor light is completely dead and went to an old fuse panel (labelled up) . Ive done a continuity check on the cables in the fuse panel and its an open loop on the masthead.
Ive the undone the deck gland at the base of the mast and the wiring insulation has perished so much so that the bare wires are exposed (existing four cables in the insulation).
In short im going to replace the wires and lights for the sake of longevity, electrical safety and certainty . Tips and advice would be greatly received - from double halyards on the bosuns chair to wiring strategy . Ive heard of using the mast as a ground with the lights connected locally , using a common ground and having three wires, as well as an alternative of running a single four core cable with positive and negative for each light. Thoughts and experience welcome! Mast is about 30ft

 

[dLj]

I found it easier to take the mast down and do the rewiring with the mast on saw horses.

I personally do not like using the mast as ground.

I ran a mast head tricolor and anchor light, a steaming light and deck flood and a mast head VHF antenna. For the mast head lights I used a common ground and for the steaming and deck flood another common ground. The mast I was working on had two channels for a sliding sleeve where the wires went but only had one sleeve. I found a way to get all wires inside that one sleeve but it was sure tight.

One trick I did was I ran a tracer line from each location, mast head and mid- mast where steaming and deck flood were located. When running all the lines back in, I had to pull both tracer lines. It was time consuming but worked out well. If you could get a couple helpers it would help

dj

 

[dlochner]

Absolutely do not use the mast as a ground. You will be inviting all kinds of corrosion problems.

Use a minimum of 16ga wire, not so much for the current carrying capacity, but for the strength. The wire has to support its own weight. While individual wires can be run, it is faster and easier to use triplex, which is three wires in a common sheath or duplex which is 2 wires in a common sheath. The sheathing helps to support the weight and adds chafe protection.

It is far easier to work on a mast when it is horizontal and 3 feet off the ground than vertical. This will also give you the chance to inspect all the rigging and fittings and replace any that are worn.

Pulling a mousing line up the mast with the wire will make future work easier. Use the old wire to pull the string up the mast and then the new wire. Do not use nylon line, it is too stretchy.

 

[JBP-PA]

Use continous or double length mouse/ messenger wires. That way if your messenger to wire connection fails halfway through a pull, you still have the messenger in place.

 

[JBP-PA]

I used one cable for the top of the mast (2 wire in my case, I do not have a tricolor on top) , and a separate cable to the spreader/steaming light location (3 wire in my case for steaming light plus deck light). I couldn't think of a good way to use only one cable and split out wires at the spreader location, but I wanted the protection of sheathed cable. I wouldn't do individual wires unless you have a conduit, and maybe not even then.

 

[PK123]

@JBP-PA ....Im thinking on similar lines - to use two duplex sheathed cables to each light fitting inside the mast but to then terminate them by joining with heat shrink connectors into a single quadruple cable so that theres just one single cable exiting the mast hole at its base. It seems that a single cable into a deck gland is the most likely to remain watertight (rather than a multi cable deck gland fitting - less is more!) . I can run that cable through the interior and split it out at the fuse panel to switch each circuit independently.....thats the plan anyway!

 

[PK123]

Use a minimum of 16ga wire, not so much for the current carrying capacity, but for the strength.

Thanks Dave - Theres quite a voltage drop on the cable run which will be 120ft (30ft up the mast + another 30 or so feet to the fuse panel so 60ft single trip and 120ft there and back for voltage drop calcs) ....so Im anticipating that I'll need 12 g . Although navigation and anchor lighting are AYBC 'critical circuits' (and the voltage drop should arguably be based on 3% rather than 10%) the current is way less than 5amps - Ill refine the calcs once Ive chose the light fittings and their load to verify the final gauge (It seems a good idea to use the lightest gauge that will do the job!).

 

[dlochner]

Thanks Dave - Theres quite a voltage drop on the cable run which will be 120ft (30ft up the mast + another 30 or so feet to the fuse panel so 60ft single trip and 120ft there and back for voltage drop calcs) ....so Im anticipating that I'll need 12 g .

If you are using an incandescent bulb, that would be an issue. Change to an LED that draws less than 1 an and you can go with the less expensive and lighter 16ga.

30 feet from the base of the mast to the panel seems a bit long on a 27' boat. You can also cheat a bit and run 12 ga to the mast and 16 or 14 up the mast. Just be sure to fuse for the smaller wire.

 

[JBP-PA]

Definitely go with LED. All you need to do is switch the bulb. They only need a fraction of an amp so 16ga is more than enough.

