Re-installing Beckson ports ...

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Feb 2, 2006
470
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
On my 1987 Hunter Legend 35 ....

I had noticed that over the past year or two, 5 of 6 of my Beckson opening ports were starting to leak brown stuff (water'ish) from behind the inside mounting flange. Clearly leaking around and not through.

I've pulled out two of the ports, and have found a small mess. I though I post here and solicit comments about how best to tackle this problem.

Current status: The plywood core from the cabin side is very wet in both the ports I have out, and is somewhat rotten in one of them.

My plan: My current thought, it to remove all 6 ports, and begin cleaning out rotten core material, and then let it dry, possibly over winter in order to maximize the amount of water I can get out.
Then, once dried out, and fully cleaned of rotten core, I'll fill the missing section of core with new wood, or just plain epoxy filler. I'd like to make a permanent bond between the inner and outer skin around the core, so no further water can make it to the core. The silocon use originally bonded well to the plastic of the port, but not as well to the edges of the opening in the hull (rough cut fiberglass, and the edge of the core plywood. I believe it will bond better to fairly smooth epoxy that I'll use to fill/replace the old core with.
At this point, I intend on re-using th old ports. They appear to be working well and replacing then with new ones would be quite expensive.
The Beckson website recommends trimming excess plastic that protrudes outside, beyond the exterior decorative flange. Hunter didn't do this, but I intend on doing this to help with the drainage of water that can sometimes collect there (even though these are the "rain drain" version of the ports).

Once the holes are prepared, and the ports fitted and trimmed on the outside to be flush, I'll remount them with black silicon (ports are black).

Is there anything else I should be doing to do this job right?

Thanks
Chris
 

Tim R.

.
May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Hmmm

Is the plywood truly a core or is it the inner surface that has a teak veneer on it?

I just did this with my '85 Ericson. I found that the plywood core dried fine but the veneer was damaged and the core of the plywood was punky. I removed all the veneer from the cabin sides and replaced much of the plywood core. I then applied new veneer over the repaired plywood, sealed the cutouts with epoxy and installed all new portlights.

See the link below
 
Feb 2, 2006
470
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
Hull liner

What I see, from outside in, is:

- Outer skin (gelcoat + glass)
- plywood
- inner skin (just glass)
- small space in between
- cabin liner (glass + gelcoat)

Chris
 
M

Maine Sail

Given..

The descripton it is entirely possible, and quite common, for the leaks to be both port and deck fitting leaks. The brownish goo dripping is rotting core and is likely coming from "above" the ports from hand rails or other bedded hardware residing on the cabin top.

The idea of drying, removing core and filling around each port with thickened epoxy is spot on but you also need to track down and above port leaks also.

A leak and water sitting on the bottom of the ports usually winds up in the side decks due to gravity and the wicking of the wood. A leak above the ports saturates the wood then when it can't hold any more you'll get the brown goo seeping out near he ports. Most owners automatically think the ports are leaking, which they may be, but more often when it leaks out of the port with goo it's a leak from elsewhere usually above..

New ports are a small price to pay compared to your time. If you are planning on keeping the boat consider new ports as Beckson's tend to get brittle with time. I replaced eight Beckson's this spring so I can empathize with your situation. Feel free to read my blog w/pictures and instructions on my web site in the "how to" section. Sorry I can't do a link on my phone... The web site link is in my signature..
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,987
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You may not have to refill the "empty" core space

sicne it's only air to begin with. If you seal the outside properly, there's no need to fill the void, just dry it out as you suggest. If you have any trouble getting the old ports out, try the link.
 
Dec 2, 2003
480
Catalina C-320 Washington, NC
Bit of bad news here.

This advice is often ignored because some people want everything to be quick and easy (obviously not you) and some repairs simply aren't if they are to be done properly and prudently.

From your description, your boat has what could be compared to a form of cancer. The repair you have described is in most respects the correct cure, but does not go far enough. If you don't do it right, you or the next owner will have to deal with it again in the future.

