Rescue in SoCal's King Harbor

[DayDreamer41]

Wouldn't it make sense at one point feeling the loss of control to backwind the jib? at least that would get the bow moving in the right direction. I know its easy to arm chair this one, but he must have known that he was losing it further out from the jetty.

 

[Johann]

Apparently they were inbound and when they attempted to tack, they were unable to get the bow through the wind. Probably just before the video starts. That would explain the jib fluttering, they released it during the tack (too early maybe?).

“They said what happened was they were sailing in and went to make the turn and the wind was just too strong,” Currie said. “They went to fire up the engine and there was no way the engine would keep up with the wind.”

http://tbrnews.com/news/redondo_bea...cle_7636ee0e-ffc7-11e7-b500-37b82a8c3dc5.html

 

[Parsons]

Watched the video several times, and agree with the posts about never, ever wanting to be near hard things in my boat. What's amazing is the first-responders. We never give these guys enough credit, note the following from the article about the Redondo Beach Harbor Patrol rescuer "... I've been on those types of calls when the boat is broken apart,” [Grant] Currie said. “I'm surprised it didn't break apart.”. Not only was this guy willing to jump into the water in that mess, but it's not his first time! I think you could excuse someone for believing they would be OK if they had never seen weather before, but to know what it was like and still be willing to do the job is AMAZING!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Which is one of the reasons he ended up on the jetty. Total waste of time. That outboard was useless to him.

I'd have to agree that you can't expect anything out of an outboard in those conditions. That second video is really pretty interesting in that the boat seemed fine on it's own. The jib was out of control but the main had the boat gently moving along in an upright stance with little sign of distress ... except that it was pointed at the rocks. The guy at the helm seemed to simply let it sail itself into the rocks at a very nice controlled pace while he struggled with the engine. It's pretty obvious that he lost the ability to claw his way out upwind. Acceleration would have just put him on the rocks faster.
It appeared to me that if he made sure that the main was secured inboard, he could have jibed around to avoid the rocks and possibly kept the boat in control (maintaining control of the boom would be key). A jibe could have pivoted the boat around quickly enough. What we don't see is what is in the other direction. Somebody mentioned that the pier was in that vicinity (perhaps from where the video's were taken. There may not have been an opportunity to clear the pier in the other direction. But it did sail off the rocks pretty easily once it did turn around! Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

 

[Daveinet]

I see one HUGE easily avoidable mistake in the video. The guy on the lifeguard boat jumped from one boat to the other WITHOUT a LIFE JACKET. What in the world was he thinking? A wave moves the boats unpredictably, he gets knocked off and bangs his head and we have one dead lifeguard.

I yearly sail on a lake surrounded by large rocks. I've had to bail out twice. Both times I chose to not continue to fight the wind, but rather go with the wind and gain control off the boat. You never fight the wind, just go with it and try to maintain control. Then look for a good place to ditch.

 

[Skipper]

Most incidents are really only explainable by the captain.
However, since it was told that they were coming into the harbor, in 20 knots I'd have had that outboard down and running before ever reaching the entrance. Just in case. Appearances be damned. I'd rather be accused of dark-side sailing than having to play hopscotch on the breakwater.
I can't be certain, but the motor looked like a Honda 9.9 long shaft. This is a Power Thrust motor with more than enough capability to push a 26 footer around. I'd have gunned it and swung the bow to port. It even has respectable reverse, if employed late. The waves were not rocking the boat enough to render the outboard useless, prior to his approaching the rocks.
I had a Capri 26, 6,000 lbs, and the Honda 9.9 pushed it around with ease, even in a strong headwind, and delivered a good punch for getting up speed. Once under way, the stern squats and the motor digs in.
When he discovered that he couldn't tack to port, he could have put her in gear and saved the day. Or just have motored in to begin with.