 

[dlochner]

Definitely go with LED. All you need to do is switch the bulb.

Many people do this, however, the practice comes with some controversy. Coast Guard approved lighting fixtures are approved based on the fixture and the bulb. Changing the bulb invalidates the approval as the light may not longer meet CG standards. Making an informed decision on this requires delving into CFR 46 and the specific lighting requirements, not just the COREGS. And then we all get to play dockside attorneys.

 

[RitSim]

if running in conduit, get Wire Lube from Home Depot. This is a water based lubricant made for this task

 

[JBP-PA]

Changing from, say, an AquaSignal incandescent bulb to an AquaSignal LED bulb is hardly likely to change the characteristics. I sincerely doubt the Coast Guard will ever take a luminosity meter to a pleasure craft.

Yea, I know the argument: If someone crashes into you and you don't have insurance and they are dishonest and they take you to court and they have a better lawyer than you, they could use the fact that you used LED bulb in an incandescent fixture against you. If that's of concern to you, then get official LED fixtures.

 

[jssailem]

I agree with @JBP-PA regarding the use of LED’s. I chose the Aqua Signal units. I swapped the bulbs out for LED’s. The lights can be seen at the 2nm range. The fact that AS did not certify their lights with the CG was not that they did not work. It was an economic decision.

I used 3 wire 14awg up the mast to power the lights on my 40’plus mast. The voltage drop is negligible at the amps used by the LED’s. A single 3wire is more compact. You can wire all the lights at once. The green is ground. The red and black or yellow serve as positive leads. You wire the switches to the power side and you. Label the wires at the terminals. It is a simple task and minimizes the number of wires and the weight in the mast.

 

[rgranger]

Yea, I know the argument: If someone crashes into you and you don't have insurance and they are dishonest and they take you to court and they have a better lawyer than you, they could use the fact that you used LED bulb in an incandescent fixture against you. If that's of concern to you, then get official LED fixtures.

Is this really a thing???? I know it is the lore on the net and I've seen this argument many times but... do we have an actual court case where someone (not at fault) was denied compensation because the defendant’s lawyer opened up the steaming light and found an LED bulb in the plaintiff’s fixture?

I can imagine a judge siding with the defendant if they could prove the replacement bulb was not bright enough but I find it hard to believe a judge would toss an argument based upon a replacement bulb that was missing a USCG stamp. It defies logic.

Any judges on this formum want to chime in?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I don't like using incandescent fixtures with LED bulbs so I have never compromised. I just spend the money for the Marinebeam LED fixtures. If you are going to be out in the ocean at night or in an area with large ships, I think it makes sense to have a tricolor at the top of the mast. Marinebeam has an anchor light / tricolor combination that works great. It gives you anchor light/tricolor/SOS in one fixture. Run a duplex cable to the top of the mast to service it.

In the middle of the mast, I have the steaming light/deck light combo. I see no need for spreader lights ... they just add complication and the deck light washes the deck with light very nicely. Run a triplex up to that fixture. The ground is common in the fixture for both lights.

At the base of the mast, you can splice the 2 grounds together and bundle 4 wires in a 4-prong plug. You have a positive lead from the duplex to your anchor/tricolor combo and you have 2 positive leads in the triplex for the steaming/deck light combo. The 2 grounds get spliced above the plug so that you just have 1 ground from the plug to the panel. It's very easy and works fine. Do not ground on the mast. The ground should go back to the panel, but you only need one ground. You should have separate switches on the panel for:

1. Running lights
2. Anchor light / tricolor
3. Steaming Light
4. Deck Light

If you are running with tricolor, you simply don't use your running lights. The masthead tricolor is activated at the anchor light switch per the instructions (it's easy and doesn't fail). There is no reason to have the anchor light on with tricolor so there is no conflict.

Most people would say that it is improper or illegal to use your running lights at deck level and your tricolor simultaneously, but I can think of no reason why not if you want to in a busy area with both shipping and small boat traffic.

Smart LED Tri-Color, Anchor Light, and Strobe

Smart Switching LED Tri-Color / Anchor / SOS Strobe Light, aqua signal, sailboat, hella, mast, perko

store.marinebeam.com

or you could use this if preferred: LED Tri-Color and All-Around Anchor Navigation Stack Light
I have the smart LED fixture with no complaints.

