Raw water stink

[sailcruiser]

Hello head mistress,

I have a new to me boat with a much different setup than I've ever had for the head. It is a Parr 37010 electric head with raw water flushing. I am a Great Lakes sailor so it is a fresh water (of sorts) flush. After crawling around with damp rags checking hoses for odor, pumping out our tank etc I have determined it is the raw water that reeks to high heaven after a few days of sitting idle.

I have plans (not this year) to change it over to a fresh water (tank) flush to eliminate this issue for good.

My questions to the head mistress and forum members are this:
1. Should I put some sort of Y valve or T to leave myself the option of raw water flushing? If yes will I have the issue moving forward? If this is suggested are there drawings/diagrams anywhere of this setup?

2. Since we are only a few weeks from haul out for the winter is it ok for the system to close the sea cock and pump dry and pour in a couple gallons of potable water from a container and flush to eliminate this problem and leave the seacock closed? A neighbor leaves theirs open to keep it lubricated/wet and advised I do the same. I found recently after a storm we had more water in the bowl than when we left and this worried me. It does not appear to be black water coming back from the tank/pipes but I figured I would eliminate one thing at a time.

Thanks very much for any and all advice!
SC

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The answers to both your questions are...

1. Maybe. Spend some time reading the discussions on "intake water odor" in the HM forum to learn about the advantages of teeing your head intake line into the head sink drain line.

2. NO! If yours were a manual toilet, it would be ok to do that for the rest of the season, but yours is an electric toilet that has an impeller intake pump. If you run it with the thru-hull closed, dry friction heat will destroy the intake impeller.

However...Great Lakes water ain't that skanky, at least not in most places...so I suspect you--or the PO--may have pulled some animal or vegetable marine life into the head intake where it's died and is decaying. So try this:

Disconnect the head intake line from the thru-hull (it would prob'ly be a good idea to close the seacock first)...stick it into a bucket of clean water to which you've added a quart of distilled white vinegar. Flush the whole bucketful through the toilet...repeat. Reconnect the intake line. That SHOULD cure the problem. If you're in a marina that's shallow and teeming with animal and veggie life, you'll want to put a strainer on the intake line.

I found recently after a storm we had more water in the bowl than when we left and this worried me.

It should! It provided an excellent illustration--but without making you learn the hard way--of the reason to close all the seacocks before leaving the boat. Open thru-hulls when no one is aboard is the leading reason why boats sink in their slips.

If your toilet is the PAR brand, it's OLD...Jabsco hasn't made toilets with that brand name for more than 20 years. So I suspect that once you get a little more "settled" on your boat and learn your way around her, we'll have a bit talk about. And I'll be glad to help. Meanwhile, welcome aboard!

 

[sailcruiser]

1. Maybe. Spend some time reading the discussions on "intake water odor" in the HM forum to learn about the advantages of teeing your head intake line into the head sink drain line.

2. NO! If yours were a manual toilet, it would be ok to do that for the rest of the season, but yours is an electric toilet that has an impeller intake pump. If you run it with the thru-hull closed, dry friction heat will destroy the intake impeller.

However...Great Lakes water ain't that skanky, at least not in most places...so I suspect you--or the PO--may have pulled some animal or vegetable marine life into the head intake where it's died and is decaying. So try this:

Disconnect the head intake line from the thru-hull (it would prob'ly be a good idea to close the seacock first)...stick it into a bucket of clean water to which you've added a quart of distilled white vinegar. Flush the whole bucketful through the toilet...repeat. Reconnect the intake line. That SHOULD cure the problem. If you're in a marina that's shallow and teeming with animal and veggie life, you'll want to put a strainer on the intake line.

I found recently after a storm we had more water in the bowl than when we left and this worried me.

It should! It provided an excellent illustration--but without making you learn the hard way--of the reason to close all the seacocks before leaving the boat. Open thru-hulls when no one is aboard is the leading reason why boats sink in their slips.

If your toilet is the PAR brand, it's OLD...Jabsco hasn't made toilets with that brand name for more than 20 years. So I suspect that once you get a little more "settled" on your boat and learn your way around her, we'll have a bit talk about. And I'll be glad to help. Meanwhile, welcome aboard!

Thanks Head mistress Peggie . I'm in the process of this suggestion of bucket of vinegar and water. Our water is pretty nasty by northern Great Lakes standards. Just to make sure I am following you on the strainer, are you referring to the slotted type often seen on raw water cooled motors? I see many that are slotted. Is this what you are referring to or am I looking for something different? Zebra mussels are a big issue and seem to get into every crack and crevice possible.

