Regs clarification. Need input

[Justin_NSA]

If you were you going to specify what constitutes an authorized shore power cable, how would it read? Do you have you own the marina book verbiage? We'd like to make it as clear as possible what meets NEC marine requirements. Their description isn't that clear unless you are an electrician.

 

[dlochner]

It would be helpful if you could put a link to the section you are referencing or include the NEC language in your post.

Thanks.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Here it is. To the layman it just raised more questions

Compliance with the National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements for power cords in marinas dictates:

§ Extra-hard usage portable power cables rated not less than 75 degrees c (167 degrees f), 600 volts, listed for both wet locations and sunlight resistance; and having an outer jacket rated to be resistant to temperature extremes, oil, gasoline, ozone, abrasions, acids and chemicals shall be permitted.

· Cables shall be properly supported.

· Cables shall be located on the underside of the pier.

· Cables shall be securely fastened by nonmetallic clips to structural members other than the deck planking.

· Cables shall not be installed where subject to physical damage.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It seems that they are talking about "portable" cables and including provisions for securing the cables to the dock. You are talking about the shore power cables that the boat owners use, not the cable runs for power out to the docks, correct? Most people just drape the cable along the boat, no? Some boaters have some connectors, I've seen, so that the cable can be secured to stanchions and lifelines. So the connectors at the underside of piers don't really apply. What's your question?

 

[capta]

That reg seems to be for running power to a pedestal on the dock. If you are doing that, take this;"Extra-hard usage portable power cables rated not less than 75 degrees c (167 degrees f), 600 volts, listed for both wet locations and sunlight resistance; and having an outer jacket rated to be resistant to temperature extremes, oil, gasoline, ozone, abrasions, acids and chemicals shall be permitted." to a wholesale electrical supply and they will supply you with what you need. It is probably the same cable you'd need for a remote swimming pool pump, etc.
If you are trying to build your own shore power cables, I'd suggest you don't. The premanufactured ones have molded ends that water cannot penetrate, and I don't think you can equal that quality.

 

[dlochner]

The bullet points seem pretty clear, there should be little doubt about them.

Your concern about the cable description is justified. While I think most people, if motivated, could figure it out and buy a proper cable, in this situation going for the lowest common denominator is appropriate.

If this were my marina, I would list the NEC code so there would be no doubt. Then I would identify acceptable brands, like Marinco, SmartPlug, etc.

To be even clearer, add a plain language description, such as:

The only acceptable power cords are those cords in good repair with sealed plugs. Cables must be appropriately sized for the current, i.e. a minimum of 10 gauge wire for 30 amp service, 8 (?) gauge for 50 amp. The cable cover must free of any damage such as cuts, cracks, or chafe. Connectors and cables shall be free of corrosion and shall not show evidence of overheating, scorching, or burning. Homemade or DIY cables are not acceptable. Commercially produced cables that have been modified or repaired by adding or changing connectors, splicing, or shortening are not acceptable. Adapters of any type may not be used. The management has the sole right to determine the condition of the power cable and whether it is acceptable for use in the marina.

Boat owners are encouraged to use SmartPlug cables and to add an ELCI and GFCI to their AC system.

 

[rgranger]

I think @capta is right. That is for the run to the pedestal.

 

[dlochner]

It seems that they are talking about "portable" cables and including provisions for securing the cables to the dock. You are talking about the shore power cables that the boat owners use, not the cable runs for power out to the docks, correct? Most people just drape the cable along the boat, no? Some boaters have some connectors, I've seen, so that the cable can be secured to stanchions and lifelines. So the connectors at the underside of piers don't really apply. What's your question?

That depends on the marina, the boat, the location of the pedestal and the location of the shore power inlet. In my marina some boats do run their cables under the dock because the pedestal is on the opposite side of the dock. Some run the cable under the finger to the inlet. They seldom cruise so there is no need to remove the cable for traveling. I dock to starboard and the inlet is on the port side, so the cable runs along my port side deck to the bow and then to the pedestal.

 

[jviss]

Commercially produced cables that have been modified or repaired by adding or changing connectors, splicing, or shortening are not acceptable.

