Replacements for flare kits.

May 2, 2012
276
Catalina 310 Toronto, Ontario
I think was it is missing here is TIME. The flares are really short on time. Your literally talking seconds here.
The LED seems to have it covered hands down. Also the flag which may seem a little lame, also stay constant where again flares lack big time.


Cheers
2 Old Pirates
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Sounds scary; but at least the chute should be blowing back over the boat and not dragging in water, etc., especially if the boat tacks, and the mainsail would be stalled or driving the boat some to weather. Sort of an emergency windward take down? That takes practice!! No doubt engine is on by this time as well.
Yea it works pretty OK. For sure tack and not jibe. Its a bit daunting practicing this; every bone in your body tells you NOT to do it! Kites for the 367 are upwards of $4000, so the screw-up potential is high. Happily we have a practice spin (we call franken-kite) that we use for hi-jinx like this.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
most chart plotters have a MOB button that you can push to mark the spot where your guy fell out. I even have a Raymarine Lifetag (no longer sold) that pushes the MOB button for you. Still have issues with drift. The new hot ticket is AIS SART this doodad attaches (ahead of time) to your victim and sends GPS and a MOB code to all AIS receivers in the vicinity. So drift is accounted for, and more folks theoretically know there is a problem.

The reality seems to be that most AIS receivers plunk the victim on the screen as just another target, as opposed to sounding a buzzer, shouting holy s#$$% and putting a blinking red tombstone on the screen, making it obvious that there is an issue. Hopefully as software gets updated that will improve
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
most chart plotters have a MOB button that you can push to mark the spot where your guy fell out. I even have a Raymarine Lifetag (no longer sold) that pushes the MOB button for you. Still have issues with drift. The new hot ticket is AIS SART this doodad attaches (ahead of time) to your victim and sends GPS and a MOB code to all AIS receivers in the vicinity. So drift is accounted for, and more folks theoretically know there is a problem.

The reality seems to be that most AIS receivers plunk the victim on the screen as just another target, as opposed to sounding a buzzer, shouting holy s#$$% and putting a blinking red tombstone on the screen, making it obvious that there is an issue. Hopefully as software gets updated that will improve
Of course, if you hit the MOB button you can [should be able to] return to the spot where your guy hit the water w/o having to see him from afar. So, how vertical a flag pole stands in a breeze might not be relevant if you're only a few tens of feet away from the victim upon return to vicinity. However, my initial point was that if you can see him, you'll get there faster and get him back on board faster, etc., than if you must follow a GPS track on a chart plotter. My "plotter", frankly, is usually below near the radar monitor.
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
You can save a bunch by buying your ORD locally. The shipping costs for this stuff are high, so let the store pay to bring in a bulk and split the costs. And yeah, forget the USCG certed, SOLAS is the stuff. I keep a bandolier of the 25 mm pistol flares, a smoke, and one of those pricey parachute flares.
 
Jul 26, 2015
42
Watkins 29 Ft. Lauderdale
Tell me about it...I own a 17' Boston Whaler that we use to cruise the ICW and canals of Ft. Lauderdale.... Because of the size, I too must maintain current flares.... the boat is too small to venture off shore... and is really only safe in the canals and the ICW... what a kick in the head to renew my expired flares...
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,343
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
KISS. I buy one or two handheld smoke flares, on sail at WM. Maybe $30-$50 a year.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The new hot ticket is AIS SART this doodad attaches (ahead of time) to your victim and sends GPS and a MOB code to all AIS receivers in the vicinity. So drift is accounted for, and more folks theoretically know there is a problem.
Indeed, Spinlock now sells the deckvest with an integrated rescureME MOB1 module, or as a retrofit. I'm thinking about that. It sure is small. For now I'll just use the smallest AIS-DSC-GPS handheld I can find, attached to the deckvest. Spinlock now makes a pouch than holds this kind of kit; maybe that's the ticket.

