Repowering. Good or bad idea?

[MKirk51]

I’m tossing around the idea of repowering an 81 Oday 28. The OMC Saildrive still runs well but anyone familiar with it will know why I’m considering such a big step. Not to mention that I just don’t have enough confidence in it to get too far from home. I've considered going to an outboard, but not very seriously.
I’ve had the boat 5 years and replaced most everything, including sails and rigging. At this point I sometimes wonder if I didn’t do what the comic said and put a chandelier in a haunted house. Anyway, it’s always been in fresh water, stored 6 or 7 months a year under a custom cover, the deck is solid, the hull was stripped and barrier coated (and it showed no damage anywhere), and thanks to MaineSail’s advice, the topsides and deck look like new.
I feel confident that with a new engine it would bring top dollar but I wouldn't do it in order to sell (you never get back what you put in). In a couple years I see myself retiring with a larger cruiser somewhere warm for the winters and using the Oday up here for the summers.
Unfortunately I work full-time, I’m an hour away from the boat, and I’m not too sure I could handle that big a job anyway, so for the first time I’m looking at having someone else working on it. I’m waiting on quotes right now but I’m sure I’m looking at around 12 grand to go Yanmar. My first thought was staying with a saildrive, but since the existing hole can’t be used, there won’t be any real savings in labor so going with a shaft will probably be cheaper.
I know there’s an almost drop-in gas saildrive replacement out there. It used to use a Honda powerhead, then Yamaha and now it’s a Parsun (never heard of that one) but I’m thinking if I’m gonna go to the expense then I might as well spend some more and go diesel. Do it right is my philosophy. Then too, there's always a used diesel, but when the labor is so high, why take a chance with an unknown?
For those of you saying just sell and buy another, which was my first thought, I think the motor would force me to give it away regardless of the condition of the rest of the boat. So adding the cost of a repower to what the market might bring, I don’t really see me getting the same bang for the buck with another boat.
So bring it on, gents. Am I whacked? Can I trust a marina to do it right? Anyone been there and done that? Anyone wanna trade a good Yanmar for an OMC?

 

[tommays]

I would say going to a shaft would cost much more than staying with a saildrive as that is a lot of holes you don't have right now that are NOT easy to make

 

[kloudie1]

Yeah, I fiddle with engines and I’d think that a great path would be to take the whole thing out and take it to a good outboard mechanic, or do it yourself. The parts for the engine are most likely interchangeable with one of the OMC outboard engines of that time, probably the 15 hp .. I’d take the whole unit in so that they could go through and change seals and check bearings and gears, and ignition components and fuel system, and get it into good shape. Then you’d have an engine you could depend on.. Good Luck with it !! (my dink motor is a 1967, 6 hp OMC that I bought for $50..I put $120 in it in parts and now, it is a fine reliable engine!)

 

[higgs]

I would seriously consider rebuilding what you have.

 

[sailfree]

Find out if there's a local mechanic that KNOWS what typically goes bad on the saildrives, then get estimates to replace the suspect parts. It may be only a few seals that cause problems. Anyway, what would it cost to assure you it's dependable vs the cost of a new outboard? I know some sailors that find outboards are great for boats this size. The newer ones probably get a lot better mileage than the '81 saildrive.

It probably wouldn't be that big a deal if the engine did quit, unless you're planning on taking some long trips. Unlimited towing with Boat US is cheap, and you do have sails.

12k for a diesel repower! That would make a nice boat, but I think the resale hit would be painful.

I know you can get an equivalent boat with a diesel for 12k or maybe slightly more. The listings prices aren't what they're going for these days.

 

[higgs]

You do not want an outboard whatever you do. What makes you think that you have to do something about the present situation?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rebuild

oxymoron: good diesel mechanic

I've tested folks here to name one each year for the past few, nobody's taken me up on my offer.