The problem is you can't dry out wet plywood core from the edge of the opening or by drilling holes and you can't use thinned epoxy (git-rot, etc.) to seal it because epoxy won't penetrate wet wood and won't even penetrate dry wood more than 1/4 inch anyway. If you seal it up while still wet, it will continue to rot. And if that wasn't problematic enough, plywood, unlike end grain balsa, wicks the moisture in different directions and distances due to the directional variation of the grain of the various plys and the degree of penetration of the laminating resin. This results in water damage, moisture and rot in places you don't suspect.

So, to fix the damage, you have to cut the liner away carefully until you get to dry and unstained wood. Replace all the wood that shows water stains with marine plywood or end grain balsa, bond it all back together with epoxy and then bond the liner back on with epoxy. Repair the joints or conceal them.

Then, seal the ends with at least a 1/2 thick band of filled epoxy by routing out the wood to that depth.

Note that silicone is a sealant, but not truly an adhesive except in certain limited applications. The only reason for using it the part being sealed is in contact with certain plastics (lexan, etc.) that are damaged by marine adhesives.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,987
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Chris is right about the damaged wood, but

I still don't believe you have to fill all of the voids. Epoxying the edges to avoid further future intrusion is a good idea. Reason I got off on the voids was an earlier discussion we had over at the C34 MB where the concern was voids between the headliner and the cabintop. Answer was pretty much the same, dry it out, re-epoxy the hole(s) re-drill and rebed. Pretty much what you got, only with a bigger hole!:)
 

RAD

.
Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
Went thru the same problem

With my ODay this sping with the port for the head,after removing as much of the wet wood as I could I then propped a heat gun and set it without the heat (air only) for a couple of days and that seemed to work well to dry it out then I made pieces of wood to fill the voids and epoxyed it all to make it solid
I did notice though that no way did it leak from above the area and that water intrusion from the port migrated to the wood above the port, not as bad as the wood below.
This winter I'm going to replace the two in the aft cabin and I'm sure I'll encounter the same problems

BTW
I never use silicone sealant on my boat but Beckson says that what you have to use on there ports, any comments on this
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,987
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Beckson recommendations

from Beckson.com port instalaltion manual:

Choice of Sealant:

There are many brands of caulk, adhesive and sealant available in your marine chandlery or hardware store, but be wary, not all are like. Many are for specific applications and may contain solvents that are destructive to thermoplastics. Chemical solvents should not be used for clean up.

Beckson recommends 100% silicone sealant only.

Beckson recommends 100% silicone sealant only. Availability of silicone varies regionally. Please contact your sealant manufacturer for the most up to date information with regard to materials and compatibility. Silicone has been around for nearly 50 years without sign of failure. Most other caulks and sealants fail after 10 years. When a port is installed properly, silicone works best for years of enjoyment.


****************
*****************

So, go out and buy some silicone:):):)
 
May 6, 2008
4
Hunter Legend 37 San Diego
Follow the Beckson Recomendations to the letter

Chris,
I went through the same drill on my Legend 37. The PO used life caulk and 5200. What a mess. I took the time to rebed them according to Beckson - even used the caulk they have available. I haven't had a problem in over two years. Make sure you follow the tip with prepping the surface and using the dish soap to coat the areas that you don't want caulk.

Clean up was a breeze and it looks better than factory.

If your windows are hazed up from the years of sun, people using bad things to clean them and all that weather, go down to Autozone or Kragen and pick up the 3M head light lens resurfacing kit for $15. You can make the windows look brand new in 15 min with that kit. It has everything you need to sand them down and polish the window to perfection with your drill.

Good luck!
 
Feb 2, 2006
470
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
water in the core!

Regarding the voids. Without filling the voids (missing/rotted core), the cabin edges around the ports will not be as sturdy as they should be. That would compromise the bond of any future sealing if there was a potential for flex.

Hunter (or possibly some earlier owner) had screwed the liner to the cabin to help make the opening a little stiffer, and to ensure there were no gaps/voids between liner and cabin top. There were about 6-8 screws, on the inside, holding the two layers together. The screw heads were hidden under the inner mounting flange on the port.

I am reasonably confident that the leaks have generally originated from around the ports, and not from other fittings (such as hand rails, etc). In one case, then core at the top of the opening is dry, in the other it is not, but I believe that the leak was at the top (or at various different places). Some of the ports have no fitting above them. In either case, it is probably wise to check and re-bed any nearby fittings.

