Replacing the muffler

Status
Not open for further replies.
Brad Woodward

Brad Woodward

.
Nov 24, 2011
95
Catalina 30 San Diego
I just spent my wad on getting the bottom painted, new transducer installed, mast painted (86 and never done) replacing running rigging adding radar (admiral felt safer with it) and an auto pilot. So money is now tight. I have the M25 engine in it. Side note I took Stu's advice and stopped lugging it and it pushes me through the water at 6.5 -7 kts now at 2500 rpm. But I have been finding water in my bilge when I get back to the dock for a while now and, yes it took me a while to find, but discovered yesterday I had a cracked muffler on the intake side. My mechanic said I can repair it but it will break again in a few years. My question is do I spend the money to get a replacement from Catalina Direct or get a cheaper one from somewhere else. Two concerns here for me. If I get a different one what would be the added cost of repiping the exhaust ie would it be the same cost in the long run to get the CD one and not have to change anything. The other question is CD has a story on their site to scare you (me) into getting theirs. My mechanic said that one was probably not plumbed correctly to allow sea water to get into the engine when the boat heals. Need some input from those with experience. I can still use the boat for a while but we are planning a trip to Catalina later this summer (from San Diego) and it is usually 10 - 12 hour trip under power to get there so I want this fixed before we go.
 
M

mortyd

.
Dec 11, 2004
952
Catalina 30 easy living
you have no diea what catalina direct will sell you, call catalina yeachts first, then decide
 
jrowan

jrowan

.
Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
You can also buy muffler patches that will last for at least the rest of the season until you decide what to buy. Besides remember that you bought a SAIL boat. I would never want to take a trip knowing that I was going to motor for 10-12 hours. These Universal diesels were designed as AUXILLARIES that are supposed to get us in & out of a marina & tight channels where it wouldn't be prudent to sail. Motor less & sail more. You will be happier, better experienced & save $$ on fuel, etc. Unless you encounter a lot of fog or sail a lot at night a radar system is a waste of money. I would've put my budget towards engine & sail maintenance first, as $$ better spent. At least the radar & GPS will inform you of your position when the engine breaks down. Just kidding. LOL. I'm guilty of frivolous purchases as well.
 
R

rbmcintire

.
Mar 11, 2010
292
Catalina Tall Rig/ Fin Keel Deale, MD
Buy the exhaust flange and the gasket from CD (or from OEM Catalina in FL). Measure existing steel fittings and match up exact length S.S. pipe fittings from:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/stainles.html
Use heat-rated RTV to seal the thread joints. I think it's one close nipple, two 90's, one 45 and two straight nipples of some length? Originals were black pipe, B.M. steel. The stainless will last longer. DO NOT USE GALVANIZED. Catalina Direct's disclaimer is to protect them from some installations that might have a variance in the distance between the engine and the Airlift muffler. This is a 3-dimensional fit-up, just build the new one to match the old one. Pay attention to the offsetting angles when you're tightening things up and you're good. Also, automotive heat wrap is required. Keep an eye on the separation of exhaust pipe and wooden cabinetry. Probably time to replace the mixing tee and the hump hose as well...hey,you thought you were done spending money???

Rob
 
Brad Woodward

Brad Woodward

.
Nov 24, 2011
95
Catalina 30 San Diego
JR I agree on the radar. I have been sailing for 35 years off the Southern California coast and only used a compass most of that time. But as I said the Admiral felt safer with it and I need her to feel safe so she will enjoy the boat with me. We do get fog, and sometimes it just pops up out of the ocean and a sunny day. It can be hot on land but a fog bank a mile off shore. The prevailing wind here is from the NE which is pretty much the direction Catalina Island is from San Diego. I don't have the luxury of just taking 3 days off when the wind is right, and when it is it usually will last maybe a day or less before it changes. Heck it changes almost every day from AM to PM. I am an ocean sailor and it takes 45 minutes or longer, depending on tide and wind, to get from my slip to the entrance of Sand Diego harbor. If I sailed out, and a lot of people do, it would take me 2-3 hours. Then another couple of miles to clear the kelp beds if I want to head W or N. Usually put close to 2 hrs on the engine when I take it out. The whales and dolphins are out there and it is easier to avoid all the other kiackers, fishing dingies, cabin cursers going full throttle, destroyers, and aircraft carriers. I was escorted two weeks ago by a navy gun boat, with someone at the gun, past the Nimitz as I was caught between it and a very shallow area at Ballast Point. The carrier had the right of way even if I were under sail. San Diego harbor is a very busy port, and it seems quite a few boater have no clue as to the right of way rules or common courtsey.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
22,783
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Brad, klouie did a forensics on a C34 muffler. Pretty interesting stuff:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6728.0.html

Engines are made to be run.

