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Revenge is sweet

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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I love to anchor in a bight on the sassafras River about 500 yards from the marked channel. many of the powerboats using the river are traveling close to forty miles per hour. That is about 60 feet per second. In about 30 seconds one of those boats could change course and collide with Bietzpadlin. I don't know about you but I am not agile enough to start my engine , ship my anchor and maneuver to avoid ramming in thirty seconds. Therefore your premis is flawed.
Further, it would not be posible to determine if he was or was not going to correct his course until he had closed to a critical distance.
 

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
Let's say Texas is a well trained sailor who is on duty as a lookout in a becalmed sailboat. By the time he realizes this power boat bearing down on him at a high rate of speed from the rear quarter, what time does he have and then what would he do? By the time he got any words out of his mouth, the powerboat would of put the period at the end of his sentence. Forget everyone else's reaction time, they wouldn't of had time to turn around.
By the time Texas realized the PB was bearing down on them at a high rate of speed and he blurted out Holly Crap Batman, the boat would of been on top of him.

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Feb 26, 2004
21,959
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Hogwash

You all are missing the point. I am not saying that a pwr boat operator speeding at night is not at fault. What I am saying is that every skipper who goes on the water has a duty and a resposibility to be clear headed and keep a sharpe lookout so that he / or she does not find themselves in a situation where there is a bad outcome. You are making my point, a boat that is becalmed must be more alert for pwr boats especially at night. And no skipper that either operates or allows somebody else to operate his boat while impaired is taking care of his crew. Folks step onboard my boat, it is my responsibility to bring them back safely, that means keeping a sharpe lookout, taking appropreate action and knowing when it isn't the time to go out.
I join the chorus of "calling you out."

I understand your basic concept, and do not disagree with it. Sure, we're all responsible for our actions, our boats and our guests.

The major point you're missing here is this: the powerboat was NOT operating with ANY responsibility at all and was the overtaking vessel.

Many have noted that the sailboat could NOT have ever gotten out of the way of the powerboat.

Bismarck's previous DUI is or should have been inadmissable in court, and has no bearing on the incident that particular night.

Perdock was seen in a bar right before the accident.

Regardless of blood alcohol levels, the sheriff in the speedboat was operating recklessly and hit what was essentially an object that was NOT moving. And, again, was NOT anchored.

Please, understand that your points, while generally well intentioned, are completely wrong and misapplied in this instance.

Think of it this way: if it was you down below, your friend at the helm and YOUR wife who got murdered, how'd you feel about the sheriff?
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,005
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Maybe We're Talking About Two Different Things...

One thing is negligence, another is care. I think what Texas may be saying is that it's irresponsible in general to be even slightly impaired while underway in those conditions. However, as an arbitrator for fifteen years, I would have been hard pressed to ascribe any negligence to the operator or owner of the sailboat from what I understand of the facts. In other words, it's hard to understand how one's drinking would foreseeably result in being run over by a power boat as occurred in this case. That's not the same as saying drinking on a boat on a dark night in drifting conditions isn't adhering to a reasonable standard of care for one's crew. Two different things in my opinion.
 
Feb 26, 2004
21,959
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
One other thing

Texas' approach seems to me to be "blaming the victim for being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Also hogwash.

When I go out I expect others to maintain their responsibilities, as I do mine.

I do not go out planning on playing dodgeball with irresponsible idiots.
 
Jul 1, 2004
567
Hunter 40 St. Petersburg
Well Rick, we ARE talking about two different points

and we (I) get his. I even said I did.

Drinking and driving = bad. We get it.

Unfortunately, Texas' point seems to vacillate between that and . . .

. . . the BAC onboard the sailboat made a difference because it prevented them from taking some sort of effective action. I notice that he doesn't address the realities of why there probably wasn't any avoidance action that could be taken (impaired or not.)

So I guess he doesn't get that point.

He'll be easy to spot at night though. Watch for flares.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,196
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
thankyou bouys--i was gonna say something but i decided i didnt wanna get kicked off forum quite yet---- so i waited for y'all to verbalize the words i was thinking in a nicer fashion-_thankyou .
 
Dec 9, 2006
694
Oday 22 Hickory, NC
Actually my first thought on texas is that he or someone he knows or is related to might have a stake in the outcome of the civil trial!
Jack
 
Jul 1, 2004
567
Hunter 40 St. Petersburg
Actually, I'm going to apologize

for the flare remark in my last post. It was snarky and uncalled for.

I enjoy a good debate (as if you couldn't tell) and while I'm completely on the other side of the fence from Texas I'm sure he's a nice guy and I really don't mean to be insulting.

So, I'm sorry.

Texas, if you're ever in St. Pete the first round's on me and we'll talk about it some more.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Actually, I'm going to apologize

I believe that white flares are called for to warn of danger and red flares are for distress. I have looked but haven't found white flares readily available.
 