LED Masthead/Foredeck Combination Light

IP67 USCG Certified 3NM LED Combination Masthead Steaming and Deck Light

store.marinebeam.com

 

[dlochner]

Is this really a thing???? I know it is the lore on the net and I've seen this argument many times but... do we have an actual court case where someone (not at fault) was denied compensation because the defendant’s lawyer opened up the steaming light and found an LED bulb in the plaintiff’s fixture?

I can imagine a judge siding with the defendant if they could prove the replacement bulb was not bright enough but I find it hard to believe a judge would toss an argument based upon a replacement bulb that was missing a USCG stamp. It defies logic.

Any judges on this formum want to chime in?

It is certainly something the armchair internet lawyers sometimes talk about.

From the physics point of view, I have heard that some LED bulbs do not have the LED in the same position relative to the fixture's lens as the original incandescent filament. Although the lights might have the same candlepower, the position of the light creating parts are not in the same position which impairs the lights ability to meet the CG requirements. The light emitting from the fixture would not be focused correctly. This seems plausible, however, I've never tested the theory. For a Steaming Light, there is no need to use an LED as the light is only on when the engine is running and there is plenty of power.

33 CFR 183.810 is the relevant law governing CG light approval. It is based on the ABYC A-16 standard which I found available to the mere sum of $130.

If someone choses to replace an incandescent bulb with an LED, I think the prudent action is to ensure the light meets the alignment, color, and brightness required by COLREGS and not assume it is OK. And judging from this USCG Document we should not naively believer the OEM lights meet the standards.

More than three years after the effective date of updated Coast Guard regulations requiring manufacturers of recreational boats who install navigation lights to install lights with third party certification, confusion continues. Although navigation lights were the topic of recent writings in the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) Newsletter, and the subject of briefings at industry gatherings, Coast Guard and NMMA factory visits continue to identify numerous issues of navigation light fixtures and installations that do not comply with Federal regulations.

(emphasis added)

From Marine Beam:

PUTTING TO BED THE INTERNET MYTHS: The USCG, COLREG and EU test agencies do not certify standalone light bulbs (LED or incandescent), and they can only certify that a specific fixture, complete with a specific OEM light source, meets the requirements. This means that anytime you replace a bulb in a certified fixture with any kind of aftermarket non-OEM bulb it is no longer technically a "certified fixture". BUT, please note that there no USCG requirement what-so-ever for the end-user (you) to have certified fixtures on-board. None, nada. This is a requirement for boat-builders and dealers only, and the fact is that these bulbs are the brightest LED replacement bulbs available, and will easily meet visibility and color requirements for yachts up to 65 feet. They are not only brighter, but they are much more likely to be on, don't suffer from lumen depreciation, and are much more visible than the OEM incandescent bulb. They don't have a USCG certification as stand-alone bulbs, or within any specific fixtures. These bulbs have not been tested in your specific fixtures, and we have no control over how you may use this product. Therefore, it must be the user's decision alone whether to use this product to retrofit existing fixtures which will be used for navigation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens

 

[pgandw]

Not a big fan of masthead anchor lights, but then the biggest boat I have owned is an ODay 25 with a 3ft draft. With a shoal draft sailboat, I'm anchoring where dinghies and powerboats often venture - and these people are not looking up 30+ft for an anchor light. So I hang an anchor light from the forestay a little above head level. A personal preference that works for me. Your mileage may vary.

Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P
Yeopim Creek, Albemarle Sound, NC

 

[Ward H]

I've owned two keel boats. On my O'day, my only charging source for the Grp27 battery was the 9.9 outboard, which wasn't much. So I switched to LEDs. Considering the 30 something year old corroded wiring and contacts in the OEM fixtures it made sense to me to swap out the fixture with a sealed LED fixture.
It was an easier decision on my C30 as the lenses on all the mast light fixtures were opaque due to UV damage. I went with the Marine Beam Tri Color plus Anchor light and their Steaming/Deck combo light. It also made sense to change the bow light to LED after it somehow got smashed against a piling the first month I had my boat.

 

[rgranger]

after it somehow got smashed against a piling the first month I had my boat.

Could have been worse...

 

[Tally Ho]

I replaced all of my interior cabin lights from incandescent to LED using some very inexpensive LED’s from Amazon…

Amazon.com

My only issue was I ordered the wrong “warmth” color on the first batch (too blue-white…cold). The warmer ones look great, provide the same amount of light and almost no power draw

I haven’t used LED‘s in my nav light holders, but I would get quality LED’s for that application.

My masthead Anchor light is LED (was that way when I bought Tally Ho).


Greg