Hi - I'm looking for some suggestions on rebedding the handrails and stantions on my Irwin 28. I'm getting water leaking into the main cabin during rainstorms. It looks like it's either coming in at the hand rails or at the lifeline stantions. I'm planning on rebedding both to hopefully cure this issue. What's the best sealant to use - I was thinking of 5200? Anything I should be careful of or avoid doing? Thanks, Cal
rebedding stantions and handrails
- Thread starter ctalmage
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Yes !! Avoid 5200 adhesive caulk. You may want to take
these apart someday. Countersink the bolt holes on the outside. Use strong backing plates and depend on the fasteners to hold the parts in place. The caulk will fill the voids.
these apart someday. Countersink the bolt holes on the outside. Use strong backing plates and depend on the fasteners to hold the parts in place. The caulk will fill the voids.
4200 would be better here's a link
http://www.irwinyachts.com/Drawings-Manuals-Engineering/Drawings-manuals-Engeneering.htm Hope it helps-- Joe
http://www.irwinyachts.com/Drawings-Manuals-Engineering/Drawings-manuals-Engeneering.htm Hope it helps-- Joe
If it were me..
If it were my boat I'd use 3M 101 as they WILL eventually need to be re-bedded in the future and even 4200 is MORE adhesive than necessary for mechanical fittings.. I like 3M 101 because it's easy to remove in the future and it does not have the DEATH grip of 5200 or the half death grip of 4200 that is not needed in a mechanical connection. In my experience the polyurethane sealants continue to harden until they become almost brittle and polysulfides stay rubbery for the duration depending on UV exposure.. My Take, from years of experience, is that in 20 years the 3M 101 will still be very close to it's 416% elongation at break and the 5200 or 4200 will be less than that of 101 given nature of polyurethanes as they continue to harden over time.... Elongation at break and tensile/grip strength: 3M 5200 = 1350% Tensile Strength = 700psi 3M 4200 = 900% Tensile Strength = 300psi 3M UV400 = 800% Tensile Strength = 300psi 3M Silicone = 350% Tensile Strength = 220psi 3M 101 = 416% Tensile Strength = 139psi The tensile strength of polyester resinated fiberglass (what your boat is made of) is between 400 and 500 psi. Why one would want to adhere something to their hull at 700 psi, that will literally tear the gel coat clean off the substrate, if not removed patiently and carefully, is out of my realm of comprehension!!!! If you must use a polyurethane use 4200 not 5200!!!
If it were my boat I'd use 3M 101 as they WILL eventually need to be re-bedded in the future and even 4200 is MORE adhesive than necessary for mechanical fittings.. I like 3M 101 because it's easy to remove in the future and it does not have the DEATH grip of 5200 or the half death grip of 4200 that is not needed in a mechanical connection. In my experience the polyurethane sealants continue to harden until they become almost brittle and polysulfides stay rubbery for the duration depending on UV exposure.. My Take, from years of experience, is that in 20 years the 3M 101 will still be very close to it's 416% elongation at break and the 5200 or 4200 will be less than that of 101 given nature of polyurethanes as they continue to harden over time.... Elongation at break and tensile/grip strength: 3M 5200 = 1350% Tensile Strength = 700psi 3M 4200 = 900% Tensile Strength = 300psi 3M UV400 = 800% Tensile Strength = 300psi 3M Silicone = 350% Tensile Strength = 220psi 3M 101 = 416% Tensile Strength = 139psi The tensile strength of polyester resinated fiberglass (what your boat is made of) is between 400 and 500 psi. Why one would want to adhere something to their hull at 700 psi, that will literally tear the gel coat clean off the substrate, if not removed patiently and carefully, is out of my realm of comprehension!!!! If you must use a polyurethane use 4200 not 5200!!!
Rebeding
Do not use 5200. If you need to remove a stanchion, due to a minor accident, you'll be taking the fiberglass with it. Check chain plates and even and tracks that may be bolt to the hull. i redid all stanchions and chainplates on my boat and used 4200. Good luck! SH
Do not use 5200. If you need to remove a stanchion, due to a minor accident, you'll be taking the fiberglass with it. Check chain plates and even and tracks that may be bolt to the hull. i redid all stanchions and chainplates on my boat and used 4200. Good luck! SH
Cutting 5200 to free your hardwear
Avoid 5200 PO used it (I think)to mount deck hardwear on my Cat 30". Factory used silicone witch held up well. I'm rebeding with 4200. but I may try 3m 101. You have to cut the 5200 off and on the long stays I have not been able to get underneath as the bolts are glued also. I bought a heat gun and I may give that a try this year. Thay dont leak so I hate mess about to much.