Best diesel mechanic for MY boat: ME

Best mechanic for YOUR boat: YOU

 

[tommays]

The OMC issue is that in the past they made spares almost indefinitely, having been taken over by BRP( they do a lot of bean counting) they have dropped a lot of things like JOHNSON (which was really Suzuki with white paint)

There are also a bunch of special fuel system parts that are saildrive only as the outboard parts are NOT inboard rated

Ask anybody who owned a CAN-AM motorcycle ,one day they just bailed and left he owners holding the empty spare parts bag and just recently bought the brand back for NOW

 

[Scott T-Bird]

My opinion will be a bit different ...

It sounds like you want to keep your boat indefinitely. It sounds like you want a reliable diesel. You aren't going to take your money with you when your time for floating on the waters is over. I suggest you do what you want. I can't imagine anything complicated about installing a shaft drive; but you would have to talk with the right installer to get a comfort level there. Not being familiar with sail drives, I'm wondering why you can't get a new diesel sail drive to replace what you have.

I wouldn't put an outboard on a 28' boat under any circumstance. That's just my preference ... I would hate what it does to the lines of the boat and I wouldn't want an outboard if I had to contend with waves or chop. I can understand it on a 25 footer or less; but still ... are you on large body of water? Do you have a compelling reason for not getting what you want?

 

[Rob19574]

rebuild

To me I get the sense you may keep the boat for 2-5 more years. You will not get your 12 grand back as we all know when you go to sell. I would remove what you have and have a shop rebuild everything for you...it may even make for an interesting winter project if your handy enough. In any case - you should go with what you have and just get her rebuilt as is. Re powering or changing out the shaft complicate$ everything and if your not going to keep the boat for the next 10 yrs - its money down the drain.

Good luck - Rob

 

[tommays]

The Parsun thing is scary as there a Chinese motor with a really limited USA dealer network

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

Just to know what is available- check out the diesel saildrive units on http://www.betamarine.net/ They are super slick. They have a question and answer forum where they will discuss the procedure to put it in your boat. The units are based on Kubota engines. It is possible they might offer a unit that will bolt in. Good luck.

 

[kloudie1]

Yup.. Any new saildrive is going to be in the $10,000 + range.. almost as much as the boat value .. Bombardier is pretty good about spare parts for the OMC lines.. Rebuilding could go as much as $1500 depending on what is found.. (if you take the whole unit into the shop yourself).. Installation of lower unit seals, a water pump rebuild, carb clean-up, and a set of piston rings should be less. Note that it would be good to talk to some independent outboard shops with great reputations.. You may be able to find them by talking to people at "sportsman" stores .. A good OMC shop would be OK too, but ask around .. Key on saving dollars is to pull the unit and take it to them. Again, good luck with it!

 

[Warren Milberg]

I personally cannot see sinking $12k into a repower job for an '81 ODay. I think you could have your saildrive totally rebuilt/refurbished for very much less.

And for Stu: I can recommend diesel mechanic Craig Pringle, Macaulay BoatWorks, at Herrington Harbour North. I also agree that if you have a diesel, try to learn as much as you can about its care and feeding. In that regard, I also recommend Calder's "Marine Diesel Engines" on sale at Amazon used for less than the price of sandwich.

 

[tommays]

Having had lots of DIY friends do repowers on boats up to 40 years old like C&C 35 Mark I, i would disagree

When you have a boat setup that you like you repower OR throw the boat away ?

They are NOT making OMC shops anymore so your luck in this matter is very hit and miss as many have moved onto NEW lines of motors and don't necessarily have staff thats good on a 28 year old motor

This was very harsh on the Johnson OMC dealers as

Although we do not currently manufacture any Johnson branded engine product, we maintain the valuable
Johnson name while we continue to research future use of the brand.


This may be more true in saltwater areas as the freshwater units hold up much longer

 

[kenn]

I agree with most others that repowering that boat is probably not worth the expense.

