Repowering. Good or bad idea?
- Thread starter MKirk51
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Stu,
Thanks for the info. I am leery of the Volvo for the parts issue but I thought if the price was significantly cheaper it might be worth a go. It shouldn't be needing parts for some time. I'm curious about the clearances issues you mentioned with Beta. Are you talking about clearances within the engine? Prop shaft? Just being able to fit in the compartment?
I did receive a callback from one of the marinas I'm considering. He looked it over and didn't have any numbers yet but believes a shaft is the better option. A saildrive could be mounted in the existing hole but it would face backwards. Obviously not really do-able.
Thanks for the info. I am leery of the Volvo for the parts issue but I thought if the price was significantly cheaper it might be worth a go. It shouldn't be needing parts for some time. I'm curious about the clearances issues you mentioned with Beta. Are you talking about clearances within the engine? Prop shaft? Just being able to fit in the compartment?
I did receive a callback from one of the marinas I'm considering. He looked it over and didn't have any numbers yet but believes a shaft is the better option. A saildrive could be mounted in the existing hole but it would face backwards. Obviously not really do-able.
Consideration
If you decide to invest, you may want to consider getting the boat surveyed first. If the decks aren't sound and she doesn't survey well, you are definitely wasting your money.
Have you considered financing the repower? If you haven't and if you aren't already using your vacation home deduction it could work for you. I took a loan out to buy my boat and save about $700/year on a $18K/8.0%/12 year note. The tax savings covers half of the interest and the payments are only $200/month.
Also, you wouldn't be the first guy to bolt an outboard to the back of an O'day 28. There was one in Jersey with a 15 hp long shaft on it. It would no doubt move the boat fine.
http://www.saildrive280.com/gob.htm is worth a read. It is regarding repower of an O'day 28 with a Saildrive 280. The price is reasonable and may be a viable option for you. http://www.saildrive.us/ is the site for the latest model by that company. It uses a Parsun motor and is gasoline.
If you decide to invest, you may want to consider getting the boat surveyed first. If the decks aren't sound and she doesn't survey well, you are definitely wasting your money.
Have you considered financing the repower? If you haven't and if you aren't already using your vacation home deduction it could work for you. I took a loan out to buy my boat and save about $700/year on a $18K/8.0%/12 year note. The tax savings covers half of the interest and the payments are only $200/month.
Also, you wouldn't be the first guy to bolt an outboard to the back of an O'day 28. There was one in Jersey with a 15 hp long shaft on it. It would no doubt move the boat fine.
http://www.saildrive280.com/gob.htm is worth a read. It is regarding repower of an O'day 28 with a Saildrive 280. The price is reasonable and may be a viable option for you. http://www.saildrive.us/ is the site for the latest model by that company. It uses a Parsun motor and is gasoline.
Bob, that is a neat looking package.. The Parsun looks to be a great copy of a Yamaha engine, and it looks like the Swedish guys at Nykopings Marinkonvertering AB are doing the same thing that OMC did .. that is, taking an outboard powerhead and installing it onto a slightly modified drive foot.. since Mkirk’s boat is in fresh water, the package may work well for him.. I’d worry about corrosion in the lower leg and in the engine in salt water since there is no useful info on the alloys or the anodic protection system.. The thing still has the service drawbacks of changing the impeller but this one sits on top of the foot like the OMC and would probably fit.. Mkirk could expect much less fuel consumption and a much quieter installation with the 4 stroke power unit.. Looks to be a lot less expensive than a diesel, and for his use, looks like it would require a lot less modification for installation.. Might be interesting to talk to the BBB at Alameda CA to see what the reputation of Arne Jonsson is and to talk to Arne folks to get some references..
Matt,
Look at a picture of the Beta. It is a nice design and they tout great access to lots of the important parts. But only you know the configuration of your boat and engine area. The Beta seems to be a "stand up" version of a "regular" lay down engine: so if you have the (relative) height and access on the sides to get to the oil, dipstick, etc., then it could work for you. That's all I meant by that.
The referenced "newer" Saildrive unit from Alameda, CA, right where we keep our boat, has the same limitations as the original Saildrive idea. As the GOB article notes: "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The OMC was in very sad condition. The lower unit was corroded so badly you could push a toothpick right through the casting,.."[/FONT] So, you can spend $6,300 plus for a new unit and look forward to that happening down the line sometime. I just don't get it. Would you keep banging your head against the wall just because it feels better when you stop? If a traditional shaft gives way, you have a 1 1/4 inch hole in your boat. If a Saildrive seal goes, you have a two by two foot hole in your boat. Just sayin'... A new unit doesn't fix the severe shortcomings of the concept. Plus, it mixes Honda and Volvo parts. Isn't that Just Yummy!!!
if your housing is not swiss cheese in appearance,, as was mine, keep it and rebuild the engine--is a johnson 15, correct??--that is what mine was---i found ye cannot get as well built engine nor keep the balance i n the boat nor the performance if ye go to a situation of outboard on the back--if the housing is not swiss cheese and you are not taking on water----just rebuild your johnson or whatever they had placed in there--is a goood engine and reliable if you take good care of it.....gooood luck.....
