Raymarine EV100 Rudder Reference install

Jun 1, 2007
257
O'Day 322 Mt.Sinai
Has anyone installed a rudder reference upside down? I tried to get away with it on my O'Day 322 by mounting it to the forward part of the steering quadrant (not really a quadrant, as it's a circular piece that the steering cables go around between the wheel and rudder). Anyhow, my install has the arm of the rudder reference going upwards to attach to the quadrant. Well, it fell out after an hour or so. So i tried again with Loctite (Blue). Same result. Before I get my fat behind down there and mount it on the aft side of the wheel right side up, does anyone have an idea for the upside down install?
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,989
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I did something similar on a B&G rudder reference with one difference. The unit was mounted upside down, however the arm and connector to the quadrant was right side up. This lets gravity work with you on the connector. At least on the B&G, the end is a ball connector that is threaded on to the rod, it was easy to just turn the socket 180°.
 
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Jun 21, 2004
1,908
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Mick,
I mounted my Raymarine rudder reference upside down also. Having same problem. The ball end attached to the adjustable threaded rod pops out of the receptacle that is mounted to the steering quadrant. I have a removable inspection plate that allows for easy repairs; however, it is an aggravation that I would prefer not having to deal with. I mounted upside down, in the present location because I didn’t want to cut a large hole in the aft bulkhead to mount it right side up. There is no way gain access to the small space. Have you tried tweaking the length of the rod?
 
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Nov 6, 2006
9,247
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Mine is upside down and the rod end does not come off. I think making sure that the rudder stops keep the reference from hitting its end of travel and that the rod doesn't get snagged by the cable wheel helps.. I had to grind off a little from one corner of the stop to keep it from hitting the rod and had to bend the rod a little to get it to not get hit as it moved through the range of motion..
P7160345.JPG
 
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DougM

.
Jul 24, 2005
2,192
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
The rudder position sensor on my Beneteau323 is mounted in the inverted position. I have had no problems with it. The only change during installation was to reverse the wire attachments to the course computer, which fools the computer into thinking the sensor is upright and typical left is right, and right is left. Ball and socket connection to the rudder quadrant has never become disconnected.
 
Jul 23, 2009
504
Beneteau 31 Oceanis Grand Lake, Oklahoma
A couple of pictures would help us answer your questions.
On my Beneteau F285 the sensor itself was upside down and I never had a problem with it.
What exactly is coming loose?
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I have a 2006 B323 and HAD THE SAME PROBLEM, ALTHOUGH I don't think it happened as frequently as you guys. My ball and socket came apart when I would HARD over the wheel- all the way to the "stops". The mechanism was going too far over. There is a tapered rubber stopper to prevent this, but was not doing it well enough. My solution was to get a couple longer bolts that fit through the tapered bumpers and into the quadrant. The OEM bumper, being tapered, meant just lowering it would increase it's effective diameter and saved me from trying to fit something else. Some (5/8 IIRC ) washers on top of the bumper made it bigger, and stopped the hard over excess quite nicely. I do not notice the wheel not turning as far as it use to, but I can see it on the rudder position indicator on the auto pilot display.
 
Jun 1, 2007
257
O'Day 322 Mt.Sinai
Mine is upside down and the rod end does not come off. I think making sure that the rudder stops keep the reference from hitting its end of travel and that the rod doesn't get snagged by the cable wheel helps.. I had to grind off a little from one corner of the stop to keep it from hitting the rod and had to bend the rod a little to get it to not get hit as it moved through the range of motion..
View attachment 182946
I see yours is inverted, but on top of the quadrant. Mine is below the quadrant. Not sure if yours is close enough to help keep it on. Other folks have commented about it hitting the stops and jarring it loose. Hmmmm
 
Jun 1, 2007
257
O'Day 322 Mt.Sinai
The rudder position sensor on my Beneteau323 is mounted in the inverted position. I have had no problems with it. The only change during installation was to reverse the wire attachments to the course computer, which fools the computer into thinking the sensor is upright and typical left is right, and right is left. Ball and socket connection to the rudder quadrant has never become disconnected.
Yea, I reversed the wires as well, but still can't keep the ball in the socket..
 
