Replace Shut off ball valve under sink

Ralph Johnstone · Aug 25, 2014

Seems Spot On ................

bobcat30 said:
$564 labor to install $100 in parts. (including $2 for gloves).

Thanks. tired of being screwed by the labor costs.

BobCat30:

........................... compared to what you'd pay here. $378 for the lift alone.

I'd almost managed to forget this one until you resurected it. Painful

Anonymous 121765 · Aug 26, 2014

Bob,

That's sad pal. Boatyards are known for raping boaters. They should fly pirate flags.

I wish you would've start a thread first, the guys would have given you advice on doing it yourself. We're talking about replacing a simple ball valve, not building a watch.

I've changed out valves in-water several times on different boats. There are several ways to plug up the thruhull & do changeouts.

You need to chalk it to experience, now that you know more & are wiser. Sorry about the price tag.

CR

kito · Aug 26, 2014

Goes to show that if an owner took time and did their homework first, it can save hundreds of dollars. I hope you took advantage of the free haul out and did some other bottom work............

thinwater · Aug 26, 2014

Not sayin' the OP didn't get worked a bit, but...

The cause. I'm guessing the valve was broken by ice, even if the damage showed up later, which is the reason it was covered by insurance? If so, that is because the OP did not winterize correctly. Perhaps did not take the time to learn. If a contractor had done the winterizing it would have been warrantee. Then, instead of finding the part, gaining the skills, and doing the swap, he paid someone. I could be wrong about all this, so I apologize.

The reason for the charges. In your day-job, what would you charge for each service? How much for labor (2 men, how long, how long would it take you)? How much for the time to go get the part? Time spent invoicing? Removing a through hull? Cleaning up? What would your company charge for your time? I'm sure it would be at least 3x your pay rate. Presumably it is either skilled or unpleasant labor or you would have DIYed it. Both types cost extra. What would your companies charge for a lift (like a large crane, and remember the travel lift slip is part of the equipment, as is the wash pad)? What would you charge for wastewater treatment (the water does not flow into the sewer or back in the river)?

Personally, for a contracted job, I don't see anything wrong with either example. They seem fair. If any mistake was made it was that of not offering an estimate first. Good yards will do that even when not asked, knowing that the customer most probably does not understand what is involved and that some manner of estimate reduces unpleasantness later.

Anonymous 121765 · Aug 26, 2014

Thin,

Their is no reason that a thruhull fitting had to be changed out unless, it had damage. ANSI & ASME codes all have standardized sizes for pipe, valves, hoses & fittings. That being said, you have a standard size drain hose leading to thread x barb fittings that screw into a standard size ball valve, probably 1/2".

Now being aware of these standardized codes which have been in effect for eons, why was a thruhull changeout necessary? Bob never said there was damage to the fitting. If so, yea, a changeout was necessary but, then again if this was the case, I would think Bob would've initially covered that.

If not the case, he was simply RIPPED off! Boatyards have been known to do this to folks they deem unknowledgeable. I can give you thirty years of proof that this is common practice.

CR

Guts1236 · Aug 26, 2014

When replacing my ball valve for the sink it spun the through haul. There was so much corrosion that I could not tighten or remove the nut, so I cut the nut and remove the through haul. Replaced the through haul and ball valve myself I believe the cost is about $180-$200

kito · Aug 26, 2014

Here's my guess.....they destroyed the thru hull trying to get the ball valve off. They told you that they put a new thru hull in to match the ball valve they had......did you get your old one back? You should have kept your original thru hull if it was still good...if not then they owe you for it.

Anonymous 121765 · Aug 26, 2014

KITO,

Good call pal. Can't wait to hear what Bob says.

CR

Kings Gambit · Aug 26, 2014

bobcat30 said:
Thanks. tired of being screwed by the labor costs.
BobCat30:

Some people will pay $20 for $0.50 plate of linguine with some clam sauce on it just so they don't have to cook it themselves and wash up afterward. Being screwed by labor costs? Learn how to boil water and you're good. Be thankful that there are boatyards still allowed to conduct business in MA.

thinwater · Aug 26, 2014

I've heard of some dishonest yards but never been a victim. Swapped bottom paint brands. One coat instead of 2. And charging for screw-ups that should have been on their learning curve. Certainly most yards can make a job more complicated than it really is, by fixing more than needs fixed. If you really feel a certain yard does not work in your interest, by all means spread the word locally. References are everything. But if other yards quote the same rates, there are probably legitimate reasons. Boat ownership is complicated and it most certainly is NOT for everyone. For others, it is a labor of love. For few of us is it truly rational--of maybe it is, since some rewards are above price. Like marriage, you've got to learn how it works and not linger on the cost.

One the other hand, as stated above, frequently one thing leads to another. And none of us would run a yard with rates any lower and long stay in business. I suspect most of us charge $250-1000/hour our own time when hired-out as consultants (or what ever is equivalent).

But we don't get paid that figure, and even less after taxes. If we enjoy marine work and are efficient as a skill craftsman with our time, we can produce better quality work, for far less cost, and learn to understand our boat in the process. Like the cooking example, you either enjoy it and learn to do it well, or you pay another man as you would pay yourself as a businessman.

