Raritan PHII dry flush

[limbodog]

Hi all,
I replaced my head somewhere between a year or two ago. Put in a Raritan PHII P102 "Superflush" and a new hose. Has been problem free up until last week. I would occasionally flush some vinegar, and I routinely flushed with fresh water. Occasionally the bowl would refill with backflow, but that usually just took care of itself when I flushed again, so I assume just some detritus.
But a week and a half ago, the pump just stopped working. I was worried tank was filled so I waited until I could get pumped out (Marina does it, and it's on a 1 day a week schedule). Tried again, no joy. Checked the hose at the tank end, no sign of a clog or any calcium deposits. Plan B was to use a model 1A old school toilet plunger. Put the pump in open mode (all the way up) and plunged, and that did what I'd hoped. I could hear the tank um... tanking, and the bowl emptied as much as a plunger can do. But now I'm sitting here wondering what could be wrong with the pump.
Moreover, since I'm assuming I'll need to take my pump apart to do anything to it, how the heck does one empty out the last of it without making an unholy mess in my head? Just a large amount of rags and a prayer? There's got to be about 2 gallons of the devil's own blackwater fermenting in the hose.

Help?

 

[Tally Ho]

Well, it could have been a plug in the hose to the tank…and using the old school plunger pushed it out and now the hose is clear…and the pump can pump….

Or maybe you need to service for PHII. Lubricate the pump is the first thing that comes to mind…which I think can be done with out making contact with the devils brew sitting in the bowl.

IIRC, you are a liveaboard, so I assume your head gets more than it’s fare share of work…

I am sure Peggy will provide some solid guidance…and I am sure it will include maintenance of the pump

Greg

 

[jssailem]

Or maybe you need to service for PHII. Lubricate the pump is the first thing that comes to mind…which I think can be done with out making contact with the devils brew sitting in the bowl.

This is an annual activity. Easy for folks that commission their boat each year, a need to put on the calendar for a live-aboard.

Peggie's book tells all the story.

You have relied on the Pump Guy to swing by and such the effluent from your tank... Have you stood by and monitored the process?

I know that when I such the goodies from the tank it takes several repeats, with the addition of fresh water, to get the maximum removal. Perhaps you might take the boat to the pump out for a careful flush and remove process before you go playing with your PHII and the hoses.

There is a "Joker Valve" that makes the whole pump thing function. If that valve gets torn/worn out/clogged then the function of pumping your effluent from the bowl to the waste tank is compromised.

What ever you do moving some clean water through the system to the waste tank and then sucking it out will make the experience of solving your problem more pleasant.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You only THINK your toilet is a PHII ?? I need to KNOW what it is before offering any advice other than, based on the symptoms you describe, there's a good chance the problem isn't in the toilet (which doesn't rule out other problems created by failure to maintain it) but is a blocked tank vent that's pressurized the system, creating back pressure that's preventing bowl contents from going anywhere.

The manual that came with the toilet IDs it. If you didn't keep it post a picture of the pump looking down at it. I can ID it from that.

--Peggie

 

[limbodog]

You only THINK your toilet is a PHII ??

--Peggie

Hi Peggie,
It's a P102 "Superflush".

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

That is the current version of the PH II. We can discuss any problems your failure to maintain it may have caused after we solve your immediate problem. You've said the "pumpout guy" has been there, but that doesn't mean he was able to empty the tank--which he would not have been able to do if the tank vent is blocked. So before taking anything apart, you need to make sure the vent is open.

All tank vents have two main functions: to provide an escape for air displaced by incoming contents and provide a source of air to replace contents as they're pulled out. When air displaced by incoming waste cannot escape out the vent the tank becomes pressurized, creating increasing back pressure that prevents the toilet from flushing.

Without a source of air to replace contents as they're being sucked out of the tank, the pump will pull a vacuum that'll prevent it from pulling out more than a gallon or two. A particularly strong pumpout can even implode a tank.

When air displaced by incoming waste cannot escape out the vent the tank becomes pressurized, creating increasing back pressure that prevents the toilet from flushing.

Do NOT use the toilet again or try to pump out or dump the tank until you've cleared the vent.

The two most common locations for a vent blockage are the vent thru-hull and the other end of the vent line--that end of the hose and the vent fitting on the tank. Start by cleaning out the thru-hull...use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works.
If that doesn't result in a spew out the vent, you'll need to relieve the pressure before removing the vent line from the tank to clean them out...so open the deck pumpout fitting VERY CAREFULLY with a hose at the ready. Be sure you're UPwind of it! Scrape out that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank...reconnect the vent line.