 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Personally, I'd like to see a movement away from pyrotechnics all together = Less Fire Hazard and Less Cost over Time. Strobe lights are visible at great distance, I don't however have any real world data to compare the distance visibility vs flares. For anything 'handheld' its a no brainer, but you need to have a solution for replacing the launched or parachute flares that need to attract attention by the vertical height and flight time granted by a pyrotechnic. You could easily come up with a launchable strobe light with a parachute, say using a sling shot or compressed air, but retrieving it for re-launch is unrealistic. You'd need many of them which would become cost prohibitive, but at the very least you'd only be inspecting/replacing batteries every year rather than buying new flares that may never be used.
Somebody has probably already thought of this... or I just gave away an awesome new product idea. Insert copyright here, patent pending, blah blah blah... Claimed! (reference to TWD)
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,477
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
Anybody tries to steal your idea, we'll sic your dog on them!
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Anybody tries to steal your idea, we'll sic your dog on them!
Soon, you'll be able to send a mini-drone at least one thousand feet high to hover over you flashing a red or white strobe, while putting a spot light directly on you with horns going off and live GoPro streaming to the internet, plus sending a DSC distress call to the CG and a INREACH courtesy update to your wife at the same time, all for $350/unit--batteries not included, plus a subscription to "DroneSolutions, Inc" for today's on the go mariner! No pyrotechnics needed! After rescue the drone flies to your home or the nearest yacht club w/which you have reciprocity for recovery.
 
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pupluv

.
Nov 11, 2007
90
- - wilmington, ca
Personally, I'd like to see a movement away from pyrotechnics all together = Less Fire Hazard and Less Cost over Time. Strobe lights are visible at great distance,
I agree and I emailed the USCG asking for a list of electronic devices that are approved to replace flares for night use.

No reply yet but it's only been two weeks.
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,722
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Only Jackdaw has mentioned practice. My biggest fear is panic and forgetting where-the-hell any sort of emergency equipment is. I lost a cap in Jamaica while sailing a 14' resort Hobie cat. MOB drill never crossed my mind until we were safely back on shore. With no cap.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Time to get Phil involved. Here's what I want. If I'm gonna spend my dollars it might as well be here at SBO. I can't find something like this in the store. http://www.landfallnavigation.com/-ssfk0.html Sorry about the competition's add but this is exactly what I want for starters.
I think this kit you propose from Landfall needs the 3'x3' orange emergency flag. SBO sells 2 different versions: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?2483/ I'll be ordering one, USCG Aux courtesy examination pointed it out to me. Don't need flares or smoke on my inland lake :D
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Only Jackdaw has mentioned practice. My biggest fear is panic and forgetting where-the-hell any sort of emergency equipment is. I lost a cap in Jamaica while sailing a 14' resort Hobie cat. MOB drill never crossed my mind until we were safely back on shore. With no cap.
We have a dedicated practice day each year. If you want to race with us its a good day not to miss.. This is actually mandated by our OSRs.

We review emergency procedures and gear before each race series.

We practice MOB techniques during race postponements. Its a better used of time than motoring around drinking a beer.

Here's a BIG one, have a person nominated to take charge of the boat if something happens to the skipper. If I go MOB, I want someone totally IN CHARGE, no discussion. When we cruise two-up, clearly thats Pia. So I make pretty sure she can get the boat back to me in as wide a range of conditions as possible.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
This morning I was looking over some data reported by the USCG on boating fatalities for 2014 due to drowning. Forty-nine percent of 418 drownings were known to have occurred from open motor boats < 16' in length; 35% from boats 16 to < 26' in length, only 1.1% from boats 26' to < 40', and zero above 40' (there is an "unknown" category for the remaining fraction). A very high majority of drowning fatalities occurred on inland waters during calm conditions and were attributed to combinations of operator inattentiveness, improper lookout, operator inexperience, excessive speed, and alcohol. Altogether, there were 117 drownings from "falls overboard" (28%), but mostly in the categories above. So, you can estimate the probability of death in a given year by drowning from falling overboard from a boat 26' to 40' in length as 0.28 x 0.011 = 0.003. But, that would be any boat; not specifically a sailboat.