Hmm.... I repowered my 83 Catalina 36, and my 73 Crown 28. Never regretted either one (in fact, I wish I'd repowered the Cat years before!). Yes, financially it's probably not a good idea. But a good, reliable diesel with give you much more joy of sailing than a wonky gas any day (and give you better fuel economy, which translates to more cruising between fills).
Converting a saildrive to a true inboard is not easy, but not as complex as it seems. Break it down to small jobs (cover the Big Hole, put in the shaft, make the thruhulls, make the stringers, mount the fuel tank...). You might want to mount an outboard on the back while you're doing the engine job - once you've pulled out the saildrive and patched the hole, you can run with an outboard while you're doing the rest of the job.
druid - "Druid Diesels"
Converting a saildrive to a true inboard is not easy, but not as complex as it seems. Break it down to small jobs (cover the Big Hole, put in the shaft, make the thruhulls, make the stringers, mount the fuel tank...). You might want to mount an outboard on the back while you're doing the engine job - once you've pulled out the saildrive and patched the hole, you can run with an outboard while you're doing the rest of the job.
druid - "Druid Diesels"
i would rebuild what you have instead of repowering. we had a summer nightmare from memorial day to labor day the year we re-powered. we put a brand new yanmar 2GM20F into a 1980 30 ft sailboat in 1997: we had numerous foulups with the 1st installer :including drilling thru the travelift strap when the boat was being lifted, rebedding the engine bearing plates so they weren't fair, having to pay for a whole new prop and propeller after the 1 st ones were mis-sized, having one incompetent mechanic starve the engine raw water cooling system of sufficient water by not upsizing the raw water thruhull to yanmar spec. on the 4th of july we gave up on the 1st mechanic , towed the boat and the 1/2 installed engine away from the 1st incompetent mechanic. went on a wait list for 3 months with the only other guy in town who actually knew how to install engines. an install should take about 1 week for a professional shop. ( need i mention that the 1st installer was the recommended 'yanmar factory service authorized dealer' ' in a major sailing town here on the great lakes ??
rebuilding what you have is a far better idea.
rebuilding what you have is a far better idea.
Repowering
Its the same old problem: Thats why there are lots of pearsons, Odays, C&Cs sitting in backyards. They all have old beat gas inboards in them and a replacement would cost more
than the boat is worth. I would not fool with a 20+ year old mongrel with an saildrive.
If you like the boat plan to keep it and everything else is ok with it, bite the bullet and go for the new diesel. You said 12K thats a low estimate for today. They are alway low. With a new bed and shaft probably be closer to 15K before you through Think of the enjoyment you will get out of the boat over the next 10 years Your other sensible option would probably be to get rid of the Oday and get something newer for more. What ever you decide good luck.
Its the same old problem: Thats why there are lots of pearsons, Odays, C&Cs sitting in backyards. They all have old beat gas inboards in them and a replacement would cost more
than the boat is worth. I would not fool with a 20+ year old mongrel with an saildrive.
If you like the boat plan to keep it and everything else is ok with it, bite the bullet and go for the new diesel. You said 12K thats a low estimate for today. They are alway low. With a new bed and shaft probably be closer to 15K before you through Think of the enjoyment you will get out of the boat over the next 10 years Your other sensible option would probably be to get rid of the Oday and get something newer for more. What ever you decide good luck.
BTW: you might want to look at this thread on BC Boatnet: http://www.bcboatnet.org/boattalk/index.php?topic=628.0
It's the long drawn-out story of replacing the Volvo diesel with a Yanmar in a Crown 28. I'm VERY happy with the results! (Still have to tweak the prop, though)
druid
It's the long drawn-out story of replacing the Volvo diesel with a Yanmar in a Crown 28. I'm VERY happy with the results! (Still have to tweak the prop, though)
druid
Any updates on your plan?
I hate to say it, but either run it as is or sell it and move up. The 28 is a nice boat, but after my Lancer 25 it just wasn't enough of an upgrade for me to consider. I wanted a boat that I would keep for a while and to me that meant something well constructed with standing head room (I'm 6 ft) and the 28 was deficient in the latter.
I also learned that it is far more economical to buy what you want than to convert an existing boat. Even if you have to sell a boat to get it. I wanted a wheel and found out that it was damned expensive to convert an existing boat. In fact, it wasn't economically sound to pay someone to do it. I think it was about $5000, vs half that if I did it myself.
I hate to say it, but either run it as is or sell it and move up. The 28 is a nice boat, but after my Lancer 25 it just wasn't enough of an upgrade for me to consider. I wanted a boat that I would keep for a while and to me that meant something well constructed with standing head room (I'm 6 ft) and the 28 was deficient in the latter.
