Reefing: Procedural Questions

[kappykaplan]

I find it easier to shake out a reef than take one, and it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[duck21]

@Ward H -- Thank you for this outline -- this is very helpful. I don't have a block at the at the clew, just a bowline. I have a piece of dynema with rings that pass through the sail at the reef points on the luff. I have a block and tackle setup next to the mast, with the top block attached to the ring on the sail and the bottom block attached to the mast base plate, probably adding friction but giving me some mechanical advantage to pull the sail into the reef. The final pass goes from the top block down to a turning block at the base of the mast then leads back to the cockpit. The 376 has a big main sail (traditional Hunter B&R rig so extra roach plus a tall mast) so the extra turns do help with getting things pulled down. I have two reefing points, each is setup identically. I should note that this setup was all present at the time that I bought the boat, I have not made any modifications.

I was attempting to bring the reef point all the way down to the boom, with minimal success. When I practice in lighter winds I'll see if placing the reefed tack/clew points higher helps with sail shape.

The information about the clewlines [EDIT: buntlines? Nettles?] (thanks to EVERYONE for that input) is also helpful. I was thinking of those lines as there to help with sail shape. It sounds like I was wrong, I'm glad I didn't try that and rip up my sail. With that info, I suppose my usage will depend on how long my sailing day looks and how variable the winds are in the islands.

I'm still going to have to figure out the Dutchman side of this. As @Scott T-Bird noted the ideal world is to release the topping lift and let the sail (or a rigid vang) take the weight. With a soft vang and the foot of the sail shortened while reefed I'm really not sure if it can support the boom. The challenge is keeping the boom above the bimini. The boom on this boat is quite heavy -- opposite of Scott I ran my topping lift back to the cockpit as I struggled to manually raise the boom when hand pulling at the mast. There is more friction, but in the cockpit I can throw the topping lift on a winch in order to find the right height.

In my experimentation I'll have to try letting the topping lift out slowly and see what happens.

Unfortunately I'm not going to be back to the boat for a few weeks, but I'll report back when I get a chance to shake things out!

Doug

@duck21
As others have mentioned, tying the buntlines to the boom is not recommended as it is too easy to get them tight enough to rip the cringles out of the sail. On my sails, both old/soft and newer stiff, never needed the reefed cloth to be tied up. It lays against the side of the boom and doesn't luff.
As for a single line system, here is what I've done. @Hayden Watson taught me this set up.
At the tack reef point and clew reef point I installed Harken Air Blocks which are very light. I used soft shackles to attach them to rings on the other side of the cringle.
I start the reef line with a bowline at the aft end of the boom positioned so the reef line goes straight up to the block at the clew reef point and back to the end of the boom, into the boom to the mast. It exits at the mast goes up to the tack reef point, through the block and back down to a block at the base of the mast, then back to the cockpit. I installed BB sheaves in the boom ends. This ensures the least possible friction.

My procedure, when I'm ready to reef, is to let out the main sheet. I then lower the main halyard to a pre marked point on the halyard for reefing. That mark puts the tack reef point about 8-10" above the boom.
I then pull in the reef line to a pre mark on that line. The clew end of the line pulls the clew reef point down to within 8-10" of the boom AND the angle back to the boom end applies outhaul tension to the clew reef point. The reef line pulls the reef tack point down to 8-10" of the boom.

I then sheet in the main. I keep the boat sailing under the Genoa while putting in the reef.

Keeping the tack points 8-10" above the boom keeps the reef line from rubbing agains the sail which would cause friction. Using all BB blocks also helps to reduce friction so the line tension is equal enough to tack and clew to provide decent sail shape.

I know that using separate reef lines for tack and clew allows better trimming of the sail but I'm very happy with my single line system.

Edit: I can put in and shake out a reef in under a minute while never leaving the cockpit.

 

[jviss]

As others have mentioned, tying the buntlines to the boom is not recommended as it is too easy to get them tight enough to rip the cringles out of the sail.

Let me ask you a question then. If they are such a bad idea, why have they been used for hundreds of years, if not thousands?

Again, they are not buntlines, they are nettles. And, they protect and preserve the sail by preventing it from wear by flogging.

"Clewlines and buntlines are lines used to handle the sails of a square rigged ship." (Via wikipedia.)

Buntlines are used to haul up the middle of a square sail when furling.

 

[duck21]

Indeed, this past weekend I deployed my sails directly into the reef.

However, we had already motored out of the anchorage and into the (much windier) channel before deploying the sail (there was interest in motoring over to another island to go ashore, so we started under motor power. At some point minds were changed and we decided to head back for home, at which point I put up the main at the second reef point).

However, it being an upwind sail, I was not happy with sail shape and was considering going forward to tie off the buntlines -- but was uncomfortable going up to to do so in the chop/wind, which then lead to the original set of questions. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't (lesson: clewlines [EDIT: buntlines? Nettles?] are for sail gathering, not for strengthening the reefed foot). That said, I'm glad this has lead to an interesting thread.

Doug

I reef to the forecast, often before weighing anchor. I find it easier to shake out a reef than take one, and it's better to be safe than sorry. Besides, my boat sails faster with less heel.

 

[duck21]

I think the distinction that's perhaps getting muddled is that of the function -- some folks (definitely me, perhaps others who have damaged their sail) assumed those lines were there to create an artificial foot in order to preserve sail shape in a reef. However, based on others experience (damaged sails) and info from this thread I've learned that this the wrong use and trying to use the nettles [new vocab] this way is a bad idea.

The proper use of the nettles to keep the excess sail in place and keeping that sail from experiencing wear and tear is obviously not a bad idea, but is new information to some of us with a little less experience.

Doug

Let me ask you a question then. If they are such a bad idea, why have they been used for hundreds of years, if not thousands?

Again, they are not buntlines, they are nettles. And, they protect and preserve the sail by preventing it from wear by flogging.

"Clewlines and buntlines are lines used to handle the sails of a square rigged ship." (Via wikipedia.)

Buntlines are used to haul up the middle of a square sail when furling.