Without going into all of the numbers, total fatalities due to sailing (15/610) x all drowning fatalities from falls overboard (117/418) x all drowning fatalities from boats 26-40' (5/418) = 7.3 x 10 ^-5; or about 1 chance in 14,000 in a given year. Assume an average of 500 such fatalities per year, and x 28 years of boating, you have: 1/14,000 x 500/yr x 28 yr = 1. That means it's an empirical "certainty" that averaged over a period of 28 years of boating, only one registered boater (i.e., the data base) operating in the US who drowns will have fallen overboard from a 26' to 40' sailboat while sailing, and then probably drowned b/c s/he was not wearing a lifejacket. The fear that it could be you, or a member of your crew, is what drives the purchase of all of this MOB safety equipment IMHO!! Maybe that's why the numbers are so low.

http://www.uscgboating.org/library/...reational-Boating-Statistics-2014.pdf#page=36
 
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Dan_Y

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Oct 13, 2008
521
Hunter 36 Hampton
Nice analysis. Makes me wonder how many fall overboard each year but are rescued and don't become a statistic. 2:1, 10:1? And of those rescued, how were they or the crew were equipped? I don't think a rescued MOB it's reportable if no injury is involved.
As a scuba diver we would dive wrecks 25-35 miles off shore in NC and carried a strobe, whistle, mirror and 6-8ft inflatable safety sausage (like the Dan buoy) in case you surfaced away from the boat or the dive boat broke free and had to come back and find you on the surface. From experience, you can hold your arm vertically behind a safety sausage in 10-15kts and keep enough of it vertical to probably be seen in a MOB situation, which is important because, also from experience, an adult head is more or less invisible in the water on a bumpy day. I keep a divers strobe on my vest if its evening or night, but makes me think that carrying a 4ft inflatable diver's safety sausage might be a great idea on a bumpy day. They are only about 5in long and 2in diameter when stowed. Easy to clip on a belt, harness, or slip in a pocket. Might be a good back up if the Dan buoy is being blown away from the MOB on a breezy day or if you don't have a dan bouy.
http://www.amazon.com/Diving-Signal-Inflator-Sausage-Crafted/dp/B004CBHPQK
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I think the low expectation for the number of drownings due to falling overboard from a 26-40' sailboat is because falls overboard are themselves exceedingly rare. Life-lines, jacklines & tethers, numerous hand-holds, non-skid decks, and the high occurrence in modern boats of "all lines led aft to the cockpit" help keep crew on the boat. Add granny bars in the older boats, & then roller furling & reefing headsails and mainsails, all designed to minimize the risk of being pitched overboard while tending the sails, etc. When you do read the occasional magazine article of husband overboard, etc., the wife manages to get the boat back and to get him back aboard. So, well placed MOB recovery equipment and recovery practice routines really only backstop the existing very low likelihood that a crew (at least a non-racing one) will even fall overboard to begin with (and then drown) if using common sense and the devices in place to help one remain aboard.

That said, some of this discussion has nevertheless made me think about being in the water as a MOB when the wind and sea are up. Namely, trying to face toward the boat while bobbing and getting washed over. Perhaps not too hard if your back is toward sea and the boat downwind of you; but what if you get downwind of it? Your comment on diving suggests to me that a snorkel and a small pair of goggles be included in a rescue (MOB) pack so the victim could at least breathe and see what's going on around him/her w/o salt spray in the eyes and mouth. One cannot really "climb aboard" one of those life rings. A proper LJ should keep your head and mouth out of the water (if you're wearing one when you hit the water--but most people do not wear one aboard), but what about wind blown spray or, forbid, spume?
 
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