I also learned that it is far more economical to buy what you want than to convert an existing boat. Even if you have to sell a boat to get it. I wanted a wheel and found out that it was damned expensive to convert an existing boat. In fact, it wasn't economically sound to pay someone to do it. I think it was about $5000, vs half that if I did it myself.
Here’s an update on my re-power. I did have a survey done, and he pretty much gave me the results I expected. My main concern was moisture readings. Hull and topsides 15%. Deck and deckhouse generally less than 10. Some elevated readings around port and starboard chainplates. Overall rating above average, with fair market value of 15.5K and replacement at 20.5K. So being a lightly-used freshwater boat, with good fiberglass and bottom paint, custom cover, and all new gear and sails, it’s not like I’d be putting money into a used-up beater.
After talking with both marinas and eliminating the sail drive option (being unable to use the existing hole makes that decision a no-brainer), it would be about 13 for the Beta. So let’s say I could sell for 12 and add in the 13. What could I get? Not that much more, really. Maybe a few feet longer but still close to the same age. A diesel of course, but an unknown diesel. Plus, it’d surely need work and money getting it comparable to what I have now. Like I said before, I probably shouldn’t have invested the time and money that I did over the last 5 years, but it was my first boat ever, and I wanted things right. Other than the engine, which has actually never failed me, I’ve been totally satisfied with the boat. However, lack of experience with different boats could be a whole other reason to sell.
So I’m gonna wait and think about it while the snow flies. I’d really like to do the Erie Canal to the ICW in two years (I’m 55), and leaving with a new engine would surely reduce the stress factor. A 28-footer might be small for two people for that length of time, but with over 10’ of beam it’s actually pretty roomy.
Druid. I did go over your info on your repower. Very interesting. Thanks. Basically my decision now is whether to sell or do the job myself. I don’t have the experience but I’m meticulous, and I’d have plenty of time as I’d do it the following winter in heated storage. But if I had 100% faith in a yard I’d most probably let the pros have at it.
Decisions, decisions. What’s a mother to do.
After talking with both marinas and eliminating the sail drive option (being unable to use the existing hole makes that decision a no-brainer), it would be about 13 for the Beta. So let’s say I could sell for 12 and add in the 13. What could I get? Not that much more, really. Maybe a few feet longer but still close to the same age. A diesel of course, but an unknown diesel. Plus, it’d surely need work and money getting it comparable to what I have now. Like I said before, I probably shouldn’t have invested the time and money that I did over the last 5 years, but it was my first boat ever, and I wanted things right. Other than the engine, which has actually never failed me, I’ve been totally satisfied with the boat. However, lack of experience with different boats could be a whole other reason to sell.
So I’m gonna wait and think about it while the snow flies. I’d really like to do the Erie Canal to the ICW in two years (I’m 55), and leaving with a new engine would surely reduce the stress factor. A 28-footer might be small for two people for that length of time, but with over 10’ of beam it’s actually pretty roomy.
Druid. I did go over your info on your repower. Very interesting. Thanks. Basically my decision now is whether to sell or do the job myself. I don’t have the experience but I’m meticulous, and I’d have plenty of time as I’d do it the following winter in heated storage. But if I had 100% faith in a yard I’d most probably let the pros have at it.
Decisions, decisions. What’s a mother to do.
Does 12-13K for the beta include the labor for the conversion? If it does and you are happy with the boat it is your money. You will no doubt be very happy when you are done and there will be more head room...but only because your wallet will be thinner LOL.
I doubt many of us will get more than what we paid for our boats when we bought them no matter how much we sink into them. From what I saw when shopping for mine, a 9.2A with a 1 cyl was ~15K, with a 2cyl ~20K and repowered with a 3 cyl ~25K. Freshwater boats added a premium of maybe 10-15%. Maybe repowering a 1 cyl with a 3 cyl would be cost effective. Likewise, replacing an A4 (very early 9.2A's had some) with a 3cyl would too.
I have a 2cyl. I bought my boat because I liked it and felt that it was worth restification. If I drop a new diesel in it some day, enjoy it for ten years then sell it and lose everything but my inital 20K purchase price so be it. I could have been smoking crack or doing heroin instead. Although I think sailing may be more addictive.
I doubt many of us will get more than what we paid for our boats when we bought them no matter how much we sink into them. From what I saw when shopping for mine, a 9.2A with a 1 cyl was ~15K, with a 2cyl ~20K and repowered with a 3 cyl ~25K. Freshwater boats added a premium of maybe 10-15%. Maybe repowering a 1 cyl with a 3 cyl would be cost effective. Likewise, replacing an A4 (very early 9.2A's had some) with a 3cyl would too.
I have a 2cyl. I bought my boat because I liked it and felt that it was worth restification. If I drop a new diesel in it some day, enjoy it for ten years then sell it and lose everything but my inital 20K purchase price so be it. I could have been smoking crack or doing heroin instead. Although I think sailing may be more addictive.
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