Reefing: Procedural Questions

[duck21]

Hi all,

While we get out and sail pretty regularly, the Admiral (and our dogs) sometimes get a little nervous around higher winds, so we tend to be more fair weather and/or choose to motor. Not that we CAN'T operate the boat should bad weather come up, we just typically choose not to (given that we mostly cruise in a fairly secluded set of islands within 30 miles of our main port choosing to motor in rougher weather isn't a hard choice). This is a long way of saying, while I'm practiced at reefing, we don't actually sail under reef very often.

We have a single line reefing system -- a set of blocks at the mast that hauls the sail down with the line running through the boom that pulls the leech down and tensions to form the foot. Pretty straight forward, all doable from the cockpit. We have a Dutchman system, so presumably the excess sail is held in place by the filaments. This is also what leads to my questions:

When reefed do most folks rely on their sail flaking system (Dutchman, Lazy Jacks) to hold the flaked sail in place, or do you typically use sail ties/lines to lash the excess sail to the boom (I'm asking mostly of coastal/island cruisers -- I think tying off the excess sail would always make sense if you're going to be sailing in higher winds for many hours/days at a time while on an extended passage)?

If you do tie off the sail, how do you go about that -- do you try to do so while the sail is under power (which could be tricky, walking on the coach roof in an upwind sail while the boat heels), or do you do this while the sail is luffing (which, in my experience, can be quite violent in a relatively high wind situation)? If the latter, do you just keep the boom centered and the bow pointed into the wind? (I'll note, we do have grommets in our sail, so tying things down IS an option, I'm just not sure how to totally go about it).

Yesterday I ignored a few Admiral/pet protests and we did do some reefed sailing (winds were 15 to 20, gusting to 25). I raised the main with the reef in place, but I did not go on top to tie things off. I considered tying things off, but wasn't comfortable going up top with the sail luffing. I thought about heaving to, but in doing so, with the main sheet fully released, I can't reach the majority of the boom from the deck (so tying off becomes quite difficult). I ended up sailing just relying on the Dutchman, although pointing upwind was difficult as the sail shape wasn't great. Also, one of the Dutchman filament cars popped off the topping lift, so we had a bit of sail flopping around (this may have been more of a filament tensioning issue, though, not exclusively because we were reefed).

The sailing was fine, although eventually I was convinced to put the sail away and we had a nice (mostly up wind) motor back to port.

Curious as to others thoughts/procedures.

Thanks!
Doug

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Dutchman lines aren’t designed to and won’t hold a sail in a blow regardless of tension. That’s why it’s necessary to tie off. You should be able to safely reach at least one or two sections of the boom without acrobatics depending on the size/shape of your dodger/bimini.

 

[duck21]

That makes sense (and aligns with my experience). I may try tying some "permanent" tie offs on the grommets then practice reefing (and tying) in lighter winds. I wouldn't mind sailing more in heavier winds, although I need to get the crew accustomed bit by bit.

 

[kappykaplan]

I let my sailpack contain the reefed main. If I knew I'd be maintaining the reef for an extended period, I'd consider putting a sailtie or two through the grommets in the main. If it's really blowing stink, I'd have no problem with motoring into the wind to add the sailties.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I have the same set-up as you do with single-line reefing and a dutchman system. Don's right that a dutchman system isn't intended to take the strain that may result from reefing; however, I don't think the dutchman needs to or should take any strain even when you don't tie off. I always slack my dutchman before raising the main anyway. I only tension it again when readying to drop the main fully. BTW, I've never had to replace the filaments yet in 4 seasons going on 5.

I never tie off the loose folds and don't have grommets anyway. That said, I only have a single reef and don't have double reef points. I reef frequently and have found that the single reefing system is more difficult to get the sail shape done well. My previous boat had lines for the leech only and ram's horns for the tack. I found that system better for sail shape. But we have to deal with what we have. I find that the shape improves when I don't try to draw the tack as close as possible to the boom. The clew never gets quite close enough and the shape is distorted if you try to draw the tack down too tightly. @Ward H taught me this idiosyncrasy. I try to draw it down just snug enough to the point where the clew can't get any tighter and the tack matches the height of the clew.

I'll suggest that you do not have to bother tying off the folds. They hang relatively undisturbed when you are on a single-reef. I found the double reefed sail could use some tidying up on my previous boat, but not even necessary when sailing shorter time periods. It sounds like you want to do more sailing under single reef point but you aren't going to sail when needing the double reef. I would slack the dutchman and not worry about tying off the sail. When I mean slack, I'm not talking about slacking to the point that the filaments are flopping around (that just allows chaffing). Just slack enough to relieve the tension so the filaments can move with the sail without any resistance.

You are right ... there is no easy way to tie off the loose sail material in rough conditions. I think there is no reason why you should think that you have to.

 

[JoeWhite]

Reefing is performed before the wind picks up. Learning the weather is the key. I do not tie the excess sail as the sail may become torn. Ask me how I know. As noted above the Dutchman reefing lines will not keep the sail from falling off the boom. Check the cars, they should not fall off the topping line. The line should be 1/4" thick.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Reefing is performed before the wind picks up.

in an ideal world.
I suspect we’ve all be surprised by conditions we didn’t/couldnt anticipate and i infer that prompted the OP to solicit opinions.

 

[shemandr]

I don't think you are supposed to tie the buntlines around the boom - I don't know why. On my Mark 25, which had a Dutchman system and a foot that was in the boom channel. I did not tie the buntlines because they would have to go around the boom. I would let the first reef excess sail hang.
I had trouble setting up single line reefing on my Ranger. I think getting the tension right at the clew and tack is a challenge. I think that's because the distance the clew reef line has to come in is different than the distance the tack reef line has to come down That was a loose footed main and I did tie the lines I could reach - sometime on the cabin top. It's not that scary because you go up on the high side and would fall into the sail if you lost footing.
Regarding your Admiral/Pet problem, I would go out in mild weather with the reef tied in - with good sail shape. Then shake it out if necessary. But if a bit more wind comes up you will find that sailing with a reef makes a much calmer situation which both Admiral and Pet will appreciate. The heel will be less, the helm more balanced and the sail trim easier. In short - more fun.