Jun 1, 2007
257
O'Day 322 Mt.Sinai
I have a 2006 B323 and HAD THE SAME PROBLEM, ALTHOUGH I don't think it happened as frequently as you guys. My ball and socket came apart when I would HARD over the wheel- all the way to the "stops". The mechanism was going too far over. There is a tapered rubber stopper to prevent this, but was not doing it well enough. My solution was to get a couple longer bolts that fit through the tapered bumpers and into the quadrant. The OEM bumper, being tapered, meant just lowering it would increase it's effective diameter and saved me from trying to fit something else. Some (5/8 IIRC ) washers on top of the bumper made it bigger, and stopped the hard over excess quite nicely. I do not notice the wheel not turning as far as it use to, but I can see it on the rudder position indicator on the auto pilot display.
Interesting. I'll have to get out there with a friend and have him turn it back and forth while I watch... Then again, my remote for the auto pilot may suffice if I can't get someone to help me!
 
Jun 1, 2007
257
O'Day 322 Mt.Sinai
Mick,
I mounted my Raymarine rudder reference upside down also. Having same problem. The ball end attached to the adjustable threaded rod pops out of the receptacle that is mounted to the steering quadrant. I have a removable inspection plate that allows for easy repairs; however, it is an aggravation that I would prefer not having to deal with. I mounted upside down, in the present location because I didn’t want to cut a large hole in the aft bulkhead to mount it right side up. There is no way gain access to the small space. Have you tried tweaking the length of the rod?
No I haven't, not sure if that'll help. From the other responses, I think I need to get down there while the wheel is being turned and see when it's dropping out.
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,989
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
A couple thoughts.

Can you fabricate a small bracket so that the ball socket has gravity working for it? This would be a C shaped bracket with the pin facing up.

Is there space to move the whole unit higher so that the ball socket faces down? The pin can be anywhere on the quadrant, the calibration process should teach the AP where it is and the range of movement.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
On the pic with the sensor that has the wire coming out of it , is the rod where the B&S come apart. My B323 has the sensor mounted to the floor under the cockpit floor, thus the arm movement is horizontal. I doubt the position really makes a difference unless the instructions say different.
. It may be on a raised block of plastic or wood to align it to the ball mount on top of the quardrant . In post 4 it looks like a short piece of rubber hose is mounted over a bolt. THAT probably needs to be a bigger diamter. Not much, maybe an 1/8 or 1/4 I'd think. You could wrap tape around the rubber until you get to the point where it don't hit the fan. I assume that one bumper stops the steering in BOTH directions. My B has two bumpers. I'll see if I can beat the heat and get a decent picture on Tuesday.
 
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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Can you fabricate a small bracket so that the ball socket has gravity working for it? This would be a C shaped bracket with the pin facing up.
The ball and socket will come apart if there is a push or pull force on it. Lind of like your shoulder separating. Trust me on that one. The more it falls apart, the more wear on the joint and will come apart even easier as time goes by.
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,989
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The ball and socket will come apart if there is a push or pull force on it. Lind of like your shoulder separating. Trust me on that one. The more it falls apart, the more wear on the joint and will come apart even easier as time goes by.
The B&G/Simrad sensor uses the same type of connection.

Understood, I have a different boat, however perphaps this photo of the rudder sensor will simulate other ideas. The sensor is connected to the tiller arm and not the quadrant. The sensor is on an aluminum bar added by the installer and hangs upside down. The connecting rod has ball connectors at each end.

IMG_1063 (1).jpeg
 
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Jul 23, 2009
504
Beneteau 31 Oceanis Grand Lake, Oklahoma
I forgot I still had some on my phone. I think most of the folks got the idea, but here's a few pics.
I requested the pictures mostly to figure out where in the world you were putting that loctite.
The picture is much clearer now, good luck!
 

DougM

.
Jul 24, 2005
2,192
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
A potentially dumb question:
Some comments have been centered around the overall stop to stop rudder travel being slightly excessive.
What about the idea that maybe the pushrod from the quadrant to the position sensor is bit too long/too short, pushing or pulling the ball out of the socket? If I recall, there is some threaded adjustability in the pushrod.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
A potentially dumb question:
Some comments have been centered around the overall stop to stop rudder travel being slightly excessive.
What about the idea that maybe the pushrod from the quadrant to the position sensor is bit too long/too short, pushing or pulling the ball out of the socket? If I recall, there is some threaded adjustability in the pushrod.
Go ahead and spend some time looking at it. You'll end up where I did a few years ago. I limited the hard over stops and it has not fallen apart since then. Many times fore that, though.