Replacements for flare kits.

centerline · Dec 12, 2015

woodster said:
so if you use an expired flare in an emergency situation and get rescued do you then have to stand charges for illegal activity one has to wonder

Its not illegal to have expired flares or to use them when needed, but for your vessel to remain in compliance, you need to have flares onboard that are NOT past their expiration date...
if you do need to fire one or two off, use the expired ones first, and save the non expired ones so that you can remain compliant....

woodster · Dec 12, 2015

centerline said:
Its not illegal to have expired flares or to use them when needed, but for your vessel to remain in compliance, you need to have flares onboard that are NOT past their expiration date...
if you do need to fire one or two off, use the expired ones first, and save the non expired ones so that you can remain compliant....

thanks for the response i was just poking fun at how crazy things have gotten over the past years ...but i have read boatus advisory and am wondering about the floating ones as i never see them on the retailer's shelf

Newport Bob · Dec 12, 2015

Here is the solution; does not expire.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290132|2290134&id=2896900

Jackdaw · Dec 12, 2015

Newport Bob said:
Here is the solution; does not expire.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290132|2290134&id=2896900

I think non-pyro distress signalling has a great future. God know I hate the things.

But in many tests the light from this device was simply not seen, OR worse not seen as a distress signal. A simple LED flickering in the distance can mean many things. Hard to mistake a flares intent.

Warren Milberg · Dec 12, 2015

Has anyone here ever had to actually use a pyrotechnical visual distress signal? Hopefully, not. But if you did, can you describe what was used, how it was used, and what the result was? In over 40 years of boat ownership and sailing, I have never come close to needing to do this....hope it stays that way.

LakeOntario270 · Dec 12, 2015

I purchased this at the Annapolis boat show to meet my legal requirements.
https://siriussignal.com/
The kit also included a signal flag and a whistle.
I also will keep my expired flares on board.

centerline · Dec 12, 2015

Newport Bob said:
Here is the solution; does not expire.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290132|2290134&id=2896900

I think thats a decent option or addition for most boaters, but the offshore cruisers may want a bit more.
For most of us with an already large stash of flares on board, that device would allow us to remain in compliance without purchasing additional pyrotechnics every three years...

Davidasailor26 · Dec 13, 2015

25yearslater said:
This is my only means of signaling other than flashing light Morse Code as I do not have a VHF aboard.

I wonder if, from a risk reduction standpoint, your money would be better spent on a handheld VHF than replacing the full set of flares you described. Maybe just replace the minimum number of flares for compliance and use the leftover $ for the vhf.

njlarry · Dec 13, 2015

Truth be told, many boats do not always monitor. In certain areas of the Chesapeake channel 16 is cluttered with constant calls for marina reservations. I wish that the CG would prohibit ship to shore marina calls on 16.
I would want a vhf over an ebirp unless at sea. You can communicate the nature of your problem, receive instructions, communicate with other boats etc and even be located via dsc which automatically is relayed through all surrounding dsc vhf units, which greatly extends the range. Ebirp is only for life threatening situations and I suspect has a much longer response time. Unlike a vhf, none of the boats near you will know of your need.
In addition to my fixed mount I have two hand helds, the batteries last for days.
As I posted before, flares are a pita to use when you have real situation on your hands and do not allow real communication just "maybe there's a boat over there in unknown trouble and probably there's a boat closer by than us that can help." I keep flares for the outdated regs. In all the distress calls i have heard not once did the CG or a towing service ask for flares.
please consider a handheld vhf, the cost is low and you will use it more than you think.

Jackdaw · Dec 13, 2015

Emergency communication gear comes in two basic types:

1) One that broadcasts EMERGENCY
2) One that lets you communicate the nature of your needs

Flares and EPIRBs are Cat1. You use one and big help will come no matter what your issue is. It's why I call it the Nuclear options. Its all or nothing.

VFH and InReach are Cat2. You can uses them to get big help and assistance for sure, but you can also communicates smaller needs that does not require the USCG to task a RB-M.