The exhaust riser has a vented loop in the water inlet at the nipple. As long as you keep it clean and check it periodically, heeling is NOT an issue. Your mechanic is wrong.
 
Brad Woodward

Brad Woodward

.
Nov 24, 2011
95
Catalina 30 San Diego
rbmcintire said:
Buy the exhaust flange and the gasket from CD (or from OEM Catalina in FL). Measure existing steel fittings and match up exact length S.S. pipe fittings from:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/stainles.html
Use heat-rated RTV to seal the thread joints. I think it's one close nipple, two 90's, one 45 and two straight nipples of some length? Originals were black pipe, B.M. steel. The stainless will last longer. DO NOT USE GALVANIZED. Catalina Direct's disclaimer is to protect them from some installations that might have a variance in the distance between the engine and the Airlift muffler. This is a 3-dimensional fit-up, just build the new one to match the old one. Pay attention to the offsetting angles when you're tightening things up and you're good. Also, automotive heat wrap is required. Keep an eye on the separation of exhaust pipe and wooden cabinetry. Probably time to replace the mixing tee and the hump hose as well...hey,you thought you were done spending money???

Rob
Click to expand
Thanks Rob. If I replace the muffler with a different model I will keep that in mind. My problme is the fiberglass is cracked and I am getting some drips from under the input house. I have two very tight clamps on it and it still is dripping when the engine is running. I was hoping to hear from others on their success if they replaced the origional with something else and how they plumbed it so they didn't get water back into the engine like the article at CD was talking about. My concern was if I get a cheaper muffler would the cost of replumbing bring the cost back up to the cost of replacing it with the CD one which is an exact match to the old one, no replumbing. This one lasted 26 years. Not sure how many hours on it as I repalced the engine hours meter at 755 hours but don't know if it was the origional.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
22,783
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Brad, I think the link I provided to you answers your questions. You may also be able to get a replacement muffler from Catalina Yachts. Have you tried them yet?

Backsiphoning could occur if your vented loop is not working. That's why you need to check it.

Some of us have rebuilt that intake lip with MarineTex, and installed a new hump hose. You may want to try that first. But take off the inlet hose from the riser and see what's there first. All the rest is conjecture until you open it up and see what's there.

It seems counterproductive to buy a completely different muffler only to have to rebuild the exhaust riser, if indeed the riser is in good shape.

Take it a step at a time.
 
Brad Woodward

Brad Woodward

.
Nov 24, 2011
95
Catalina 30 San Diego
Stu Jackson said:
Brad, klouie did a forensics on a C34 muffler. Pretty interesting stuff:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6728.0.html

Engines are made to be run.

The exhaust riser has a vented loop in the water inlet at the nipple. As long as you keep it clean and check it periodically, heeling is NOT an issue. Your mechanic is wrong.
Click to expand
Thanks Stu some good info. I am sure my muffler is cracked due to vibration and will definitely incorporate the improvements in my new system. The way I read the article at the CD site was that the boat motored out, shut off the engine. When they went to restart it, it wouldn't turn over. It was found the engine was full of water. The engine was fixed and it happened again. The conclusion was, according to the article, the muffler was too small and when the boat heeled water ran into the engine from the muffler, soooo you should buy the CD muffler to avoed that problem. My mechanic said they probably didn't plumb the new muffler correctly as he hasn't had that probllem with other Catalina 30's he has done.
 
py26129

py26129

.
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
I would be surprised if the Catalina mufflers are brand specific. Defender (and I assume West marine has quite a selection of mufflers.

I would go out and buy the generic muffler closest to yoru current configuration and swap it in. While you are in there, I would suggest inspecting the old hoses and replacing them if there is any doubt about their condition.

That way, you can stop worrying aboutthe exhause system for a while.

Matt
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
22,783
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Actually, they are brand specific and made by Catalina for their boats. I would use OEM or CD rather than anything else. The non-OEM black Vetus replacement mufflers, for example, don't have, IIRC, drains. Not good if you end up cranking for more than 30 seconds and have no way to drain them.
 
py26129

py26129

.
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
Stu Jackson said:
Actually, they are brand specific and made by Catalina for their boats. I would use OEM or CD rather than anything else. The non-OEM black Vetus replacement mufflers, for example, don't have, IIRC, drains. Not good if you end up cranking for more than 30 seconds and have no way to drain them.
Click to expand
Stu

Thanks for correcting me on this point.

