raising the main single handed

[walt]

I have an old Mac 26S that I usually single hand and do the main sail setup and reefing at the mast. I have it set up this way since I trailer it and typically use it for 1 to 4 days so avoid complicated and time consuming setup (like running lines to the cockpit) and also I can generally do a better job at the mast for both setup and reefing. I like the main setup at the mast, don’t plan to change that.

I recently had to raise my main in a fairly good breeze single hand and did a poor job getting the sail halyard tight. This is after motoring out to an open area on the lake. I get the boat pointed into the wind and lock the tiller and then put up the main first.. boat drifts a little off the wind and then the main is hard to get up plus more risk of breaking slugs since things may be binding. I leave the outboard running so can re-point into the wind.. but its not really a good process.

I’m thinking about changing this process so that I put the jib up first and then get the boat in heave to. Then raise the main. When I reef the main single handed, this is what I do (heave to) so I think this should also work for setting up the main in the first place. What I’m worried about is that heave to leaves the boat at an angle to the wind and may make things difficult although I do this for reefing and it works fairly well.

I know some use an auto pilot to do this - and I may get an auto pilot but I am guessing that I wont even have it on board half the time - so don’t want to get dependent on this.

So how do you raise the main and do a good job of setup when single handed and in a good breeze - even white caps..

Anyone have a winch on the mast?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Walt;

On a no wind day, raise your main to see if it will raise all the way if the connection of the boom is fixed to the mast without the gooseneck being movable. If you have a fixed gooseneck with the main fully raised, then sir the problem may be with the encapsulated bolt rope that has stretched requiring the sail to be sent off to a sail loft for repairs.

Now a solution to your problem.. I would advise adding hardware to the boat so the main halyard is led aft to the cockpit for lowering and raising the mainsail. In addition for smaller boats there is a swivel cam cleat used for cleating and uncleating the mainsail halyard from the cockpit which is affixed to the back/side of the mast that you mjght want to look into.

 

[walt]

main raises fine with no wind, I have a fixed goose neck. If I had crew to keep the boat pointed into the wind with the outboard running, main sail would also raise fine in high winds. I know I can move the lines to the cockpit but dont plan to - hope I explained all that in my original post - a fast setup time (like under 30 minutes) is also very important to me since I have to do it fairly often.

Having the lines in the cockpit of course may be a good solution (and thanks..) but is not the topic Im hoping to discuss here. I know an auto tiller pilot will also make this much easier.. also not what Im hoping to discuss. Its process like below (which I have never tried) that I would like to find out about:

I’m thinking about changing this process so that I put the jib up first and then get the boat in heave to. Then raise the main. When I reef the main single handed, this is what I do (heave to) so I think this should also work for setting up the main in the first place. What I’m worried about is that heave to leaves the boat at an angle to the wind and may make things difficult although I do this for reefing and it works fairly well.

 

[Brian S]

Here is a picture I found on the interwebs of a Mac 26 using a swiveling cam cleat for the spinnaker halyard. http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/dougtut/MastBase.jpg I have done the same for my spinnaker halyard, but I don't seem to have any pics.

Here's the forum where the pic came from: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=127236

 

[Jackdaw]

I recently had to raise my main in a fairly good breeze single hand and did a poor job getting the sail halyard tight. This is after motoring out to an open area on the lake. I get the boat pointed into the wind and lock the tiller and then put up the main first.. boat drifts a little off the wind and then the main is hard to get up plus more risk of breaking slugs since things may be binding. I leave the outboard running so can re-point into the wind.. but its not really a good process.
?

Remember it's not the boat being pointed absolutely nose to wind that matters, it's that the sail and boom are dead down wind of the mast that matters. When they are not is what causes the pressure. So, let it weathervane. Before starting, open your mainsheet and pull a ton of it through the blocks and let it hang loose. Now as you hoist, if the boat falls off 5-25 degrees, the boom will vane to the leeward side and keep the pressure off.

There ARE limits to have far that will work... too far and the slugs will still bind. But it gives you a lot of angle before that point.

 

[Brian S]

Further to what Jackdaw advises, you should always loosen the mainsheet and the vang (if you have one) before you hoist the main, because if you do not, your leech can become tight before the luff gets tight, which is very bad sail trim. You want the luff tight, and the leech loose, so that you are able to set your twist once you get sailing. Since you have a fixed gooseneck, you will probably have to sweat the main halyard to get the luff bolt rope to stretch enough for proper luff tension.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Walt;

You may still want to consider the swivel camcleat as an option for leaving the line attached if possible for the main halyard that would be attached to the mast. I was well versed and well known for trying to make boats easy to be trailerable by one person with time an important factor as it use to take me 15 minutes in my prime to set up, in the water, parked , and ready to sail on a Hunter 26/260.

