Replacing ALL of the plumbing

john6206

john6206

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Feb 19, 2008
464
Catalina 320 Tawas Bay Yacht Club
So… 30 year old boat, 30 year old PEX, I’m chasing leaks.

The 15mm PEX is not readily available in US. So far I’ve been ordering one fitting at a time from Defender Marine (the only place I can find it), and waiting a week for deliver.

When I do a simple plumbing project at home, it usually involves 4 or 5 trips to ACE hardware, but each trip doesn’t take a week.

Has anyone here ripped out ALL the PEX and replaced it with 1/2“?

Advantages would be: it would all be new (so hopefully no leaks) and If I had a problem any local hardware store would have parts.

Disadvantages would be: It seems complicated, and I don’t know what I don’t know.

The obvious strategy would be to replace it run by run, because someone else already figured out the diagram. If I ripped it all out at the beginning there would be a lot more head scratching time involved.

Has anyone done this?
Would you recommend?
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,353
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
john6206 said:
The obvious strategy would be to replace it run by run, because someone else already figured out the diagram.
Click to expand
At least you know it was installed by Cat and it's not a DIY job. It should be a reasonably good layout.

john6206 said:
If I ripped it all out at the beginning there would be a lot more head scratching time involved.
Click to expand
Exactly. Use the original layout to make exact detailed drawings (section by section) of every piece and part. Maybe also photo the entire DHW and DCW systems and assemble the pictures in an order which YOU can understand.

My point here is that you want to get a complete materials list in both fittings and tubing length (in full, cheaper coils) in order to reduce your wait time between building sections. Plan to spend many, many hours planning out the entire job, piece by piece by piece before you even touch a tool.

Once you have all the pieces and parts in hand, THEN figure out how to replace each individual section (no matter how small) so that you can turn the water back on again until you have the time to attack the next section in the same fashion.

One other advantage of this method is that you can ofter use the old tubing in place, as a fish to pull the new tubing into place.
 
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D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,223
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Last year I replaced all the tubing with PEX, using off the shelf PEX and fittings. No fancy marine stuff.

Do your research. There are different types of PEX with different characteristics. Be sure to match the fittings to the PEX.

My primary source was SupplyHouse.com, good prices, good selection, good service, good return policy. Occasionally I used Lowe's when I came up short on something.
 
sailcapt340

sailcapt340

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Sep 26, 2008
735
Hunter 340 0 Wickford, RI
I replaced all our fresh water, Hunter original piping lines a few years back with 15mm. Using all push fittings.
Follow Ralphs description above for guidance. Getting the piping in Coils is best. I used FreshWater Systems Supply for my source, John Guest fittings. Good pricing and quick delivery as well. But did need to get a couple of Whale push connections locally as you always find a need you didn’t plan for. Even with the best layout and planning.

One tip I can offer is get a roll of Red Electric Tape as well. Wrap a few spots of your new Hot Water Lines with the the red tape.
In my case, after the job is done, it can get a bit confusing in the water heater and pump area. With the array of piping going everywhere.
The red tape clearly marks the hot water lines which make it easier when bypassing the water heater when you decide to winterize the system. Saves you from leaning in and tracing lines. Just a thought.
 
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Apex

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,217
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
add in drainage points for winterization: bypass loop for hotwater tank and drain for tank, cold water low point drain and finally a short service loop at pump/accumulator.
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,223
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
sailcapt340 said:
Wrap a few spots of your new Hot Water Lines with the the red tape.
In my case, after the job is done, it can get a bit confusing in the water heater and pump area
Click to expand
Better yet, color code the PEX, Red for hot water, Blue for cold, and white for supply from the water tanks to manifold or pump. Also, use standard ½" supply lines to connect the pumps and fittings to the PEX, these are the same ones that connect the faucets in your home to the plumbing. Easy to install and easy to disconnect for winterizing or maintenance. No wrestling with hose clamps and hoses.
 
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Terry Cox

Terry Cox

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Dec 25, 2000
5,948
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Hi John. Hunter used 1/2 inch Zurn (Quest) Pex Quicktite brand polybutylene grey plastic hose for the fresh water system on our 1991 P42. It has worked well for us over the years and was trouble free. It is also very reliable when installed correctly. It is my understanding that Hunter uses a different product on newer model boats.

We've had one leak since purchasing the boat in 2002, which was caused by an improperly assembled fitting, either by the PO or more likely at the factory considering the location. That was over ten years ago. Your boat, your choice, but no plans to replace our system. It would help to know what your fittings look like, their components and an understanding why you have so many leaks, most likely happening at fittings.

