Refrigeration preferences

[Chuck Creel]

the Co2 system in my newly acquired H-31 isnt cooling and i'm considering replacing it with something i'm more comfortable with and more efficient.

i have tried the norcold conversion kits and wonder if the adler barbour units are more efficient and last longer. ?

I am also considering a small dorm fridge mounted under chart table from wally world for less than a hundred bucks.

any input from adler owners appreciated as well.

So far I love the boat.

 

[Ross]

Re: refridgeration preferences

The first consideration on cold food storage is the amount and quality of insulation. 4 Inches or more of extruded foam insulation will keep cold very efficeintly for the least energy input. The small "dorm refers" anticipate unlimited power sources and those don't exist on a boat.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Re: refridgeration preferences

My dorm fridge replaced the pressurized stove/range. It draws one amp of 110 or about nine through the inverter. It runs less than half time so figure five amps per hour. I installed an Adler/Barbour in the icebox and it is only slightly more efficient. In the slip I leave the dorm fridge on so the beer is cold when I (used to) get to the boat. The A/B installation can be seen in the H37C Owner's Mods.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: refridgeration preferences

What Ed says parallels just about everything we've gleaned over the years, and Ross' observations are spot on. 5 amps per hour, 60 AH per 24 hour day. Insulate, save energy. The difference in efficiency is negligible, but will be much higher with insulation. That said, we have a 24 year old boat with the original Adler Barbour, only had to change fans for the condenser coil twice, found a drop in Radio Shack fan for $24, half of the $45+ from the fridge store. Never had to recharge, and it's freon, R22, not CO2. I have a friend who's certified to recharge, but he and his equipment are in Chicago. Drats!

The newer units use newer refrigerant. AFAI know, only Norcold does an auto switchover to AC from DC when you plug in. We've had many skippers in our group who have sued the dorm fridge concept, too.

Inverters can be fun, but do an energy budget and understand how you'll recharge beforehand.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[zeehag]

Re: refridgeration preferences

our dorm fridge lasted 3 months..lol....is the water in gulf cold enought to use the keel cooling system?? i thought the water was too warm for that?? but then i am not a fridge expert but would like to know.......

 

[Ross]

Re: refridgeration preferences

As the water gets warmer the ability of it to remove heat from the condensor diminishes. Much like heat pumps for home heating.
My ice box uses between 5 and 10 pounds of ice per day depending upon the outside temperature. Ice hae a latent heat of fusion of 143 btu's per pound which means I could keep cold in my ice box with a refrigeration system that delivered 75 btu's per hour. They don't make them that small, but that is what 4 inches of insulation and a carefully fitted lid will do.

 

[Chuck Creel]

Re: refridgeration preferences

Thanks for all the input. it is wonderfull to have this resource for helpfull information.

I searched the knowledgebase and found Ed's project in his cutter 37 as well as an actuall h-31 ice box install project.

happy sailing and best wishes for our friends on east coast.

 

[Steve Dion]

Re: refridgeration preferences

Chuck:

The problem with the dorm refrigerators is that they will not work when you are away from the dock.

If you are looking for a good quality ice box conversion I suggest that you take a look at the IsoTherm SP units. They are very efficient. The only down side is you need to have the boat hauled to install a new thru hull for your galley sink drain.

http://www.emarineinc.com/index.php?cPath=51_86&osCsid=8eaac57d77c42b70ba30bd8861608be1

Unfortunately there is not much access to add any insulation. You can probably put some over the area that is exposed in the starboard side lazarette. I would use some of that rigid stuff that you can get at the home improvement stores.

 

[zeehag]

Re: refridgeration preferences

dorm fridges work when you are away from dock--but they dont work for long--about 3 months. they are not fond of invertors. we found that one out .....

 

[FastOlson]

"Frigoboat" notes

I have clocked a number of years with a Frigoboat "keel cooler" system. It is very thrifty.
As to the supposition about water temp, remember that you are exchanging heat with a liquid and this is magnitudes more efficient than exchanging with the hot ambient air with the little radiator and fan on your boat reefer.
One of the main selling points for the keel cooler scheme is its efficiency at heat transfer in hot climates like Mexico.

As others have pointed out, the first priority is to create a well-insulated ice box. Ours was done well from the factory and I later added another inch of closed-cell foam on all sides I could access.
If anyone is curious, there is a thread on this subject at the Ericson Owners' site.
My contribution starts at about reply #14, but there is a lot of info from other owners. Matter of fact, if you register and do a search on "frigoboat" there are other threads as well.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=1663&referrerid=28
I guess you could assume that all sailors want their beer cold.

Anyhow, as boat upgrades go, I rank this way up there, right below self tailing winches and my Harken furler.

Cheers,
L

 

[Ed Schenck]

Re: refridgeration preferences

Still not not sure why the "dorm fridge" gets a bad rap. Mine was installed by a previous owner so is at least twelve year old. It will keep beer cold for a day or two without power, the insulation is that good. But it runs fine on the inverter, always has. When we were under power a lot, like in the Erie Canal, it was always on. On the long ocean passages under sail we might turn it off rather than run the diesel. Still the contents stayed cold.

 

[zeehag]

Still not not sure why the "dorm fridge" gets a bad rap. Mine was installed by a previous owner so is at least twelve year old. It will keep beer cold for a day or two without power, the insulation is that good. But it runs fine on the inverter, always has. When we were under power a lot, like in the Erie Canal, it was always on. On the long ocean passages under sail we might turn it off rather than run the diesel. Still the contents stayed cold.