Avoid 5200 PO used it (I think)to mount deck hardwear on my Cat 30". Factory used silicone witch held up well. I'm rebeding with 4200. but I may try 3m 101. You have to cut the 5200 off and on the long stays I have not been able to get underneath as the bolts are glued also. I bought a heat gun and I may give that a try this year. Thay dont leak so I hate mess about to much.
Butyl Tape
What happened to the love affair with Butyl Tape. It seems a few years ago that was the cure all for every re-bedding job. I actually bought in and re-bedded my handrails and they have held up quite well. Is there a problem with this product that has has come to light? I was planning on doing my stanchions this year, but have decided to wait one more year. I had thought about the Butyl Tape as an option.
What happened to the love affair with Butyl Tape. It seems a few years ago that was the cure all for every re-bedding job. I actually bought in and re-bedded my handrails and they have held up quite well. Is there a problem with this product that has has come to light? I was planning on doing my stanchions this year, but have decided to wait one more year. I had thought about the Butyl Tape as an option.
butyl tape??
Thanks for all the input. I've never heard of butyl tape - anyone else have any experiense with it or info on it?
Thanks for all the input. I've never heard of butyl tape - anyone else have any experiense with it or info on it?
Excellent product
Butyl tape is an excellent product for bedding hardware. It never hardens and will move with the boat. Butyl is used to seal windows in automobiles. It is not effected by the sun or seawater.
Butyl tape is an excellent product for bedding hardware. It never hardens and will move with the boat. Butyl is used to seal windows in automobiles. It is not effected by the sun or seawater.
I use butyl but..
I use butyl tape but it's becoming very hard to find in the flat 3/16 inch thick by 1/2" wide "tape" version these days. I still have about 1 roll of grey 3/16" thick X 1/2" wide that I'm saving for certain uses. I used to be able to custom order it from Portland Glass but they can no longer get the flat "tape" style. If anyone knows of a sources of the gray colored flat butyl tape please let me know. This stuff works well with a bevel or countersink around each screw hole and a "rip and roll" (rip off a piece and roll it into a string diameter) around each bolt..
I use butyl tape but it's becoming very hard to find in the flat 3/16 inch thick by 1/2" wide "tape" version these days. I still have about 1 roll of grey 3/16" thick X 1/2" wide that I'm saving for certain uses. I used to be able to custom order it from Portland Glass but they can no longer get the flat "tape" style. If anyone knows of a sources of the gray colored flat butyl tape please let me know. This stuff works well with a bevel or countersink around each screw hole and a "rip and roll" (rip off a piece and roll it into a string diameter) around each bolt..
Butyl Tape
The butyl tape I used (from an RV store) did harden after about a year. Had to do over with sealant. I wouldn't use it.
The butyl tape I used (from an RV store) did harden after about a year. Had to do over with sealant. I wouldn't use it.
Neoprene
Could you use Neoprene rubber for this? I have to rebed some deck hardware also and was wondering about this. It seems like it would work well. Cut to fit the base of whatever piece and then drill holes for the bolts that are slightly smaller. When the piece is tightened down it should compress slightly giving a good seal. It is said to be resistant to nearly everything and very durable. The site below sells 3mm for 12.85 a foot. Anyone ever tried using this?
Could you use Neoprene rubber for this? I have to rebed some deck hardware also and was wondering about this. It seems like it would work well. Cut to fit the base of whatever piece and then drill holes for the bolts that are slightly smaller. When the piece is tightened down it should compress slightly giving a good seal. It is said to be resistant to nearly everything and very durable. The site below sells 3mm for 12.85 a foot. Anyone ever tried using this?
Neoprene, not neoprene FOAM
Mac, i know people who have used neoprene sheeting as a gasket mateial and it works very well for them. You can buy it from McMaster or Grainger or other industrial suppliers. But you absolutely do not want "Neoprene foam", which is what that link is selling. Neoprene foam, used for wetsuits, is not a good gasket material. What they call "plain neoprene" apparently means "neoprene without a fabric skin", not really plain unfoamed neoprene gasket material.
Mac, i know people who have used neoprene sheeting as a gasket mateial and it works very well for them. You can buy it from McMaster or Grainger or other industrial suppliers. But you absolutely do not want "Neoprene foam", which is what that link is selling. Neoprene foam, used for wetsuits, is not a good gasket material. What they call "plain neoprene" apparently means "neoprene without a fabric skin", not really plain unfoamed neoprene gasket material.
Clarification
Red, thanks for the clarification. Looked at McMaster and will definitely try that.
Red, thanks for the clarification. Looked at McMaster and will definitely try that.
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