To me the first requirement for a motor is reliability. It must always start, and be able to run all day without failing. In your shoes, I would beat on the engine for a weekend - go for a couple of 4 hour motor cruises, stop it and start it a few times at various states of warm-up, etc.

If the motor is reliable, then to me it would be worth giving it the best possible upkeep, including rebuilds as scheduled. I also like putting the best gas and oil into'em.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, Warren

A few years ago, one of our local Fleet curmudgeons suggested that we "publish" a list of "good" vendors here in the SF Bay area. So I did. No one ever added to it, and when I saw the guy a year later I asked him if he'd looked at it, and he said "No."

I continually recommend the five great folks I know around here, and will be glad to tell pk when he gets here!

It is nice to know there are good guys out there, and maybe Phil would be open to starting a new "section" on good mechanics and electricians based on area, but NOT for good BIG manufacturers or vendors, 'cuz we pretty much don't want to start another "Is Raymarine good or bad?" discussion.

Hey, Phil, waddya think?

 

[j_schoenfeld]

I repowered my 83 oday. It came with the 8411 universal diesel. I found a place back east that sent me the whole shootin match rebuilt with trans for 2500 bucks. I used the marina crane to pull the old one and put the new one back in the spring. It was a great project and I learned alot about my boat. I could have upgraded to the yanmar and gone through the whole reglassing the stringers and all that, but I am more interested in sailing than engineering. It lasted for 20 years, and if i take care of it I think this one will last beyond that. Good luck whatever you decide to do, but I would rebuild what ya got and then take care of it.

 

[MKirk51]

Thanks everyone. The consensus seems to be about what I thought. It does seem a bit of a waste to invest that much in an 81. My thought is that with the excellent condition of the overall framework, ie all the fiberglass and the interior components, and with most of the mechanical systems having been replaced, a new engine would get me close to a brand new boat for maybe a total investment of $25K, not counting all my labor over the past 5 years.
I do realize the sense it makes to rebuild what I have, but I'm loathe to put anything into it. Having to mix the gas & oil, the noise, the extremely bad milage, plus most of you probably don't realize that to change the impeller you have to pull the powerhead off of the drive unit. I'm not sure but I think you have to haul to do it, too. Plus there's a possibility that I may take a year and do the Erie Canal to NYC and south. Being old and raw-water cooled, I'm not sure this engine could handle the salt.
Lance, thanks for the tip on Beta. I was more inclined to go with the better known names (Yan and Vol), and I forgot that Beta offers their saildrive with a pre-made engine bed. That should cut down on labor some so I'll be talking with the marina about that model also.
Also, some of you mentioned that it might save on labor to stick with a saildrive vs shaft. The problem with that is the OMC sits right on top of the drive whereas the diesels sit in front of it. So the current hole (maybe 12" by 5") would have to be filled and another one cut a couple feet aft. With the extra labor and the cost of the drive unit, it may be cheaper to go shaft.
Thanks for all your interest and ideas. I should be getting some firm numbers this week. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Just coincidentally

I met a fellow on Thursday who is repowering his 1974 Pearson 10M A4 with an M25 he bought on eBay.

He plans to keep the boat for a loooooong time.

Heck, hermit just bought his boat and is already thinking of a second repower.

Go for it!

A Saildrive just is not worth the repetitive maintenance hassle. I can miss a few beats on maintenance on my stern tube and stuffing box, but ya can't miss a beat on the Saildrive's basic, inherent seals and metals of construction. Volvo, nice engines: hard to get parts - see Maine Sail's comments over the years. Betas have some very nice features if you can get the clearances right.

Look forward to hearing your updates. (Why not keep them on this thread instead of starting a brand new one?)

Good luck, and remember, the more involved YOU are with the installation the more successful it will be. Some mechanics will NOT let you "help" them. I would stay away form these guys - what are they trying to hide? It's your boat and your $$! You are the customer, remember that...

If you have an ammeter in the cockpit panel, now is the time to get rid of it.