Chris Burti's comment is probably on the money. If there is any significant water in the core, it will be very hard to get it all out, and to ensure no future problems, without some additional surgery. That decision will have to be a trade off between the value of the boat, how long I'll keep it, and a guesstimate of the likelyhood of serious problems coming back to haunt me.

I think I will probably try to dry it as much as possible over the winter. Fans may be a good idea.

Any good suggestions to how to extract as much of the plywood core as possible but while still providing a clean enough cavity to slide new core into?

Lots of great advice so far.

Chris
 
Dec 2, 2003
480
Catalina C-320 Washington, NC
i am not famiar with your boat...

... so it is hard to answer how best to remove bad wood in your case. The wood is in there for strength, and leaving it out will leave soft areas on the deck or topsides. It was put there for a reason, so I wouldn't recommend leaving it out without seeing the exact location and laying hands on it. If compelled by the geometry of the location to bail on replacing the wood, I would, at the very least, inject polyurethane foam as I have the skills and technical expertise to to do that competently. The traditional repair is really not bad if you have modest skills and basic tools.

On my old Cal 27-T/2, where I dealt with the problem, I used a rotozip with a carbide tip to cut three sides of a square in the liner. I peeled the liner back on the 'hinge' and taped it open with duct tape. I used the depth gauge on the RZ to carve out the bad wood and replaced it. Working upside down is a PITA, but I deemed it easier than trying to match non-skid patterns which can be a worse PITA. A disposable shower cap is a must.

Today, I would peel the deck instead and finish the repair as a band of plain deck like a border strip, then grind out the nonskid to match symmetrically on the opposite side and not deal with working overhead, the drips or with pattern matching.
 
M

Maine Sail

Chris ...

There are two methods of install for Becksons.

#1 Drill and countersink special flush mount barrel nuts (available from Beckson) into the exterior of the cabin then silicone the trim ring in place to hide the fasteners.

#2 Drill regular barrel nuts right through the trim ring. This method tends to look ugly and will also lead to more potential points for leaks.

If you use method #1 you'll need to have solid core behind it or the shoulder nuts could pull through after you countersink the holes.

There really is no effective way to remove core other than to remove the skins. I've had a chance to see injections, bottom side repairs and top side repairs and the only repairs even wroth spending time on are top skin removals unless you are well versed at vacuum bagging from the bottom. Folks who say bottom side repairs are great have never pulled the top skin off one after they finished..! Gravity works against you from the bottom and you wind up with voids..

I'd add some light bulbs to the underside of the cabin to keep it from freezing and to keep it drying. You'll never get it totally dry and unless it's oatmeal consistency rot and delaminated she'll survive to sail another day.

Consider New Found Metals Portlights over the Becksons you'll be glad you did as they are worth every penny and then some..!
 

Attachments

Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Replace with Newfound Metal ports!

Chris:

Consider replacing these ports with some from Newfound Metals. I don't know their current pricing, but they are worth a look see.

A fellow sailor at our marina did this on his H'35 and they look great. It is a little more work, but there is no caulking and the ports can be had with glass vs. acrylic/lexan.
 
M

Maine Sail

Pricing is..

More than Beckson but you get what you pay for. If I rememeber correctly my ports cost me about $60.00 each, more, than the same size Beckson's. Strength, added light bellow, durability and fit and finish are all so far superior that the $60.00 +/- seems like such a good deal when you put them side by side it's almost a no brainer.

What they do to your boat though in terms of aesthetics is the big reward!
 

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Jan 11, 2007
294
Columbia 28 Sarasota
I replaced my two opening ports...

I replaced both opening ports on my Oday 25 this year. The original ports were getting brittle and cracking, plus I was getting an annoying leak by the head sink.

I purchased the ports from the close out section of Beckson and paid $40.00 a piece. The down side is that the colors available are rather limited. The size I needed only came in silver, and they look quite nice. The barrel bolts were another 32.00. Each port required 10, plus the suggested 100% silicone sealant.

The new style Beckson port has an exterior trim ring that is only held in place with sealant. It is working so far, as I knock on wood.
 
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