If there's a filter in the vent line, remove it...once a filter gets wet--which can happen when a tank is overfilled or even due to heeling--the charcoal swells and blocks the vent...one of the reasons why vent filters aren't recommended for use on most sailboats.

If clearing the vent line doesn't solve the problem, we can address how to remove the toilet discharge line from the toilet or the tank without making a mess. And then discuss the necessary regular maintenance that all manual toilets need.

--Peggie

p.s. Have you had any guests aboard who might have flushed a wet wipe?

 

[limbodog]

Ok, the exciting update:
Back pressure isn't a problem, I'd already removed the outbound hose from the head to the tank at the tank end to check for a blockage there. But I checked the vent and could find no sign of blockage (Maybe I'll blow some compressed air through it to confirm... after carefully wrapping it in rags just in case).
And no recent guests who used the head either.

Since a plunger worked just fine, but the pump doesn't do much of anything, I'm still under the assumption that the pump is just leaking air or not closing all the way.

 

[justsomeguy]

Time for a tear-down of the pump, I think.
I know, eww. Rubber gloves, lotsa rags and a strong constitution will help.

 

[Stu Jackson]

On my PHII I once found the same issue. Before I tore it all apart, I real the manual. The first thing I did was to tighten the nut on the top of the pump housing where the shaft goes through, and lubricated the shaft. Problem solved.

 

[SFS]

Man, I love hearing from Stu, on any topic.

 

[limbodog]

On my PHII I once found the same issue. Before I tore it all apart, I real the manual. The first thing I did was to tighten the nut on the top of the pump housing where the shaft goes through, and lubricated the shaft. Problem solved.

Oh man, if that's all it takes I'm going to be a happy and less stinky person! (resisted urge to say I'm gonna be pumped)
Just waiting for the lubricant to arrive.

I'm still mildly annoyed with the Raritan directions. They say to flush with vinegar if you're using salt water to flush, and then follow the vinegar flush up with lubricant. The way I read it, it didn't sound like the lubricant was needed unless salt water was in teh system.

I will not make that mistake twice.

 

[Tally Ho]

I think lubricating the pump periodically is required maintenance…flushing a lubricant In the bowl may do something, but not much.

Greg

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

ust waiting for the lubricant to arrive.

What lubricant are you waiting to arrive_ You can pick up a tube of SuperLube teflon or silicone (I can't remember which it is), which is the grease Raritan recommends, from just about any Ace Hardware...and for a lot less than you can get anything from a marine store. You'll find directions for using it (about a 10 minute job once or twice a year) in my book.

I'd like to see the Raritan directions that say to flush with vinegar if you're using salt water to flush, and then follow the vinegar flush up with lubricant. A weekly dose of undiluted distilled white vinegar flushed all the way the to the holding tank will PREVENT sea water mineral buildup in the toilet discharge line...the vinegar should be followed by at least a quart of clean FRESH water after 45-60 minutes. Never leave vinegar sitting in the bowl 'cuz when soft rubber (joker valve) is allowed to sit and soak in vinegar, it swells and distorts. Done correctly, the toilet pump should only need lubrication once or twice a season.

--Peggie
And btw...if you don't already have a copy of my book, sbo.com is offering signed copies again this year for $18 + the price of a 1st class stamp.

 

[SFS]

And if you don't have a copy, you should correct that oversight immediately. Peggie has forgotten more about marine sanitation systems than most people will ever know. The book will pay its way many, many times over. Your boat will smell better too, which may matter to your significant other.

I'll put away my soapbox now, but you should really buy a copy.

Really.

Seriously.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Thanks for the "plug" for my book! Its title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.

--Peggie

 

[limbodog]

What lubricant are you waiting to arrive_

I'd like to see the Raritan directions that say to flush with vinegar if you're using salt water to flush, and then follow the vinegar flush up with lubricant.

I ordered some Super Lube. It's arrived now.

"To keep the pump operating smoothly, follow your monthly vinegar flush with a dose of oil."

Marine Toilet Maintenance Tips - Raritan Engineering Blog

Macerator pump experts share marine toilet maintenance tips

www.raritaneng.com

I had to find it again, I read that a year or two ago not long after installing and misinterpreted it.

And I've got my kindle copy of your book now. Thanks!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

That's the first I've ever even heard of the Raritan Blog...and I've never heard of anyone named "rusty" at in the 20+ years since I became a distributor for their sanitation equipment. Most of his instructions contradict almost everything the tech guys at Raritan taught me. (Btw...you DID get the thick SuperLube grease in a tube...not a liquid?)

--Peggie