Matt
 
LuzSD

LuzSD

.
Feb 21, 2009
1,009
Catalina 30 San Diego/ Dana Point, Ca.
Brad, I don't know what year your 30 is but we have a 1988 and our muffler also was cracked when we bought it late in 2006....of course it took us a while to figure it out and then we did lots of patching and trial and error on how we might fix it. In the end we decided that we'd replace it, called Catalina Yachts and they made one specifically for us and sent it within a week. The part number was 10852 and it cost $290. That was in June of '07. One thing I would recommend is that you measure how long you need the pipe that comes up on the top... ours came too long and we needed to cut it off (no big deal) but if we'd spec'ed that out for them it would have been a little easier. It is a tight fit getting it in so it needs to be the right size.

Our experience was great with Catalina Yachts 818 884-7700 and I would absolutely use them again for anything specific like this. We have had no issues whatsoever since replacing it. Good luck to you.
 
jrowan

jrowan

.
Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
I do hear a lot that Catalina Yachts itself is a good place to get replacement parts.
My exhaust riser was replaced & hoses, but I guess I need to examine my muffler too.
 
M

mortyd

.
Dec 11, 2004
952
Catalina 30 easy living
luz, your experience with catalina yachts echoes mine. i'm always amazed how many contributors to this forum seem paralyzed to call catalina, like they owned a pearson or an
o'day.
 
Brad Woodward

Brad Woodward

.
Nov 24, 2011
95
Catalina 30 San Diego
LuzSD said:
Brad, I don't know what year your 30 is but we have a 1988 and our muffler also was cracked when we bought it late in 2006....of course it took us a while to figure it out and then we did lots of patching and trial and error on how we might fix it. In the end we decided that we'd replace it, called Catalina Yachts and they made one specifically for us and sent it within a week. The part number was 10852 and it cost $290. That was in June of '07. One thing I would recommend is that you measure how long you need the pipe that comes up on the top... ours came too long and we needed to cut it off (no big deal) but if we'd spec'ed that out for them it would have been a little easier. It is a tight fit getting it in so it needs to be the right size.

Our experience was great with Catalina Yachts 818 884-7700 and I would absolutely use them again for anything specific like this. We have had no issues whatsoever since replacing it. Good luck to you.
Click to expand
Thank you. That is what I am looking for. I have a call & e-mail in to Catalina Yachts but haven't heard back. Stu has a lof of good info too. I am hoping that CY will beat the $374 price of CD. I am leaning toward replacing rather than repairing it. It seems that while my boat 1986 has been very well taken care of by the previous owner, who owned it 20 years, he didn't replace much of the origional parts. I am getting it when the life of much of it is dying. The water pressure pump was the origional and even the replacement for it was obsolete. I had to get the third generation which is now obsolete too.
 
M

mortyd

.
Dec 11, 2004
952
Catalina 30 easy living
the only thing wrong with catalina is their reluctance to respond to calls and emails, so i suggest a call directly to frank butler or gerry douglass. this works like magic.
 
R

rbmcintire

.
Mar 11, 2010
292
Catalina Tall Rig/ Fin Keel Deale, MD
Ohhh, you mean the muffler! My bad. I was in the same cashflow predicament in 2010. I repaired ours by grinding out the hairline cracks with a Dremel and re-epoxying with West Systems G-Flex thickened with milled glass. I ordered a new petcock drain valve from CD (sorry morty). If you do order one of those valves, the new ones have larger threads and you have to drill and tap new threads into the muffler.

No leaks now. It is way stronger than it was and I have full confidence I can drain it, if necessary. My take was I had nothing to lose by trying and about $250 to use elsewhere. So far, so good.

Rob
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
22,783
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
mortyd said:
the only thing wrong with catalina is their reluctance to respond to calls and emails, so i suggest a call directly to frank butler or gerry douglass. this works like magic.
Click to expand
Call Ken (or Kent?) in Parts. He's very, very good. Robert Butler, son of Frank, also used to work there, don't know if he's still around, but he was really helpful to me.

If you have warranty or claims kinda issues, Frank and Gerry are the guys to go to. No need to bother them otherwise.

mortyd said:
luz, your experience with catalina yachts echoes mine. i'm always amazed how many contributors to this forum seem paralyzed to call catalina, like they owned a pearson or an
o'day.
Click to expand
Absolutely. I still don't get it. In addition to great owners Associations and their one-design websites, the COMPANY IS STILL IN BUSINESS. Gee, morty, ya think somebody'd get it by now, wouldn't ya? :naughty::naughty::naughty:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top Bottom