Anonymous 121765 · Aug 26, 2014

All I know from experience is that, you never try to unscrew a valve attached to a thruhull fitting (that has been in place for years), without insuring that the fitting is secure from ANY turning thus, ruining the seal. This I can assume, the high-paid(?) workers DID NOT DO & if this was the case, the fitting had turned.

I've seen this happen before several times because of lack of forethought and/or procedure.

CR

kito · Aug 26, 2014

Actually, they probably didn't even try to twist off the old valve. They got their Sawsal out and cut off the valve, removed the old thru hull, smeared some 5200 on a new one and screwed the new valve on. Probably a 45 minute job max......but charged over 5 hours. Nice racket they have. I was thinking how much I would have to charge myself for the time I put into my project boat so far. I would be up to 20-30k in labor costs at those rates

Bob S · Aug 26, 2014

I'm with Thin, not sure Bob got ripped off. I don't know why it needed to be addressed so quickly must have been leaking. At 60/hr that's one person for 9.4 hours @ 75/hr that's 7.52 hours. I hate it when I take my car to a mechanic and see a 90/hr billboard posted on the wall. I am definitely a do it yourself 'er as most of us are. Not because I have to but I like to. What better way to learn how our boats work! I don't believe Bob is. Boating is expensive even for us do it yourself guys. It takes me an hours just to find the tool I had in my hand 10 minutes earlier

. I'm assuming either Parker's or Kingman did the work both are reputable centers. Besides you got to ride with Becka most of the summer. Can't beat her smile

kito · Aug 26, 2014

Bob S said:
I'm with Thin, not sure Bob got ripped off. I don't know why it needed to be addressed so quickly must have been leaking. At 60/hr that's one person for 9.4 hours @ 75/hr that's 7.52 hours. I hate it when I take my car to a mechanic and see a 90/hr billboard posted on the wall. I am definitely a do it yourself 'er as most of us are. Not because I have to but I like to. What better way to learn how our boats work! I don't believe Bob is. Boating is expensive even for us do it yourself guys. It takes me an hours just to find the tool I had in my hand 10 minutes earlier . I'm assuming either Parker's or Kingman did the work both are reputable centers. Besides you got to ride with Becka most of the summer. Can't beat her smile

9 hrs to replace a stinking ball valve? I cut my old gate valve off, installed a new thru hull and ball valve and had it hooked up in under an hour by myself.

Kings Gambit · Aug 26, 2014

I have ONE TH that needs replacement. Two quotes: both over $400 but included the haul out. Base rate for labor at Marina Shipyard, Long Beach is $116/hr. In Ventura it's closer to $80/hr. It's higher at Long Beach, I was told, due to higher environmental fees and regulation that forces more enclosure, containment, & clean-up, etc., at the Yard. As I said; BobCat30 is lucky there is a yard nearby. In ten years he might have to sail to Bermuda to get a bottom job; the way things are going!! In SC many owners sail to Ensenada to get work done.

Anonymous 121765 · Aug 26, 2014

Bob & Kito,

Both posts got me to thinking more. I think we have now crossed over to dissimilar metals & the galvanic effects of the chemical repercussions thereof. Brass & bronze do NOT go well with types of carbon steel. Hell, Aluminum has similar problems also, chemically, electrically & galvanic wise.

My 1980 C30 had bronze gate valves with rising stems all over the boat. The valve bodies were of one material, the seats & stems of another metal. I finally & happily went from metal gate valves to Marlon ball valves. Check them out, you may be impressed. First, there is isolation from dissimilar metals & the Marlon BALL valves never seize (fresh or salt) & are made heave duty. They are all working, 15 years later.

Unlike gate valves, ball valves are, "Positive shutoff valves", gate valves are NOT. Because of dissimilar metals, gates are prone to, "Chemically freezing" for one. Seats seize & stems break, so you may find yourself locked open or closed. Not where I want to be. Salt water also compounds the problem, just add stray current or electrolysis viola, a breakdown is sure to happen.

CR

Anonymous 121765 · Aug 26, 2014

I almost overlooked another important aspect to think about, that I left out of my previous post. Many on here, come from all over, some in fresh water & some in saltwater.

My boat had all bronze thruhull fittings (not anymore), half were close to failure. These thruhulls can work fine in fresh water but, maybe not in saltwater, where surrounding boats are running electrical systems 24/7 & your in an enclosed area where the current bounces.

Stray current can eat away at a bronze thruhull fitting. This problem can over time, elevate and/or cause the fitting to fail.

My suggestion for sailors with a boat docked in saltwater, having surrounding boats running electrical systems, CHECK yearly & remain proactive.

CR

Bob S · Aug 26, 2014

CR. I believe Bob sails a MK III which has Marelon thru hulls. I think Thin was correct in his assumptions of incorrect winterizing. I was curious why this late in the season to be repairing.

The Garbone · Aug 26, 2014

I replaced the valve under my sink last winter. Had the factory glassed in pipe as a thru hull. I drilled it out and replaced the entire thing with a Type 93 from Forespar. $64 and a tube of sealant as well as some resin coated plywood backing. Under $100 plus labor.

Replace Shut off ball valve under sink

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