Jul 27, 2009
54
Hunter 1981 30 Lake Travis
Just to set the record straight, I am not a lawyer. I am a retired naval officer who has been on the wrong side of the table in an accident. My point is and always will be we take on responsibility when we skipper a boat. It has been my experience that on lakes, it is "buy it, launch it, drive it". Where skippers that go open ocean or are around comm. traffic have a higher understanding for the rules of the road. Which is why it is so important to keep a sharp & yes unimpaired lookout when operating where "go fast" boats can cause you problems. I was out on the lake when the accident happened. And said at the time too much speed, too much alcohol and not enough attention. Adm Rickover was a tough guy to work for, but he taught us that "things" don't just happen. Two skippers didn't operate thier boat prudently that night and it resulted in a death and like it or not both are responsible for that. Blame is for lawyers and juries to decide. But as a responsible skipper we have to ask what could we have done differently that night? And it isn't as easy as laying all the blame on a power boat going to fast no matter how convient it might be. And for the record, I never voted for the DA or sheriff, I have my own axe to grind with that office.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Occassionally a highway patrol officer stops a motorist on the shoulder of the highway and with all of his lights working gets rear ended by another motorist. I doubt anyone could sustain an argument placing fault on the highway patrol for not taking evasive action.
 

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
From the way I read Texas Lake Sailor,
" Adm Rickover was a tough guy to work for, but he taught us that "things" don't just happen. Two skippers didn't operate thier boat prudently that night and it resulted in a death and like it or not both are responsible for that."

From the testomony I have read, it sounds like the skipper did the prudent thing and that was put someone at the helm, so he could go below and relieve himself.
Many nights just drifting in the moonlight with some wine and my wife, I've been known to close my eyes for brief periods of time. Look out hell, on a becalmed night with my woman and some vino, drifting. There's only one thing I'm looking for and that is more time.


"Which is why it is so important to keep a sharp & yes unimpaired lookout when operating where "go fast" boats can cause you problems."

I can't see where this would of made any difference at all. This drunk go fast boater is gonna run your arse over whether your looking straight at him or sleeping. You could hit him between the eyes with your flare-gun and you'd still be run over. He's not even looking for anything.
That would be like putting up do not enter signs on a highway exit ramp so drunks don't go the wrong way. How intelligent it that? Blow their tires out, that'll stop 'em. One way spikes.
.

I understand it takes at least two to fight and that sometimes there is an innocent one of the two.
Rear end somebody with your car and see whos the guilty and who's the innocent. Why is it any different with boaters? Somebody has to explain that one to me.
Sounds like alcohol is what really was on trial here. It's the only platform for the 100% guilty party to build off of.
And who said justice is blind..

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Jan 24, 2008
293
Alerion Express 28 Oneida Lake, NY
My take on TLS' point is that the sailors were partially at fault because they didn't stay home that night.
???
Paul
 
Jul 27, 2009
54
Hunter 1981 30 Lake Travis
If they were going to operate a boat in an impaired condition then yes, everyone would have been better off. Clear lake is the largest natural lake solely within Ca. It is over 26 mile long and over 5 miles wide, except at the narrows. It has very good line of sight and sound travels well over the water. I have spent too many years operating a nuclear sub and surface ship to excuse or say that operating a vessel any vessel while impaired is a good thing or not risky. Who caused the accident a power boat going to fast. Who might have been able to avoid it if they were not impaired? A sailboat crew that was attentive and thought through would happen on that night.
You think it was okay to leave the dock when they were impaired? Ok. Just about anybody can drive a boat when nothing is happening, it is those times when "something happens" that tells the tale. You have to assume things will happen and be prepared, my rule, there have to be two sober folks that can skipper the boat at all times. I don't want to be run down by an impaired helmsman on my own boat.
 

mel22

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Oct 1, 2010
66
Hunter 22 Lake Dardanelle
Texas, This can go on for ever and you will never convince people that what happend that night on that lake was anyones fault but the motor boat opperators. Me included.
On another point, as a long time employ of the peoples, what do you think about the one sided responce of the laws in this case, Give the sail boater a sobriety test but not the motor boat opperators. As A 45 year employ of the people who swore to uphold the laws and protect the constitution I for one am insenced by this. If for no other reason, I personaly think that ever law enforcment person involved in this case should be serving life for murder and obstruction of justice.




The strongs job is to protect the weak
 

John

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Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
First: Maybe you could make the argument that both were at fault, although I don't think so, but there's no way that Dinius alone was at fault. Yet the prosecutor charged Dinius alone. There is absolutely no way at all that that can be justified... No way whatsoever. Impossible. Anybody who tries to do so is simply prejudiced in favor of the prosecutor. Simple as that.

Second: We should note that 12 people who heard all the evidence decided that Dinius wasn't at fault at all. It's true that juries sometimes get it wrong, but the prosecution usually has far more resources, so I don't see any reason to think those 12 people, after having heard more evidence than any of us have heard, was mistaken in this case.
 
Jul 27, 2009
54
Hunter 1981 30 Lake Travis
Mel, Never would I excuse the power boater's actions. But remember this he was given a blood test at the hospital and it was O.0. Before everyone starts with conspiracy, you simply can't keep that many folks quiet, somebody will always talk. The case was investigated by another county at the sheriffs request. Did they charge it correctly in the DA's office no. As for 12 folks seeing the case and getting it wrong, there are so many cases that show it happens, which is why the lawyers have a term for it, jurry nullification. Prove official misconduct, tampering or other criminal acts and I'll join you in arresting them. All of that doesn't excuse the operators of a sailboat from being impaired.
 
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