 

[jwing]

I'm not sure if you are doing this or not:

Keep the outboard motor on (you said you do this) and in gear (not clear if you do this). Lock the motor to point straight ahead. Lock the tiller (as you do). Loosen the sheets (as Jackdraw describes). Raise the main quickly.

 

[dlandersson]

I have a MRS on my X, thought about selling your S?

 

[Benny17441]

Jackdaw is on the mark. Let the boom loose to travel and it will seek on its own to point into the wind. One thing I do is to gain some momentum and then shift to neutral and then go forward. As the boat tracks forward it does maintain a close enough course for the time it takes to raise the main. The heavier the boat the truer and longer it will track. You can put a winch on the mast but I do not think is necessary for your boat unless you are running lines inside the mast. For an outside halyard just stretch your arms in a standing position and grab the line, then bend your knees and let your upper body weigh pull down on it. Repeat until you can pull no more and by then it should be tight. I have seen some jump up in the air to get full body weight but that should not be necessary for your boat. With the boom loose be always aware of its position and wind direction; once you reach the mast the safest place is to stand in front of it or just a little to the sides. You may also just let out a premeasured length of the mainsheet and cleat the line to limit the boom's travel in either direction. Practice makes perfect.

 

[walt]

the swivel camcleat is interesting.

I do pretty much all of what is suggested - loose main sheet, loose vang. I usually have the outboard running but not in gear.. I may have to try leaving it in gear.

In most winds, this all works just fine. As the wind picks up, sometimes you get the sail most of the way up, then have to run back to the outboard and get the boat straight into the wind again, relock tiller and do another iteration.

When the wind gets even higher - like you should be thinking about reefing the main or are having second thoughts about even sailing, the process gets a little crazier and might take more iterations of getting the boat pointed into the wind, then go forward and tighten the main halyard, repeat. the higher the wind, the less time you have before things bind again.

This just got me wondering if I should just put up the jib first (hank on but easy in high winds), get the boat in heave to - then let the main sheet way out (actually it already has to be out to get into heave to), etc.. then hopefully much more relaxed raise the main either full or reefed depending.. This is how I reef the main.. seems it would also make setting up the main easy???

 

[Brian S]

Walt, you say you put the outboard in neutral, then go forward. Me, no way. I keep it in gear, idling, while the tiller is locked with the Tiller Clutch. Unless it's really blowing, that keeps me headed to within 20º-30º of the wind, and the boom can swing freely. If the boom blows over too far, eg. I've fallen off the wind too much, then there is too much lateral force, even if the sail is slatting, to easily hoist. But if I were to put the motor in neutral, I have almost no time to maintain headway until the boat blows off.

Heck, sometimes I keep the motor in gear, lock the tiller, and go all over the boat, as long as I know I'm not going to run into anything in the next few minutes

One time, I had the sails set, tiller locked, and I was running all over the deck setting my tack line and sheets set up, in prep for launching the asym. Wound up heading kinda close to a fisherman, but I ducked him. He got all pissed at me, yelling that I was illegally not in control of my boat, and I was like, did I hit his boat? Did I snag his line? Did he even have to move? (No to all.) Sorry, dude, didn't mean to scare you, but shut the heck up.

 

[walt]

Hmmm.. keeping some forward motion with the motor would keep the rudder and centerboard working better - and probably would allow longer before the boat headed off. With the outboard in nuetral, the foils probably stall right away and you drift off faster.

But if the jib first heave to works.. the whole process would be a lot more relaxed.

 

[jwing]

You should try your idea of raising the jib first and report back. I've tried it without success on my boat. In fact, the difficulty of solo-raising the main was exacerbated by raising the jib first.

 

[walt]

that wont be until Feb.. and then I need to do this in high winds to see.

Is the problem that in heave to, the boat is already sitting at a high enough angle into the wind that the main sail/slugs bind? When I reef, Im lowering the sail so slightly different..