The attached link describes the leak we had, the location, cause and outcome. Much less effort than replacing the entire system. Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades
 
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dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,223
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
john6206 said:
@dlochner
That‘s what I was thinking.
I didn’t know they made white, but blue for cold, red for hot.
Click to expand
There may be applications where non-potable water is used. Or in our case, I wanted to clearly show which tube connected to the water tank. A blue hose for the tank could easily be confused with a pressurized hose to a faucet.
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,223
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
One more thought. The quick connect "toolless" connectors are really expensive. We went with plastic fittings (mostly) and SS crimps. It is necessary to buy the crimping tool, however that cost is easily offset when you consider the tool less fittings are several dollars each and the plastic fittings or several dimes each.
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,353
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
dlochner said:
The quick connect "toolless" connectors are really expensive.
Click to expand
At the risk of running afoul of Mr. Lochner, seeing as you are still in the learning phase of tubing installation, you don't want to use permanent pex bands. One mistake in there and you could find yourself tearing out a large section of your new installation. And it only gets worse from there. Use only press fittings regardless of cost. One or two initial mistakes and you'll really see your costs go through the roof.

Terry Cox said:
Hunter used 1/2 inch Zurn (Quest) Pex Quicktite brand polybutylene grey plastic hose for the fresh water system on our 1991 P42.
Click to expand
Hunter installed Zurn Qest fittings for the fittings of my water system in my 1999 H-310, however the tubing was all pex. The Qest fittings are the epitome of design but I see they also have a Zurn price tag ($$$$$$$). They are the ultimate to work with for ease of installation. I did some early renos on my water system and found that using press fittings allowed me to use most of the original tubing again. If the original install had been Pex bands it would have meant scrapping much of the original tubing.

1760289539632.jpeg

Zurn push fitting

​
@john6206 , please send us a few pics of the fittings used on your boat's water tubing.
 
C

colemj

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Jul 13, 2004
736
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
dlochner said:
One more thought. The quick connect "toolless" connectors are really expensive.
Click to expand
Not really. I get 15mm quick connectors at Freshwatersystems - $2.50 for straight and 90*, $3.50 for Tee's. Hard to find anything else that cheap.

Mark
 
C

colemj

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Jul 13, 2004
736
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
Ralph Johnstone said:
The Qest fittings are the epitome of design but I see they also have a Zurn price tag ($$$$$$$). They are the ultimate to work with for ease of installation.
Click to expand
IMO, push-on fittings are about as easy as it gets. Our previous boat was all Qest, and while they are a nice design, they are nowhere near as easy as "push the pipe in the fitting and walk away".

Mark
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
13,223
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,353
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
dlochner said:
Crimp poly fittings run about $0.60- 0.80 each for straight connectors and tees. A bag of 100 SS crimp rings runs about $27. That works out to a little over a dollar for a straight connector.
Click to expand
I am afraid I have to say that even if they were free, they're still a really bad choice for a begining installer.
 
C

colemj

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Jul 13, 2004
736
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
dlochner said:
Crimp poly fittings run about $0.60- 0.80 each for straight connectors and tees. A bag of 100 SS crimp rings runs about $27. That works out to a little over a dollar for a straight connector.

Click to expand
Don't forget the $100 crimp tool they need. That's another $1 for every 100 fittings. $0.75 connector, $0.54 crimp rings, $1 tool - the same price as a push-on connector. And that is averaged for 100 connections. If you have fewer than 100, the push-ons are cheaper.

I agree with the above that crimp fittings are not for beginners. I'd go so far as to say they are not for experienced people on boats either, based on the number of times I've needed to change a plumbing route after making connections, deciding in the future to make changes, adding branches to a circuit, etc. Then there are the many plumbed areas of our boat where getting a crimp tool into them at all is impossible, let alone getting the correct angle for a solid crimp.

Push-on connectors make all of that effortless without cutting off fittings or potentially having to toss the old fitting because of damage. If you can fit your hand in an area, you can install a push-on connector.

Mark
 
C

colemj

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Jul 13, 2004
736
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
Not to put too fine of a point on it, but I just had to redo the plumbing today around our watermaker due to getting a new boost pump that required more changes to the plumbing than expected. With the push-on fittings, this was a breeze to undo the old plumbing, reroute and change what was needed, and reuse the old fittings with some new ones. The new system required a couple rounds of prototyping under pressure to get it most efficient and workable, which was no problem with push-on fittings.

Crimped fittings would have made this a much more difficult job, likely require all a lot of new fittings where the old ones were no longer usable, and wouldn't have allowed rounds of prototyping under pressure.

Mark
 
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