Quick Question about Masthead Light
- Thread starter jBlaze3000
- Start date
Great discussion, now I'll need to go to the dock and check our 272 Oday... I configured properly; but, like the Hunters, I do not think I have a switch to eliminate the stern light! May need to apply a tri-color masthead (LED) for next season. 2 Switches: #1 under sail (Tri-Color), #2 under power (Bow RG and Stern White). Only need to determine anchor light but that may be above tri-color at top of mast (Switch #3)? Back to my ABC Course book from USPS? Peoblem: will the Lake Erie Crazys know what they see or will they think I'm just further away?
Oringally, Hunter used a two bulb with a wall seperating the two bulbs. When sailing alone without motor at night, many areas do not require a steaming light when under way. However, if under motor, the steaming light (180%) forward must be on. When at anchor, you must have a 360% light. Never figured why but I told my people the more lights shining the better it is particularily on inland lakes as most fishermen do not look up but straight ahead. This is one reason I always suggested a 360 light hanging off the boom when at anchor even way up in a cove.
Therefore, three wires was the standard for the original light with one being negative and the the two positive. Simply put, that light was for both steaming and anchor.
Therefore, three wires was the standard for the original light with one being negative and the the two positive. Simply put, that light was for both steaming and anchor.
My answer is about the red/green bow light and the stern light being wired to the same switch. It makes sense to me that they come on at the same time. I refer to them as running lights. When under way, whether by sail or motor, they must be on. When at anchor, just the all-around light should be on - according to the rules. In practice, I think it's best to have the all-around light and some other "here-I-am-don't-run-into-me" light. Dave's suggestion of hanging from the boom is a good one.
Kermit;
When the running light switch is turned on, both the bow and stern lights should be light up. Once I was called onto a boat where the owner had another technician wire the lights to a switch that was hard to find plus it turned on the depth finder only. I rewired accordingly.
When the running light switch is turned on, both the bow and stern lights should be light up. Once I was called onto a boat where the owner had another technician wire the lights to a switch that was hard to find plus it turned on the depth finder only. I rewired accordingly.
The three fold purpose of navigation lights is to alert other vessels to your presence, direction of travel and vessel type.
There is no confusion in our discussion regarding what lights a sailing vessel under sail only is supposed to display. There does seem to be some confusion regarding what lights that same vessel when under power can display.
For the purposes of this note, I will refer to the combination red and green bow light as "side lights". I will refer to a white light on the mast which faces forward only as a "mast head" light, even though that light may be fixed to the forward side of the mast below the very top of the mast. I will refer to the light at the top of the mast which shines 360 degrees around the horizon as the "360" light. The white, stern facing light is the "stern" light
Vessels under power of less than 39 feet (that's us) must display sidelights and either the white forward facing mast head light and white stern light, OR vessels may display a single white 360 light. Both arrangements are perfectly acceptable. The rules specify, the white forward facing light or the 360 light must be a minimum of at least 1meter above the colored sidelights. There is no maximum height limitation for the distance of the white mast head light or 360 white light above the side lights. See Rule 23 (c-d)(i) and Rules Annex Section 84.02 (d)
Thus, the 360 white light does double duty. It serves as an Anchor light and it can also serve as the white Navigation light when under power.
Which brings us to the stern light. It is used under power ONLY IF the forward facing masthead white light is being used. It cannot be used if one is under power displaying the 360 white light because, when seen from another vessel approaching from astern, that white over white light combination will confuse that navigator regarding both the size and direction of the mis-lighted vessel.
This is a long way of saying if one's boat does not have a forward facing white mast head light but does have a 360 degree white light at the top of the mast, that vessel is within the rules to power at night with the sidelights and 360 degree light illuminated, provided the white stern light is turned off. That's why an on/off switch in the stern light circuit is useful and to my mind measurably easier to install than is a forward facing mast head light.
Kind regards
Hugh Straub
There is no confusion in our discussion regarding what lights a sailing vessel under sail only is supposed to display. There does seem to be some confusion regarding what lights that same vessel when under power can display.
For the purposes of this note, I will refer to the combination red and green bow light as "side lights". I will refer to a white light on the mast which faces forward only as a "mast head" light, even though that light may be fixed to the forward side of the mast below the very top of the mast. I will refer to the light at the top of the mast which shines 360 degrees around the horizon as the "360" light. The white, stern facing light is the "stern" light
Vessels under power of less than 39 feet (that's us) must display sidelights and either the white forward facing mast head light and white stern light, OR vessels may display a single white 360 light. Both arrangements are perfectly acceptable. The rules specify, the white forward facing light or the 360 light must be a minimum of at least 1meter above the colored sidelights. There is no maximum height limitation for the distance of the white mast head light or 360 white light above the side lights. See Rule 23 (c-d)(i) and Rules Annex Section 84.02 (d)
Thus, the 360 white light does double duty. It serves as an Anchor light and it can also serve as the white Navigation light when under power.
