Re-powering!

Tally Ho · Apr 1, 2021

Wow....

A 40-HP equivalent motor, plus batteries is almost $20,000.

If you can get by with a 20-HP equivalent, it only costs you about $11,000.

But I bet is pretty quiet...especially after the 30 - 35 NM cruising range :huh:

Stu Jackson · Apr 1, 2021

Scott Sadowski said:
Does anyone have any experience or advice Re-powering to electric?
I have a Pearson 35 with an old Atomic Four.
Replacing it with an Elco inboard.

Scott, don't know if any one here today has personal experience in that transition.

But be assured that many have made a conversion. This is a pretty popular subject on this and many other boating forums. The general consensus is that it makes sense if and only if you do not REQUIRE extended operating range. Recharging is also an issue unless you can plug in regularly. I'm figuring you know all this already.

I had a friend back in San Francisco (actually Alameda - the Oakland Estuary) with one in a Pearson 30. She loved it, although she simply couldn't motor the 45 minutes out the estuary to The Bay with any reserve capacity to return if there was no afternoon wind. It was an upwind slog to get out and ddw all the way home, at least in the summer. It was quiet, instant and quite good for sailing areas where one's marina is adjacent to good sailing grounds. My friend was literally limited to a narrow strip of water between Alameda and Oakland that rarely had any reaching legs to speak of.

I'm sure you could find hours, days, weeks, if not months of reading on this subject, with searches here and on other boating forums. Please understand, I am NOT just saying "Go search." What I am saying is that the answer to the question has been asked and answered and is pretty conclusive. What you are looking for are experiences that others can share. Because of those conclusions, and because we know many, if not most of the respondents on this forum still use ICE, I simply doubt you'll get much direct response. I'm simply trying to avoid having you wait in vain on this forum, and perhaps avoid the dreaded repeated: here's why you don't want to do this. BTDT. Your boat, your choice.

Not worth going there here, right?

I wish you luck in your conversion. There is great merit in not simply copying KW from HP as Greg says, for many reasons, including props and transmissions.

Good luck.

jon hansen · Apr 1, 2021

this is exciting. will be interested how it goes for you. cheaper than a new 40HP diesel replacement.

Stu Jackson · Apr 1, 2021

jon hansen said:
cheaper than a new 40HP diesel replacement.

Batteries don't come free and 9x $4,300 is quite dear. Lots of ways to compasre, but that's not what, I think, he asked. I agree, would love to see before & after.

dLj · Apr 1, 2021

Folks I know that have done this on the cheap have gone to automotive junk yards and bought the engines, controls and batteries out of crashed electric cars. But that is not for the faint of heart....

dj

jon hansen · Apr 1, 2021

bud just repowered his bristol 40. $30,000 was final tally.

and he worked at the yard, got a lot of discounts

jon hansen · Apr 1, 2021

in 5 years when the fuel at the dock pump is $15.00s. this idea will be looking good.
for sailors this is the future. for motorsailors ......................... well .................

dlochner · Apr 1, 2021

The key to repowering with electric is keeping the batteries charged and healthy.

Jimmy Cornell tried to sail around the world in an all electric catamaran and gave up shortly after leaving.

If the boat is day sailed and returns to a dock with shore power each day, there is no issue. However, if the boat is off the grid for a while, keeping the batteries charged will be an issue. It will take a lot of solar or a generator. AGM batteries need to be brought to a full charge regularly and that requires a generator or shore power.

Currently I'm involved with a possible repower on a 65' steel schooner to be used as a sail training vessel. One promising option is from Torqeedo, not cheap, but a nicely integrated solution. Elco has been using electric propulsion for a many years.

Electric Boat Drives | Torqeedo

The number one for sustainable outboards and inboards - Torqeedo offers electric outboard motors up to 100 kW, inboards, hybrid-systems, intelligent battery technology and accessories

www.torqeedo.com

Saw this video today about the Balmar SG 200 featuring Rodd Collins, it is a promo video however Rodd does a good job explaining some of the issues with charging batteries and maintaining them.

Dan and Kika on Sailing Uma have been using electric for several years in different iterations. They have a number of videos on the issues.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXbWsGV_cjG3gOsSnNJPVlg

If you subscribe to Attainable Adventure Cruising, John Haries recently wrote an article on Jimmy Cornell's Zero Emissions project. Good information in the article.