Is old an issue on the Par toilet?

Thanks again!
SC

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Not a thru-hull strainer, an inline strainer

Like this one, made specifically for toilet intake lines:

http://www.raritaneng.com/products/accessories/in-line_strainer.html

 

[sailsail]

Re: Not a thru-hull strainer, an inline strainer

We stopped using 'outside' water a couple years ago, but we never got involved with changing the plumbing. We leave the intake line closed and keep a 1/2 gallon of tank water in the head to use for flushing . It is especially appreciated during the night when you don't hear the water pump if people would turn on the water

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Manual toilet or electric?

We stopped using 'outside' water a couple years ago, but we never got involved with changing the plumbing. We leave the intake line closed and keep a 1/2 gallon of tank water in the head to use for flushing . It is especially appreciated during the night when you don't hear the water pump if people would turn on the water

Keeping the intake thru-hull closed all the time isn't good for manual toilet pumps (see discussions about this in the Head Mistress forum)...it'll destroy the intake pump in a macerating electric toilet. Dry friction heat will "fry" the intake impeller first, then destroy the intake pump housing.

Sea water usually only stinks when it's left to sit and stagnate in the head intake line and pump...so all that's usually needed is a safe way to rinse it out before the boat sits. And there's a very simple inexpensive way to do that: tee the head intake line into the head sink drain line. For more details about to do this, read the discussions on this subject in the HM forum.

 

[sailcruiser]

Peggie in pricing these things they seem to be all over the place. I'm sure much of this is 'get what you pay for' but I was curious if you knew of this part from Jabsco:
http://www.twinsrecreation.com/Boat...t-Pump-Guard-Strainer-F34In-Hose_p_77067.html

For the life of me I can't see the $90 price tag difference even if I put BOAT in front of it. I haven't been back to measure our intake hose so I have no idea if this would work. What I do know if that seacock is staying closed (head unused) until we get one in place. I smelled like a salad for hours!

Thanks,
SC

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Pricing isn't all over the place...

There are several kinds and sizes of inline strainers, and a lot of 'em look alike. Raritan has 3 different ones, all different prices (their LIST prices shown): http://raritaneng.com/cgi-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi

So you need to read the specs carefully to know that the the $100 strainer has 1.5" inlet and outlet and is for use in engine raw water intakes, not head intakes.

Head intake lines need a strainer that has 3/4" inlet/outlet and is made specifically for head intake lines. Most of those are in the same price ballpark. Buy the Jabsco...it's cheap, but it's just a strainer, not a part for the shuttle. Mount it near the thru-hull, above the waterline.

 

[sailcruiser]

There are several kinds and sizes of inline strainers, and a lot of 'em look alike. Raritan has 3 different ones, all different prices (their LIST prices shown): http://raritaneng.com/cgi-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi

So you need to read the specs carefully to know that the the $100 strainer has 1.5" inlet and outlet and is for use in engine raw water intakes, not head intakes.

Head intake lines need a strainer that has 3/4" inlet/outlet and is made specifically for head intake lines. Most of those are in the same price ballpark. Buy the Jabsco...it's cheap, but it's just a strainer, not a part for the shuttle. Mount it near the thru-hull, above the waterline.

Thank you ma'am. I do think I may order the Raritan for the diesel. Something tells me it's a good idea after this head exercise. Thanks again! SC

 

[sailcruiser]

Head intake lines need a strainer that has 3/4" inlet/outlet and is made specifically for head intake lines. Most of those are in the same price ballpark. Buy the Jabsco...it's cheap, but it's just a strainer, not a part for the shuttle. Mount it near the thru-hull, above the waterline.

Hi Peggie, this raw water strainer is on the project list for this weekend. I'm doing my normal read up looking for caveats. One thing that hasn't been stated anywhere is how this thing likes to sit. (see link above for photo). I assume it wants to hang on it's mounting bracket with the clear filter area pointing down so solids sink but assuming has stung me in the past. Looking at others like the Raritan And Groco the filter portion is down. I'm hoping you have some idea because jabsco is of no help so far. Thx! SC

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Solids???

I assume it wants to hang on it's mounting bracket with the clear filter area pointing down so solids sink...

You're gonna install it in the head INTAKE...there shouldn't be any solids except maybe a little fine vegetation. The strainer SHOULD keep anything any bigger from getting into it...

