Removing a mid-ship cleat after 25 years (Hunter 40.5)

[BigEasy]

Suggestions and comments from all of the experts?

I had a similar problem a couple years ago where the sheaves for the genoa furling line was bolted to the toerail with stainless steel threaded fasteners. Tried multiple applications of PB blaster & Liquid Wrench over several days. I eventually destroyed the
phillips heads on the threaded fasteners. There was sufficient space for me to cut a slot across the fastener head using a separating disc with a Dremmel tool. I used the largest flat blade screw driver that I had with a rectangular shank & a large crescent wrench and vise grip pliers attached to the shank for greater leverage to break the corrosion. Worked for removal of six threaded fasteners.
I would definitely try heating the heads on your bolts also. Worse case, grind off the heads and use a punch to drive them out or drill them out. Hopefully your fasteners are not threaded along the entire length and the C clamp idea might work; however, if completely threaded, you'll have to drill them out completely. I used copious amounts of Tefgel on the new fasteners to hopefully simplify removal when I attempt to rebuild the sheaves in the future. Very frustrating how such a simple procedure can take days to complete.

 

[Rich Stidger]

If you have the clearance, I would use a large "C" clamp as a press, put a large Deep Well socket over the bolt head to clear the chock's ears, much better control than a hammer. Good luck

I thought of using a socket but there is virtually no clearance between the edge of the bolt and the body of the chock. But I do have a special socket that is cut out on one side that I could possible use. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[JamesG161]

I tried soaking the bolt and threads with vinegar hoping that the acidic vinegar would help to dissolve the corrosion.

Try a drop or two of Hydrochloric Acid [swimming pool supply type] around the rim of one bolt top. [cheap medicine eye dropper]
It will emit Hydrogen Gas, as it reacts, so easy to see it in action.

[Of course wear rubber gloves and chemical splash Googles over you eyes.]

It should take several tries , each time you should see more and more gap.
A Dremal cutter would, little by little, open the gap.

1) Acid , water rinse
2) Dremal , repeat as needed.


My bet would be not many acid attacks, until the bottom tap UP will free them.

Jim...

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

[Of course wear rubber gloves and chemical splash Googles over you eyes.]

Would these work ?

 

[Thaniel]

Can you remove the cleat with the bolts still attached?

 

[Rich Stidger]

Can you remove the cleat with the bolts still attached?

Since very heavy pounding on the protruding bolts from underneath is not causing any movement, I think the answer is NO. I think the corrosion is not only between the bolts and the cleat, but also between the bolts and the aluminum toe rail.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Try a drop or two of Hydrochloric Acid [swimming pool supply type] around the rim of one bolt top. [cheap medicine eye dropper]
It will emit Hydrogen Gas, as it reacts, so easy to see it in action.

[Of course wear rubber gloves and chemical splash Googles over you eyes.]

It should take several tries , each time you should see more and more gap.
A Dremal cutter would, little by little, open the gap.

1) Acid , water rinse
2) Dremal , repeat as needed.


My bet would be not many acid attacks, until the bottom tap UP will free them.

Jim...

Would regular FLA battery acid work?

 

[Sailor Sue]

If I understand your pictures the bolts extend outside the hull under the toe rail. If that is the case, how about a steel bar or angle iron 2 or 3 inches longer than the cleat, and two large C clamps.
Put wooden blocks on deck at either end of the fitting to protect the deck. Put the steel under the rail so it's up against the bolts and apply pressure at the ends with the C clamps. By applying pressure at the ends the bolt heads aren't covered and you can apply and hold constant pressure as the solvents work.

 

[Rich Stidger]

If I understand your pictures the bolts extend outside the hull under the toe rail. If that is the case, how about a steel bar or angle iron 2 or 3 inches longer than the cleat, and two large C clamps.
Put wooden blocks on deck at either end of the fitting to protect the deck. Put the steel under the rail so it's up against the bolts and apply pressure at the ends with the C clamps. By applying pressure at the ends the bolt heads aren't covered and you can apply and hold constant pressure as the solvents work.

Another good idea! I'm going out today to buy a couple 8" C-clamps. Now to find a steel bar. Thanks.

 

[JamesG161]

Would regular FLA battery acid work?

Yes, but you might get Sulfur Di-Oxide gas bubbles with Hydrogen gas too.
HCl is better.

Jim...

PS: Wear you Goggles not your Google glasses per @Ralph Johnstone

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Yes, but you might get Sulfur Di-Oxide gas bubbles with Hydrogen gas too.

And what problems will the SO2 cause ? Will the H2 be re-purposed, hence the need for purity ?

Enquiring minds want to know;

 

[JamesG161]

And what problems will the SO2 cause ?

Hydrogen + SO2 --> H2S or poison gas , but not to worry , just wear scuba tank with Googles

cough cough...
Jim...

PS:

 

[Morgan donor]

If the bolts are indeed a carriage bolt, you'll have to go up with the bolts not down. Square peg/ round hole under the round head.
Hunter may have 5200'd the bolts and cleat in place. If you don't get anywhere with a C-clamp, PB blaster, and propane heat....maybe try the solvent for 3M5200 and see what happens.
The other thought I had is that this cleat will function just fine w/o those rollers turning. If it ain't broken... don't fix it!

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Hydrogen + SO2 --> H2S or poison gas , but not to worry ,

Ever wonder what the word "pedantic" means ?

 

[Daddio417]

Tap,Tap,Tap

 

[Rich Stidger]

If the bolts are indeed a carriage bolt, you'll have to go up with the bolts not down. Square peg/ round hole under the round head.
Hunter may have 5200'd the bolts and cleat in place. If you don't get anywhere with a C-clamp, PB blaster, and propane heat....maybe try the solvent for 3M5200 and see what happens.
The other thought I had is that this cleat will function just fine w/o those rollers turning. If it ain't broken... don't fix it!

Hmmmm. If nothing works I may have to just leave them as is. But I tend to think if the manufacturer designed the rollers in they must serve some purpose. But you certainly have a point.

 

[PJL]

Has been a couple of years, but had to replace one of my similar cleats on my passage 42. Replaced both to keep them the same... One had broken the top restraint due to some very heavy surge in La Paz, Mexico. Had the new replacements made from Stainless for extra strength. Took a bit of work to get the bolts out, but I did not have the issues you describe. My boat was 20+ years old at the time. YES, they are carriage bolts.

Good luck, and do consider making replacements from SS. BTW, my replacements do not have the "spinning" pieces, but wear on the lines does not seem to be any worse. Might even be possible to use a larger diameter vertical pieces to help compensate for "no spin".

 

[Rodsails]

I must have lucked out with mine on a 1987 Legend. If like mine it's a carriage head bolt. Yes, you have to drive it up from the bottom If the bolts are corroded to the plate then the plate and bolts should drive up off the deck and then you can work on them on a workbench. FYI

 

[rgranger]

Y'all be careful with those acids.

HCl will aggressively attack metals, especially aluminum. I’d stay away from that one but if you get desperate enough to try it, Muriatic Acid is another name for HCl.

Sulfuric Acid (battery acid) does not attack metals that much but it is very aggressive toward organic materials (i.e. your cloths skin and eyes). It will absolutely destroy any canvas it comes in contact with.

Have you tried Tarn-X? It contains sulfamic acid which is known for removing metal scale.

 

[smokey73]

I'll check with my boatyard. A few years ago I had some hurricane damage that required a portion of the aluminum toe rail to be removed and replaced (by the way, I still have some left). Not sure how they did it but they removed many of the bolts and with no damage to the bolts. I'll try and call them.

Smokey