Boat owners are encouraged to use SmartPlug cables

So, you are saying chopping off the boat end of a commercial shore power cable and fixing a SmartPlug connector is unacceptable? I wouldn't agree with that.

 

[dlochner]

So, you are saying chopping off the boat end of a commercial shore power cable and fixing a SmartPlug connector is unacceptable? I wouldn't agree with that.

If it was my marina and I decided that was the rule, then you would either follow the rules of the marina or look for another marina. We're not talking about public entitled space, we're talking about a private marina, follow the rules or go elsewhere. Someone will fill your slip.

 

[jviss]

If it was my marina and I decided that was the rule, then you would either follow the rules of the marina or look for another marina. We're not talking about public entitled space, we're talking about a private marina, follow the rules or go elsewhere. Someone will fill your slip.

Well, then I won't be going to your marina, captain! Someone conscientious enough to switch to SmartPlug, and fix a SmartPlug connector to their shore power cable is not a problem! Note that to trash a commercial cable and buy a SmartPlug factory cable is a $200 expense, and SmartPlug sells retrofit kits with the boat-end connector so owners can upgrade a cable.

I think you would be quite the draconian marina owner.

 

[Justin_NSA]

I can see I was not clear and neither are the regs. We are trying to define acceptable shore power cables that run from the pedestals in the center of the docks, down the fingers and to the boats in the slips. The cables need to be run under the dock to avoid a trip hazard and not fall into the water. NEC tries to define this but it's hard to understand for some. They also define what is an approved cable.
I'm not sure you can shop for a cable with these specs, or even know if your garden cable is suitable. It may work for your use but it may not meet National regs.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I think @capta is right. That is for the run to the pedestal.

I guess that was what is confusing to me. The part dealing with the "portable cable … shall be permitted" seemed to referencing the users shore power cables. The bullet points about the connectors seemed to be about the service runs to the pedestal. I wasn't sure which was the subject!

 

[jviss]

I can see I was not clear and neither are the regs. We are trying to define acceptable shore power cables that run from the pedestals in the center of the docks, down the fingers and to the boats in the slips. The cables need to be run under the dock to avoid a trip hazard and not fall into the water. NEC tries to define this but it's hard to understand for some. They also define what is an approved cable.
I'm not sure you can shop for a cable with these specs, or even know if your garden cable is suitable. It may work for your use but it may not meet National regs.

I still don't understand the problem. Are these customer-owned, 'portable' cables, or marina owned, permanent cables?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Well, then I won't be going to your marina, captain! Someone conscientious enough to switch to SmartPlug, and fix a SmartPlug connector to their shore power cable is not a problem! Note that to trash a commercial cable and buy a SmartPlug factory cable is a $200 expense, and SmartPlug sells retrofit kits with the boat-end connector so owners can upgrade a cable.

I think you would be quite the draconian marina owner.

Rules is rules! Besides, what's $200 to a yacht owner! That's like the daily lunch tab, no?

 

[jviss]

Rules is rules! Besides, what's $200 to a yacht owner! That's like the daily lunch tab, no?

Actually, at some places I went last week $200 wouldn't cover lunch!

 

[dlochner]

Well, then I won't be going to your marina, captain! Someone conscientious enough to switch to SmartPlug, and fix a SmartPlug connector to their shore power cable is not a problem! Note that to trash a commercial cable and buy a SmartPlug factory cable is a $200 expense, and SmartPlug sells retrofit kits with the boat-end connector so owners can upgrade a cable.

I think you would be quite the draconian marina owner.

Yep, those are the ones RC won't install.

 

[jviss]

Yep, those are the ones RC won't install.

And why is that?

 

[dlochner]

And why is that?

WARNING: I will be honest here and say that I much prefer a new cord set and inlet as compared to the retrofit kit shown here. We don’t and won’t install replacement cord ends for customers.

Scroll down towards the end.

Shore Power - SmartPlug vs. 1938 - Marine How To

SmartPlug vs. 1938 In today's day and age it is far and few between that I come across products that: #1 Do as they say. #2 Are built to an exceptional standard. #3 Redefine what great is. The SmartPlug is one

marinehowto.com

 

[jviss]

Got it, yes, I can see his perspective; but doesn't mean that this can't be done competently, at all.