Btw...have you read the installation instructions yet? That might offer some help.

 

[sailcruiser]

I assume it wants to hang on it's mounting bracket with the clear filter area pointing down so solids sink...

You're gonna install it in the head INTAKE...there shouldn't be any solids except maybe a little fine vegetation. The strainer SHOULD keep anything any bigger from getting into it...

Btw...have you read the installation instructions yet? That might offer some help.

I agree. Perhaps I wasn't clear.it will be going close to the intake seacock, yes I read the 6 sentence instructions a good 50 times, read sections of 4 books from don casey and Nigel Calder and nothing makes this simple issue clear. To further muddy he waters Jamestown distributors carries this part and says it doesn't need to be mounted which disagrees with everything else. The part can't be found on Jabsco's website (itt controls) for any clarification either. I emailed the company yesterday as well.

Hence my frustrated late night post. SC

 

[Stu Jackson]

sc, WADR, it really IS a simple issue.

1. Horizontal - when you open it, the inner screen stays pretty much in place, but water will leak out.

2. Vertical - a) upside down: makes little sense since when you open it the screen will fall out and you'll leak water
b) housing at top, basket and bowl underneath: little or no water drops out, screen stays inisde the bowl, less chance of losing the O ring.

The only other position I can think of is diagonal!

C'mon, this is really not that hard.

BTW, my engine raw water strainer is horizontal and is mounted right on top of the seacock. I don't like, but it came with my boat and has been working there for 25 years.

Good luck.

 

[sailcruiser]

sc, WADR, it really IS a simple issue.

1. Horizontal - when you open it, the inner screen stays pretty much in place, but water will leak out.

2. Vertical - a) upside down: makes little sense since when you open it the screen will fall out and you'll leak water
b) housing at top, basket and bowl underneath: little or no water drops out, screen stays inisde the bowl, less chance of losing the O ring.

The only other position I can think of is diagonal!

C'mon, this is really not that hard.

BTW, my engine raw water strainer is horizontal and is mounted right on top of the seacock. I don't like, but it came with my boat and has been working there for 25 years.

Good luck.

Stu this particular unit is designed differently than a Groco or Raritan what have he hose fittings on top and the bowl underneath. This one has fitting on bottom and bowl on top. (right side up on the packaging). It makes no sense to me for the bowl/filter to be facing up so I figured it may want to hang bowl down rather than sit bowl up. I realize it's a common sense thing to ME but I tend to find out after holes are drilled that the opposite was the design plan. This thing will be parallel to the cabin sole by the seacock. The bowl up or down has been the concern. It seems to be a one off design I don't see anywhere else and perhaps there is a good reason for that!

 

[Stu Jackson]

sc, got a link to it? Maybe someone here can help.

 

[sailcruiser]

sc, got a link to it? Maybe someone here can help.

Hi Stu here it is http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...&familyName=Jabsco+Pumpgard+In-Line+Strainers

I'm all ears. I hav a Groco for the engine quick is designed exactly opposite. SC

 

[thinwater]

Strainer bowls are nearly always desiged to hang down.

The reason is so that when the bowl is removed there is no risk of solids falling into the clean side piping. Same is true on most (not all) oil and fuel filters. Perhaps they did not say, as they consider this obvious.

In chemical process piping this matters, in this application, probably not. The reality is it doesn't even need a mounting, it is so light. if you do mount it, just don't mount the bowl up; you will get some solids falling on the clean side unless you are very lucky. Side mounting can be the most tricky, as gravity fights lining up the strainer when reassembling. Bottom on a horizontal run really is best.

 

[Stu Jackson]

sc, the link you sent says: This Strainer works in any position and can be remotely used in an area that is easily accessible. No mounting required, just cut intake hose and insert 3/4" hose and hose clamp.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your concerns.

 

[woodster]

just think of it as an inline filter much like the ones you put in gas or fuel lines...only with a way to service it ...unlike the inline fuel ones.....if you mount it with the bowl in the down position you have less chance of getting trash in the line when servicing it but it may be a little harder to service ....if they would just leave the mounting tabs off the black part you would only mount it spliced in the hose and that is how the fuel line filters work...

regards

woody

 

[sailcruiser]

Thanks everyone, I'm glad my assumptions weren't off. I hate drilling holes especially the wrong ones when I ass-u-me things are a particular way. I guess I can write this off to a goofy design. SC