Replacements for flare kits.

[centerline]

When you consider the electronic LED flares can work for hours compared to seconds the advantage is obvious. It would be nice the see the USCG certify one of the red LED ones for use instead of the old flares.

have you followed this thread?.... this is at least the third time this has been posted here. it is a USCG approved LED device.
its not really a flare, and I dont see any way they can shoot sparks out of a long lasting and properly working LED device, or how they could ever make an LED as "eye catching" as a pyro flare, but until they do, what is shown in the link is the only option so far....

 

[centerline]

It's a bit confusing, but I think SOLAS is a rating, not a manufacturer. Orion manufactures SOLAS-rated flares. I think Landfall is just a retailer, not a manufacturer (not so?); so who's SOLAS flares are they selling?

you are correct....its definitely NOT a company, but is more of a treaty that was agreed on, which in some ways could be considered a rating if it meets the criteria set forth in the agreement....

SOLAS is the acronym for Safety Of Life At Sea, as it was written in the provisions made during a series of international conventions governing maritime safety in the early '60's...

 

[Kings Gambit]

its definitely NOT a company, but is more of a treaty that was agreed on, which in some ways could be considered a rating....

SOLAS is the acronym for Safety Of Life At Sea, as it was written in the provisions made during a series of international conventions governing maritime safety in the early '60's...

Yes, I know. However, a comparison earlier was being made between SOLAS flares and Orion flares; but one refers to a rating, a type of flare, and the other to a manufacturer of flares (Orion) which also makes SOLAS-rated flares.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Has anyone here ever had to actually use a pyrotechnical visual distress signal? Hopefully, not. But if you did, can you describe what was used, how it was used, and what the result was? In over 40 years of boat ownership and sailing, I have never come close to needing to do this....hope it stays that way.

Yeah, likewise, in nearly 30 yr of boating, I've never even seen a pyrotechnik distress signal at all. However, I have heard many calls for assistance on the VHF radio. I've also never heard that I can remember the USCG advising a boat "in trouble" to set off a flare or orange-smoke distress signal even when a rescue boat is in route and has to find the distressed boat. These devices appear to be almost never used and definitely are subordinated to the VHF (or cell-phone) and/or AIS. I wonder how any "normal" recreational boater could even find another vessel at night that did set off a parachute flare visible to 30 n. mi.

 

[Newport Bob]

OK Since I am the one that 1st posted a link to the Sirius LED SOS distress light as an alternative to flares - here is my rational for switching to this.
Before GPS or even Loran, but starting after VHF, emergency requests could only include position info based on dead reckoning. When surface or air assist got in the VERY general area a flare was required to show them where you were, usually after radio contact.
Out of VHF range, hf radio did the same.
Or firing flares were a Hail Mary, hoping some other vessel was close enough on the vast ocean to see it - even if we were not visible- night or over the horizon.
Today we can broadcast accurate position by many methods when we need assistance. We need a way to say here we are when assistance comes over the horizon, especially when we have now lost other means of communicating (in raft or water or flooded to loss of battery = no other communication).
So, do you want to hold a flare that lasts minutes or a SOS light that is;
-The groundbreaking optical design provides an omni-directional light display for surface rescue craft and a vertical beam visible to aircraft flying overhead
-Visible for over 10 nautical miles, the SOS C-1001's beam lasts for hours compared to the minutes-long lifespan of traditional pyrotechnic distress
I'll give you that if the situation is you lost all elec com means before a distress broadcast a flare might show over the horizon, but for only minutes- how many will you have to fire and at what intervals will you choose

 

[Kings Gambit]

OK Since I am the one that 1st posted a link to the Sirius LED SOS distress light as an alternative to flares - here is my rational for switching to this.
Before GPS or even Loran, but starting after VHF, emergency requests could only include position info based on dead reckoning. When surface or air assist got in the VERY general area a flare was required to show them where you were, usually after radio contact.
Out of VHF range, hf radio did the same.
Or firing flares were a Hail Mary, hoping some other vessel was close enough on the vast ocean to see it - even if we were not visible- night or over the horizon.
Today we can broadcast accurate position by many methods when we need assistance. We need a way to say here we are when assistance comes over the horizon, especially when we have now lost other means of communicating (in raft or water or flooded to loss of battery = no other communication).
So, do you want to hold a flare that lasts minutes or a SOS light that is;
-The groundbreaking optical design provides an omni-directional light display for surface rescue craft and a vertical beam visible to aircraft flying overhead
-Visible for over 10 nautical miles, the SOS C-1001's beam lasts for hours compared to the minutes-long lifespan of traditional pyrotechnic distress
I'll give you that if the situation is you lost all elec com means before a distress broadcast a flare might show over the horizon, but for only minutes- how many will you have to fire and at what intervals will you choose

Well, you start w/ the 3 to 5 units required aboard and hopefully get them launched prior to the boat sinking. In the raft with another set (I suppose these could be your expired ones.), and setting toward shore, wait until within a few miles of shore and fire away when YOU see something worth attracting attention from.