.. we had a brand new dorm fridge and were able to use it 3 months before it went totally dead...dead dead. wouldnt even work when we went to a dock.; done and dead. 3 months -- is why they get a bad rap.

they dont make stuff like they used to , either--these days stuff is made in china-even the stoves--- phillip's brinkmann lasted many years, but died on our trip--- we bought a camp stove in wally's and it lasted a few weeks.....yipes......

chuck--would be a big project, but if the keel deal does well in warm eater, go for it--has always sounded like a good system to me.....

 

[woodster]

Chuck:

The problem with the dorm refrigerators is that they will not work when you are away from the dock.

If you are looking for a good quality ice box conversion I suggest that you take a look at the IsoTherm SP units. They are very efficient. The only down side is you need to have the boat hauled to install a new thru hull for your galley sink drain.

http://www.emarineinc.com/index.php?cPath=51_86&osCsid=8eaac57d77c42b70ba30bd8861608be1

Unfortunately there is not much access to add any insulation. You can probably put some over the area that is exposed in the starboard side lazarette. I would use some of that rigid stuff that you can get at the home improvement stores.

i am so glad to see some one post this on here as i am installing one in my buddys boat next week ....i have searched a lot of units and am convinced that this will serve him well in the southern part of this country....not so sure about new england in the winter months...i will also put one in my boat when the time comes ....i will give results on this when it is available.....

regards

woody

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

.. we had a brand new dorm fridge and were able to use it 3 months before it went totally dead...dead dead. wouldnt even work when we went to a dock.; done and dead. 3 months -- is why they get a bad rap.

they dont make stuff like they used to , either--these days stuff is made in china-even the stoves--- phillip's brinkmann lasted many years, but died on our trip--- we bought a camp stove in wally's and it lasted a few weeks.....yipes......

c

Is this based on one refrigerator or have you had multiple ones from different manufacturers?
Also, how can you know definitively all refrigerators are made equally?

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Re: refridgeration preferences

One of the huge inefficiencies of a dorm fridge is the door. When it's opened, all the cold air dumps onto the sole. Not so with top loaders like our ice boxes, converted or not.

 

[Hermit Scott]

One of the huge inefficiencies of a dorm fridge is the door. When it's opened, all the cold air dumps onto the sole. Not so with top loaders like our ice boxes, converted or not.

Front loading dorm friges are nice at the dock. Once away, everything shifts around and becomes a hazard to open.
I have seen pics of boats that have doors on the top and front. But I am sure they didn't spend less than $100 for them.
Walmart and Lowes has a dorm frige that has a separate freezer door and compartment. I will eventually install that because of price and they are convenient. But I don't cruise, just hang out at the dock and daysail.

 

[sailaway78]

Dorm Fridge

I have had a total of three of these little wonders. None lasted very long. At first I thought it was something to do with running off an inverter. But recently I have talked to some others who have had similar problems, and one thing all seem to have in common was LG compressors. I always looked for one with the least amp draw, and seems like LG was always the one. In defense of the last one, which lasted about three months, it has a freon leak, the compressor runs fine. I am going to try one more, but gonna see if I can find one with something other than an LG compressor. As to power usage, mine have ranged from .9 amps to 1.5 amps on 110 volt current, which is approx. 9 to 15 amps on 12V. DC. The 300 watts of solar I have, keeps batteries fully charged, even mid summer, and the fridge stays cold, long as the compressor don't give up the ghost. I think my next major project will be to cut up a little dorm fridge, and install it in the ice box. Adding a bunch of extra insulation. Have all the potential problems figured out, with the exception of cooling the condenser. Still muddling around with that.

 

[zeehag]

Is this based on one refrigerator or have you had multiple ones from different manufacturers?
Also, how can you know definitively all refrigerators are made equally?

small product base as i usually go without fridge--isnt difficult to do that--i wont have another dorm fridge in my boat---not efficient enough-i will make do with my engine driven cold box...is far enough from the engine to not become hot when i run the engine, as some do.(the one in my ericson does that , so does the one in nne's boat--both of those need more insulation....)
all fridges are NOT made equally. i know that from many many years of experience. they dont make them like gm used to make frigidaires. those were awesome. never had a problem with my rebuilt one--lol--- havent yet had a good time with a newer one.

 

[Steve Dion]

Woody:

We really like our Isotherm SP. We did not get the holding plate or unit with the ice cube trays. Ours just has the evaporator plate. I installed as much of the unit as I could, but we need to get a special tool to drill through a stringer (free standing icebox) on our Hunter Vision 36. We have a lot of insulation in the box, but the lid seems to be the biggest issue. I have recently doubled the insulation around the lid and now need to keep the box turned down very low to keep things from freezing.

Good luck with the installation.

The unit makes almost no noise and also does not emit very much heat into the boats interior (another big advantage). There is no fan.

 

[woodster]

Woody:

We really like our Isotherm SP. We did not get the holding plate or unit with the ice cube trays. Ours just has the evaporator plate. I installed as much of the unit as I could, but we need to get a special tool to drill through a stringer (free standing icebox) on our Hunter Vision 36. We have a lot of insulation in the box, but the lid seems to be the biggest issue. I have recently doubled the insulation around the lid and now need to keep the box turned down very low to keep things from freezing.

Good luck with the installation.

The unit makes almost no noise and also does not emit very much heat into the boats interior (another big advantage). There is no fan.

just what i wanted to hear steve thinks much for the feed back....i do like the fact that it can be put in the gally area in the cabinet next to the box and it is quite and not very much heat because it is water cooled ...

regards

woody