 

[Will Gilmore]

If we are speculating on what we could have done to save ourselves in a similar situation. I have been in such being blown into a bridge before getting my sail up. 20 knots of wind. I threw out the anchor. Stayed off the bridge and set the jib. Sailed back to the boat launch.
Being quick on the anchor could have made a difference. But really, I think he could have jibed to starboard.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Daveinet]

One of the comments in the story was how neither rescue boat could get near enough to the sailboat to throw a line without taking a chance of ending up in trouble themselves. My question is, why are they using boats? They should be on PWCs. PWCs are proven to be much better at rescuing swimmers from the water, and much better in close quarters when pulling up next to a boat. Their small size and high power to weight ratio make them ideal for a rescue craft. I've been out in adverse conditions on a jetski, and then later on a speed boat. The jetski was much safer, and had much greater control in those adverse conditions.

 

[shemandr]

Agreed re PWC and I think that's a widely held opinion. So I'm guessing that there wasn't a PWC available to do the rescue.
Had that scenario occurred here the Fire Department would have to launch their rescue RIB. In other words, help yourself. We don't have rescue PWC or anyone trained to do rescue with them.

 

[jeepbluetj]

Yes, the video was taken from the Redondo pier - so bailing out to the south/southeast wasn't possible - the right way was southwest, pretty much what the boat ends up doing by itself.

The skipper of the boat posted to a different forum - they had just nosed out of the harbor and turned right back around. Outboard was not running at the time. They lost it in during that turn.

I'd have thought the better move would have been to keep going out, get some way on, and come back in. Maybe reef the main.. furl the jib, then come back. As I mentioned before, this is a pretty tough harbor to sail into. The best option would have been to leave it in the slip. On the same day this incident occured, I washed my boat. I wasn't going to take it out without skilled crew along.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Yes, the video was taken from the Redondo pier - so bailing out to the south/southeast wasn't possible - the right way was southwest, pretty much what the boat ends up doing by itself.

Looking at the satellite image, it seems like even if there wasn't room to bail out to the southeast, there should've been at least room for a jibe to get some steerage and speed back, then sail out in the direction he eventually ended up going.

 

[jeepbluetj]

Looking at the satellite image, it seems like even if there wasn't room to bail out to the southeast, there should've been at least room for a jibe to get some steerage and speed back, then sail out in the direction he eventually ended up going.
View attachment 145910

Truedat, but really the only bail out direction is to the southwest. The pier is quite close to the breakwater. Look at the size of the powerboat in that pic for reference.

As I mentioned before It's a tough harbor to sail into - you end up going from DDW/deep reach to pretty much closehauled to get in properly. Mess that up and you're on that breakwater where the boat in question was.

They really had only one mistake IMHO. Not enough sea room. Sure they had too much sail up, but that's manageable. Just sail further out and get reefed or something. Turning around immediately was a poor idea, cause they didn't get way on quickly enough. Same as that 242 that hit the pier there last year. Captain Ron was wrong - things don't happen "out there", things happen quickly and badly where the water meets hard stuff.

 

[RussC]

In flying it goes: "Airspeed, altitude, or brains. you need any two of these to stay alive."
I guess for sailing it would be: enough speed to have steerage, enough distance from solid objects to avoid them, and enough brains to know what to do with the other two I've been guilty of not following those simple rules myself at times.

 

[dziedzicmj]

a huge disadvantage is that you need to be making good headway to get any steering

Not really; you can turn the outboard and steer with it (almost like a stern thruster).
I am afraid that the main disadvantages are: cavitation (prop coming out of water in waves) and (usually) inadequate power for heavy conditions.

 

[DayDreamer41]

You know, I have read every posting in this thread and I know that I wasn't there, I was not the one in command of the ship, but I will say by my observance given the many statements identifying this location as a difficult harbor to approach especially in the given conditions, why would one attempt to sail at all? there is no shame in maintaining control of a sailboat using auxiliary power. We have to assume that the motor was functional as the person in command was attempting to implement the auxiliary power, but far to late in the game.

 

[Will Gilmore]

why would one attempt to sail at all? there is no shame in maintaining control of a sailboat using auxiliary power.

None at all. I'm with you on that.

I don't know what that harbor exit looks like, but wasn't he sailing out, from the direction of the hidden pier, when he decided to turn around? That would put him into the wind on the way out. Or, does the channel come from the left, giving him a good broad reach to sail out with until the jetty forced a tack into the wind. There may be a cross current at the end of the jetty he didn't count on that kept him from finishing the tack. I assume that was his first time sailing out of that channel under those conditions, if he changed his mind after getting out there. He may not have been aware of the eccentricities of that channel.