 

[Charles Erwin]

Inland/coastal -- so 3 year periods per pack of hand held flares. Thus $30 X 3 periods or $90 per every 12 years? So if the flashlight version aims to last 12 years do we know it does?

Charles

 

[JohnShannon]

I suspect flares are less relevant than times past due to the ability to broadcast accurate position in multiple ways.

But, PLB EPRIB hits the satellite I think every half hour. So if you are in an area with significant current like say the Gulf Stream you could be miles from your last reported by the time the coasties get out there. The EPRIBs are fitted with a 121 MHZ homing beacon for just such a case. But then the question becomes which is easier for them to home on? A radio gizmo or a freaking flare? I am guessing flare.

VHF with DSC, gotta read the manual but I think that one broadcasts position much more often. So in that case flare/noflare probably doesn't matter. Also VHF broadcasts to everybody so help may be forthcoming from that drunken lout of a powerboater. Speaking of that, flares indicate you have a problem to everybody in the vicinity, not just the authorities so could result in faster response.

 

[njlarry]

Flares only indicate that there may be a problem or someone is just goofing around. They do not indicate the nature of the problem and are not used for non life threatening mechanical problems or stand by alerts. Besides the time and attention needed use them, their other major drawback is there is small chance of their ever being seen at all given the short burn times unless someone is looking at the exact spot at the exact moment and then how would you know?
Except for ocean crossing flares are as obsolete as signal flags. Never saw a flare used but have heard lots of vhf calls. Why are they still required at all? Dsc is too helpfull and cheap not to have on board. The CG put alot into the dsc system, I think it would be great if they exempted dsc vessels from replacing flares. Maybe more vessels would get a hand held dsc with a spare battery.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Visual, line-of-sight, response would be the fastest type of response to a distressed boater from another boater nearby--say, within two to three miles or so. In that special situation, a smoke--possibly flare-- launch, would be preferred over, or perhaps prior to, a VHF call--DSC/GPS or otherwise. I can see more viable use of flare and/or smoke signals from a distressed boater in his dinghy w/ dead VHF batteries (uh, "forgot to charge"), or lacking a VHF at all. Also, I see best use w/ MOB. Nowadays people sometimes have a strobe, all-round white light, or pole attached to a ring buoy--the last being for day sighting. I've never seen one of those MOB poles deployed for rescue either, but I've tossed them over myself for practice. In a fresh breeze they can lay over pretty far. From checking around due to this thread I've discovered these combination light/smoke MOB canisters from PainsWessex [SOLAS-approved]. Daytime orange smoke, nighttime an LED light; both self-activating. The MK-9 smoke canister & a signal flare would be the ticket for a dinghy that had lost is engine power down wind of the mother ship in a strong breeze, or for an emergency medical situation in the dink. Other boats nearby in the anchorage could respond. (That is, those that normally have their VHF radios OFF when at anchor!!!) If the signalling devices are "kept" in/with the dinghy you would not need to adhere to expiration dates for replacement as long as the yacht had its own separate required signals.

 

[Jackdaw]

Flares only indicate that there may be a problem or someone is just goofing around. They do not indicate the nature of the problem and are not used for non life threatening mechanical problems or stand by alerts. Besides the time and attention needed use them, their other major drawback is there is small chance of their ever being seen at all given the short burn times unless someone is looking at the exact spot at the exact moment and then how would you know?
Except for ocean crossing flares are as obsolete as signal flags. Never saw a flare used but have heard lots of vhf calls. Why are they still required at all? Dsc is too helpfull and cheap not to have on board. The CG put alot into the dsc system, I think it would be great if they exempted dsc vessels from replacing flares. Maybe more vessels would get a hand held dsc with a spare battery.

Would it really be your intent to rely on an electrical piece of gear to be your ONLY way of signalling distress????

 

[Jackdaw]

Also, I see best use w/ MOB. Nowadays people sometimes have a strobe, all-round white light, or pole attached to a ring buoy--the last being for day sighting. I've never seen one of those MOB poles deployed for rescue either, but I've tossed them over myself for practice. In a fresh breeze they can lay over pretty far. From checking around due to this thread, I've discovered these combination light/smoke MOB canisters from PainsWessex. Daytime orange smoke, nighttime an LED light; both self-activating.

To comply with our OSRs we use the inflatable SOS Danbuoy for MOB situations. You just throw the whole deal at the MOB, and it inflates into a 2 meter pole with a light a flag. Has an attached whistle. We've down MOB drills going downwind and it very sobering with a spin up how far away you can get away from someone in the water before you can turn.

It also has straps so the MOB can use the device as buoyancy to stay afloat. Looks like this on the boat, at what we call 'safety corner'.