 

[Brian S]

Walt, I learned to sail on a Sunfish (as many of us did.) Then, in high school, I was given my first sloop, and leaky GP14. I remember one day my buddy and I hoisted the jib first and sailed out of the lagoon, reasoning that it would be easier to deal with in the limited confines of the lagoon. I also remember that hoisting the main was extra difficult, because we couldn't keep the boat head to wind as easily. That's when I decided it was always easier to hoist the main first, as it put the center of effort aft, and allowed the boat to weathervane head to wind far better than the COE of just a jib forward. (Maybe I also remember that day so well, because I have a picture of us sailing out that day )

On my O'day, I can heave-to. But I have to let the main out quite a bit, enough to relieve pressure, but not so much to slat. To me, the main would be out much farther than I would like in order to hoist it.

You should try heaving-to under jib alone, and then try hoisting the main, and make sure to report back to us your results. All I can say is that's not how I'd want to do it on my boat. I just don't think she'd like it much.

That being said, I admit I haven't every tried to sail with only the jib, either. The last couple of weekends of our season, we had Saturdays with NW gusts to 23knots, and Sundays with NW gusts over 25knots. I slogged through it on Saturday with a reef and jib. Then on Sunday, I'd think better of it. I looked out, and saw a guy zipping smartly along in his Victoria 18, under jib only. Which made me think I should head out under reefed main alone. But I didn't do it, which was probably smart, having heeled so much during one seriously lifting gust the day before, that I shipped water over the cockpit coaming. That's way beyond my occasional casual "washing the toe rails."

So, yes, should I try to see how the boat sails under jib alone? Yes, I should. But have I? Nope! The memory of that crazy lee helm on the GP14 lingers 40 year later! Ok, well, I did try to sail a Com-Pac 19 (masthead rig) with just the genoa once. Dang, that boat just blew off, and blew off almost to a semi-lee shore. Maybe I could have done it with different crew, but my crew just didn't understand how to set that genoa, or the timing required… And didn't remotely pick up any of that over the entire 2 years they owned that boat. Ugh, I hated sailing that boat most of the time...

 

[caguy]

Sorry Walt raising the jib first will only make it worse. Jackdaw is right loosening there mainsheet and vang will give you more time. You need to move quickly however. An autopilot with the OB engaged and slow speed as suggested is your best solution. If you are solo sailing an Auto pilot is one mod you will never regret.
As far as running your lines to the cockpit it does not really take that long at setup. Your one or two line reefing rig can be left on the on the boom along with the sail at teardown. I see a lot of guys reattaching their sails to the boom. Doing that by yourself can be a PITA. The real down side to running you lines to the cockpit are in the expense of replacing perfectly good halyards with longer ones. My M25 came that way and I loved it. If you sail in rough seas or places where the winds are unpredictable and high being able to do it all from the cockpit can't be beat.
I don't know what kind of topping lift you have, but the one on my old Mac25 had a pigtail that attached it to the backseat. That is really dangerous when trying to raise or lower your mainsail in even moderate winds. I replace mine with a line that ran to masthead and allowed the boom to swing,
I know you didn't ask for all this advice but it didn't cost you anything.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Walt,

When all is said-n-done, single handling a sailboat alone can be a chore at times.
What worked for me ,was installing my OTTO (autopilot). He has been my best crew-mate friend this past twenty five years. Remember, small boats react quicker.

He never questions me or, doesn't do what I ask. I no longer have to rush lifting my main nor dousing my headsail, he keeps me on the course I need to control. I can take care of maintenance items or a simple cleanup etc. If sailing with first-timers, they never get nervous as things are not rushed, he gives you that extra hand when needed.

The smaller the boat's tendencies, the more an autopilot is needed. Once you get used to him, I promise you, your sailing life will be much more stress-free. I only say this from my own pre-autopilot experience.

Things to think about with OTTO, he gives you freedom from behind the tiller. He takes away the rush factor, & he will hold course as needed thus, being your best FIRST mate.

Check one out, & you have my permission to refer to him as OTTO. Once installed, I promise you, you will beat yourself up for not installing him sooner.

CR

 

[shemandr]

Ask Santa for that autopilot. It's a safety issue. You sail solo a lot? In so many ways the autopilot will make it more safe and enjoyable.

 

[walt]

At this point, this thread may go towards discusing auto pilots and lines lead aft.. which Im well aware of. Thanks for discussion.. and if anyone has actually tried the heave to for raising the main (one poster did - didnt have good results) I would like to hear. I think different boats do different things in this condition so I will just have to try it in some warmer place..

Thanks again.. useful to me (and I will definately also try the motor in gear - the one thing I wasnt already doing).

Are auto pilots safe if you fall asleep while using one? (please DONT answer - I have actually worried about this if I had one )