I'd consider the most important one of those to be VHF and I can't imagine being on the water without one, but that can be funny. Some smaller lakes you find NO VHF use at all, boaters (in particular power boaters) use cell phones. On Lake Minnetonka, no one uses VHF (not even the sheriff water patrol) except the Yacht Club for race management. On a non-race day, you can go all day without hearing a hail on 16. But on big water, in particular water the USCG patrols, don't leave the marina without VHF.

Ken Cross · Dec 13, 2015

We did away with pyro flares. We went with the electric one:
Sirius Signal SOS Distress Light with Distress Flag
(google it) I do have to say it is built pretty cheaply made in my opinion, but it's legal and I think it's safer.

Hey Phil: maybe you should stock these.

I gave away our flare kit and now we just need to keep fresh batteries.
Ken

Ken Cross · Dec 13, 2015

25yearslater said:
I must say the evolution of this thread is quite enlightening. The variety of options are as varied as sailors themselves. It is refreshing to see so many take this one area of equipment as seriously as I do. Here is my particular situation. First is the ability to summon help in the event of a catastrophic medical or life threatening event. The rest as a prudent mariner should be within my ability to respond. Of course one never knows what is likely to be beyond their ability until it happens. This is for me less likely than the previous scenario of life at risk. Not trying to be arrogant here. Problem one is the charter fish boats love chatting on VHF 16 continuously about most everything in my particular area. My basic sailing entails near shore coastal 3 to 5 miles out. The other sailing I do and plan to do more of this year after getting a passport is trans lake cruises. There are very few boats if any beyond 5 miles offshore and none on several journeys out beyond sight of land. The occasional ship transits the area but even they were few this year. I really am less concerned with compliance and remain more concerned with effectiveness in summoning help. The money while I like to whine is really not a concern considering the situation that will be present should I ever need to summon help.

And that's the real problem with flares: They only work if someone happens to be where they can see them, and looking.
VHF and Cell first then flares once you think you can get their attention.

Ken

Rick D · Dec 13, 2015

Interesting thread. FWIW, I keep 12 gauge flares. I also keep SOLAS parachute flares which we obtain from a liferaft repacker. I also have an EPIRB. It is hard to disagree that in coastal areas, VHF is the most important of these.
A real surprise are the comments that there is VHF abuse in some areas; folks tying up 16. That rarely happens in SoCal. Most respect that 16 is for calling and take their traffic elsewhere. Mexico... not so much, but not awful except maybe late at night when the fishermen are in their cups and the night ladies are trolling

rpwillia · Dec 13, 2015

When you consider the electronic LED flares can work for hours compared to seconds the advantage is obvious. It would be nice the see the USCG certify one of the red LED ones for use instead of the old flares.

Calif. Ted · Dec 13, 2015

Warren Milberg said:
Has anyone here ever had to actually use a pyrotechnical visual distress signal? Hopefully, not. But if you did, can you describe what was used, how it was used, and what the result was?

Not in real emergency but at USCG Aux shoot offs of expired flares I've had the opportunity to try them all. Shooting a 12 gauge Orion over a pitch black ocean disappointed me more than anything since I bought X-Ray glasses off the back of a comic book. It seemed like they went up 50', out 50' and burned about 5 seconds. Maybe that was just with the Pacific ocean as a background, makes everything smaller. When Redford shot one off in the movie I thought "You better aim that POS at the wheel house, but it still won't reach above the hull".
The orange smokes show REALLY well if you have any light.
BTW last time I needed Vessel Assist on a fishing boat in the fog it was pre-GPS and they found us by RDF, I'd have to transmit every now and then for him to check his heading. The local Harbor Patrol boat still has an antennae but don't know if anyone still uses it.

Kings Gambit · Dec 13, 2015

Kings Gambit said:
It's a bit confusing, but I think SOLAS is a rating, not a manufacturer. Orion manufactures SOLAS-rated flares. I think Landfall is just a retailer, not a manufacturer (not so?); so who's SOLAS flares are they selling?

The SOLAS-rated parachute flare on the left is an Orion product as sold by Defender for about $53.00; the SOLAS-rated parachute flare on the right is a PainsWessex product sold by Landfall for about $40.00; same specifications. So, there may be your competition (re: comment #7 above)!
http://www.painswessex.com/home