 

[skygazer]

Just thought I'd mention that I also (with trepidation) shot off some expired handheld pull string type aerial flares, forget what brand, and out of three, two did nothing at all and one quietly popped and shot something - not a flare - a short way up and it fell right back down. I fully expected them all to work!

I have some more gun type but they expired after July 4th so I have not shot them. Doubt anyone would notice if I did.

I think I like the electronic idea that doesn't expire or pollute, and with it carry some good quality flares even if expired. I imagine good ones would work for awhile. Perhaps buy one every year or so. I have my doubts the cheap ones work (expect high failure rate) even when new.

 

[Kings Gambit]

We've down MOB drills going downwind and it very sobering with a spin up how far away you can get away from someone in the water before you can turn.

Yeah, gotta figure at just 8 kt you're scooting at about 808 ft/min. If it takes even only 3 min to drop the chute and turn around [probably slow for a crack-team] you're already over 2,000 ft from the MOB; half a nautical mile is only about 3,000 ft. So, after less than another min the MOB could be more than a half a nautical mile to weather in likely 15 kt & possibly 2-3 ft wind chop. If off CA and this happened in the late afternoon when the westerly/southwesterly sea breeze is up, you may be looking toward the sun and into glare as well . I wonder how effective the DanBuoy pak would be in that case? At 2 m pole, could probably still see it if more vertical than less [i.e., > 45 deg to horizontal]. However, if looking into glare a red streamer would be easier to see, IMHO.

 

[msmalter]

I purchased one of the Sirius LED Flares. They are approved by the USCG (but not Canada). It is very bright, and the LED flashes on and off with an SOS signal (_ _ _ ... _ _ _). In the dark it is very easy to see it is a distress signal. I think it is far superior to the hand held flares, which can cause a fire and burn out quickly. I think I will keep my expired 12 gauge flares on board and maybe refresh them every 5 or 6 years. I had some 12 year old 12 gauges that I wanted to dispose of, so I soaked them in water for 2 weeks. They still fired. I also have an expired orange smoke canister. I do think that is the way to go in daylight, although I've never personally lit one.

 

[Jackdaw]

Yeah, gotta figure at just 8 kt you're scooting at about 808 ft/min. If it takes even only 3 min to drop the chute and turn around [probably slow for a crack-team] you're already over 2,000 ft from the MOB; half a nautical mile is only about 3,000 ft. So, after less than another min the MOB could be more than a half a nautical mile to weather in likely 15 kt & possibly 2-3 ft wind chop. If off CA and this happened in the late afternoon when the westerly/southwesterly sea breeze is up, you may be looking toward the sun and into glare as well . I wonder how effective the DanBuoy pak would be in that case? At 2 m pole, could probably still see it if more vertical than less [i.e., > 45 deg to horizontal]. However, if looking into glare a red streamer would be easier to see, IMHO.

For a racing boat with spin up, best practice now is to absolutely minimize separation by quick stopping. We blow the guy and turn head to wind with the kite up. The kite presses into the rig, mostly to one side. Its work to pull it down but manageable.

I keep a small DSC-VHF clipped to my deckvest when things get sporty.

 

[cygnussailor]

In almost every case pyro devices go bad because of moisture absorption. A trick I use to make flares etc. last much longer is to put them into a quality ziplock bag then evacuate the excess air. I then put another baggie over the first one. I've participated in flare demonstration activities using 20 year old flares, 12ga, 25mm shells, and never had one fail.

 

[Kings Gambit]

In the dark it is very easy to see it is a distress signal. I think it is far superior to the hand held flares, which can cause a fire and burn out quickly.

So, when tootling around in the dink after dark at a remote location (e.g., Landing Cove, SBI or Coches Prietos, SCZI), good idea to have a Sirus LED flare aboard for night, and smoke canister by day, in case you find yourself being blown to sea in an inflatable dinghy that, regrettably, you have to row with another person aboard b/c your outboard quit and would not restart!! Of course, if the VHF/DSC is powered up, you might raise the CG to come fetch you back to your yacht at anchor at taxpayer expense. "Have a good evening, sir!"

 

[Kings Gambit]

In almost every case pyro devices go bad because of moisture absorption. A trick I use to make flares etc. last much longer is to put them into a quality ziplock bag then evacuate the excess air. I then put another baggie over the first one. I've participated in flare demonstration activities using 20 year old flares, 12ga, 25mm shells, and never had one fail.

Seal them tight in a bag under pure nitrogen; that outta do it.

 

[Kings Gambit]

For a racing boat with spin up, best practice now is to absolutely minimize separation by quick stopping. We blow the guy and turn head to wind with the kite up. The kite presses into the rig, mostly to one side. Its work to pull it down but manageable.

Sounds scary; but at least the chute should be blowing back over the boat and not dragging in water, etc., especially if the boat tacks, and the mainsail would be stalled or driving the boat some to weather. Sort of an emergency windward take down? That takes practice!! No doubt engine is on by this time as well.