It seems, he kept a cool head and didn't bail and cause possibly worse injury.

There is no more important piece of safety equipment than a cool head.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Gunni]

Trying to drive out of that harbor between a rock and pier in those conditions with a putt-putt on the back of a daysailer would be a suicide mission. They really are designed to move you to from a slip in calm water. Counter the summer doldrums.

What I see and read here show that many people have distorted ideas about daysailers with kickers. There may be a familiarity and comfort in a small outboard on the back of a boat that is nominally more seaworthy than a run-about but it is a trap. The danger is you convince yourself to be motor-boat guy today, and avoid those intimidating sail controls. Once you start hobby-horsing your short waterline sailer on square chop that stern motor becomes a pendulum weight with little time in the water. Your tailbone is flying off the saddle.

The conditions that day were challenging and near small craft warning with big ground swell. To even consider going out in those conditions in that boat shows suspect judgment by THAT crew. Pilots refer to this as Intermediate Syndrome. He had enough skill to think up a way it would work and he could pull it off, but he didn't have enough skill to instinctively move to a viable Plan B and make it work when conditions exceeded his training. His Plan B was to go back to fiddling with a motor that was useless. No doubt that boat could have been safely sailed out of the harbor, but not by that crew.

Every year we lose a few on the bay this way. If only they had spent more time learning to sail and less on that little demon on their stern.

 

[Hayden Watson]

...
The conditions that day were challenging and near small craft warning with big ground swell. To even consider going out in those conditions in that boat shows suspect judgment by THAT crew. Pilots refer to this as Intermediate Syndrome. He had enough skill to think up a way it would work and he could pull it off, but he didn't have enough skill to instinctively move to a viable Plan B and make it work when conditions exceeded his training. His Plan B was to go back to fiddling with a motor that was useless. No doubt that boat could have been safely sailed out of the harbor, but not by that crew.

Every year we lose a few on the bay this way. If only they had spent more time learning to sail and less on that little demon on their stern.

Well said Gunni. It is a sailboat. Learn to sail the boat and sail it!

 

[CaptKimble]

Many years ago, I went sailing with a group of guys on a smaller daysailer with an outboard on the stern. Other than the captain I was the only one with ANY sailing experience at all. Sailing back into the harbor he started the outboard and we dropped the main (we never did put up the jib as it was pretty windy that day). As we all relaxed and motored past the lee side stone breakwater outside the harbor...the outboard sputtered to a stop. The captain yanked a few times on the outboard while we all attempted to hoist the main. The breakwater got closer and closer as the Captain left the outboard and moved forward to hoist the main with us ( we weren't doing so well ). Since there was plenty of folks trying to get us sailing I moved to the outboard (being a fairly mechanical guy) and started troubleshooting....fuel?...ohhhhh...the hose was trapped beneath the lazzerette cover instead of the cutout...I repositioned and yanked the starter cord just as he started yelling for everyone to stay with the boat....the motor started and I quickly put it in gear and moved us away from the breakwater with seconds to spare. A little side note: NOT ONE OF US HAD A PFD ON. We got back to the slip and all shared a welcome beverage and said a quick prayer to the man upstairs that guided me to quickly diagnose the problem. with a lee shore it can happen very quickly. This all happened in a matter of moments from the engine stopping until I got it started again. That said, I always give a lee shore / breakwater / pier...as much room as I can. The Redondo pier / harbor entrance is not only a wind problem but the current and waves add another dimension since they have a combined effect. I took my 30 in there once and when leaving I made sure to have plenty of sea room before hoisting the main and shutting down the iron jenny.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Not to be argumentative, but I must be missing something, the 22 ft daysailer I had with a putt-putt on the back would have done just fine in the conditions demonstrated in the first posts video and often did, with similar wave amplitude and a usually a much shorter wave length in the Great Lakes in many cases unless the winds are perfect one must rely on the putt-putt, the channels are very narrow and leave the channel and you are aground, then the waves will have their way with you for certain.