For many people, electric is a viable option. For others, it may not be ready for prime time.

jssailem · Apr 1, 2021

@dlochner

Good references that explain the issues yet leaves the possibility open that at some point in the future electrical powered boats maybe in our marina slips.

jssailem · Apr 1, 2021

Scott Sadowski said:
A small price to pay to be rid of the gas, oil, fumes, noise, vibration, etc. (Anyone need a 1968 A4?)

Sounds great, very exciting.

can use a generator to top up the batteries for the next time the motor is needed.

How will the generator be powered? If it does use a fossil fuel, it would be good to have a CO monitor onboard.

BigEasy · Apr 2, 2021

Any Elco mechanics/technicians in your vicinity?

dlochner · Apr 2, 2021

At a 12 HP equivalent, the Elco 12 seems a bit under powered for a 35 boat. How was your experience dealing with Elco? Did you change the prop? What type of batteries and how large?

TomY · Apr 2, 2021

Scott Sadowski said:
Thank you all very much for the info! I've researched many options and finally choose the Elco EP-12. All I need is to get in and out of the harbor - perhaps 150 yards? The harbor is in a bay (on Lake Superior) that is approximately 100 square miles so if there is wind it is immediate. I'm not back to shore power at night but can use a generator to top up the batteries for the next time the motor is needed. The motor only requires 4 batteries so the whole system is only about $10K. A small price to pay to be rid of the gas, oil, fumes, noise, vibration, etc. (Anyone need a 1968 A4?). If anyone knows of someone who has installed an Elco motor I would love to hear about their experience. Thanks again!

It's refreshing that you know what you need. The debate about the limitations of E propulsion is like arguing the number of gallons of fuel someone needs onboard.

Some people need a lot of fuel, some people don't. EV is here, lots of people are in.

I think if you search around the web you'll find users of the components you're considering.

Interesting and growing topic. Keep us posted.

jon hansen · Apr 2, 2021

my dad's alden 38' US one design had a 7 1/2 hp outboard in a well in the cockpit. we would pull it for sailing. it had plenty of push to go in and out of the harbor.
for a sailboat, your choice will have plenty of power i think.

we carried 6 gallons of fuel in the standard outboard tank of that era. we sailed that boat all over western lake erie for years,

it didn't have a self bailing cockpit either. we did not care. no electric bilge pump. no radio, no electric nav toys , no life lines .........

Justin_NSA · Apr 2, 2021

I think we have to realize that tradition may be yielding to technology in many cases.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

Bob J. · Apr 2, 2021

dlochner said:
At a 12 HP equivalent, the Elco 12 seems a bit under powered for a 35 boat.

Congratulations Scott on the move to electric. Your selection will be fine for your boat. Most electric drives do not have the efficiency losses associated with an ICE. They're not turning belts for alternators, water pumps or clunky transmissions. The basic rule of thumb has been 1KW of power per ton of displacement.

FWIW, my 28' boat has been electric for 5+ years. I can motor along at 3.5-4.5 knots consuming 1500-3000 watts out of the 48 volt bank which equates to roughly 2-4 HP. Although I installed a 10KW drive because it matched the 13 HP ICE previously in the boat, I could have sufficed with a 5KW unit....

Good luck with your project! You won't regret it.

shemandr · Apr 2, 2021

EV would work great in my old sailing ground where it was a 10 minute motor to the starting line. You could have or race or day sail and if necessary motor home a few miles. No problem. On the other hand a friend bought an EV powered sailboat and ran out of power on a windless day coming home from a longer regatta. It was a loooooong time before we saw him again.
I would post a few questions: 1) If you are using any version of LAB isn't it true that you shouldn't run them to less than 50% SOC? Seems to me like you're hauling a lot of battery around that you shouldn't use. 2) Is there any savings in weight over a Atomic 4 or equivalent diesel? 3) What is the role of Solar recharging? Can you realistically add a mile or two to motor in using solar re-charging?

dlochner · Apr 2, 2021

shemandr said:
1) If you are using any version of LAB isn't it true that you shouldn't run them to less than 50% SOC? Seems to me like you're hauling a lot of battery around that you shouldn't use.

Carbon Foam LA (FireFly) batteries can go below 50% DOD and more importantly stay at less than 100% SOC with out losing much capacity. Most AGMs will suffer if they are left in a PSOC state for very long. MaineSail ran tests for Practical Sailor a few years ago.

Re-powering!

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

.

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

.

.

.

.

.

.

.