Which brings us to the stern light. It is used under power ONLY IF the forward facing masthead white light is being used. It cannot be used if one is under power displaying the 360 white light because, when seen from another vessel approaching from astern, that white over white light combination will confuse that navigator regarding both the size and direction of the mis-lighted vessel.
This is a long way of saying if one's boat does not have a forward facing white mast head light but does have a 360 degree white light at the top of the mast, that vessel is within the rules to power at night with the sidelights and 360 degree light illuminated, provided the white stern light is turned off. That's why an on/off switch in the stern light circuit is useful and to my mind measurably easier to install than is a forward facing mast head light.
Kind regards
Hugh Straub
So Kermit's belief that the side lights and the stern light coming on together is correct does not meet the rules, unless you have a forward-facing masthead light. Which we don't (at least most of us). Since Hugh has practiced Admiralty law, I will defer to his judgment here, and intend to rewire the stern light to its own switch, so I can run at night with the sidelights and just the 360.
It is sort of disappointing that the Hunter factory config can't be used to properly satisfy the lighting regs.
It is sort of disappointing that the Hunter factory config can't be used to properly satisfy the lighting regs.
Well they did run 3 wires for ya.
Red and green on when under way
White stern (or rear masthead) on when under sail
white stern and forward steaming (or front and rear masthead) on when under power
anchor light (front and rear masthead) on when at anchor
I really can't see the advantage in the dual bulb masthead light. The wiring is the same except you need a switch for the stern light and a bit more wire to get to the top of the mast. You have the same number of bulbs burning in all cases except when at anchor and then you have twice the number of bulbs!! and I've found that the anchor light gets a lot more use than the running lights. It also requires the operator to actually think (not a bad thing in most cases) about the switch configuration. If you did not know what the rules are and turned on everything you would be presenting a light pattern for a vessel over 100' going in the opposite direction than you are actually going. FWIW
Red and green on when under way
White stern (or rear masthead) on when under sail
white stern and forward steaming (or front and rear masthead) on when under power
anchor light (front and rear masthead) on when at anchor
I really can't see the advantage in the dual bulb masthead light. The wiring is the same except you need a switch for the stern light and a bit more wire to get to the top of the mast. You have the same number of bulbs burning in all cases except when at anchor and then you have twice the number of bulbs!! and I've found that the anchor light gets a lot more use than the running lights. It also requires the operator to actually think (not a bad thing in most cases) about the switch configuration. If you did not know what the rules are and turned on everything you would be presenting a light pattern for a vessel over 100' going in the opposite direction than you are actually going. FWIW
*hanging my head in shame* However, for my boat, the wiring I assert is correct, is correct. And I agree that this has been an interesting thread. As much as I hate being wrong, I'm always glad to learn what I didn't know and adjust accordingly. (Read admit that I'm wrong.)
The quick and easy solution for the small hunters with only a 360' light is to remove the bulb from the stern light so it does not turn on with the side lights, when under power. (or duct tape 
)
The H260 does have a forward facing masthead light, so having the stern light switched with the side lights is OK. You are correct Kermit, as long as you state "for my boat".
)The H260 does have a forward facing masthead light, so having the stern light switched with the side lights is OK. You are correct Kermit, as long as you state "for my boat".
I am not sure of the question, maybe too many fumes from that moonshine of mine. The running lights and mast lights are to be separated. Kermit, the running lights are the bow and stern lights which should be on one switch and any lights for the mast lights separate. On the 260 there was a three way toggle switch for mast lights with the middle being in the off position. I am not sure which left or right but one was for the steaming light and the other for the anchor light. Still on inland lakes, I will always advise a lower 360 white light because most particularly the go fast bass boats at night never look up but do look straight going forward.
Sorry guys if I was not clear enough.
Sorry guys if I was not clear enough.
Ha...well based on the first handful of posts I decided that I was going to wire the rear facing light through the "Mast Light" switch on the fuse panel, then wire the forward facing light to the "Steaming Light" switch, with the mast serving as my ground. Then last night, as I was wiring in some phone chargers for the kids I noticed that the only thing wired to the "Steaming Light" switch was the depth sounder...go figure!
I'm heading to Lake Michigan this weekend for 10 days so I will probably take a day to figure out all the wiring.
Lot's of good info in this thread though. I'm enjoying reading it all...
I know this topic has been beaten already but I saw this picture tonight as I was reading for me this really helped!
Attachments
Could it be that jBlaze3000's boat originally had a combo steaming and downward directed deck light, or at one time it it was rewired for one and then at a later date the mid mast fixture was again changed out but the three wire cable left in place and using only switched with on off?
With a Steaming light/ deck light one would need a three way switch. Position 1 = off. Position 2 = Deck light. Position 3 = Steaming light. Therefor the three wires.
Or perhaps only one three wire cable with a pigtail ground was used in the mast. Yellow for the steamer light, white for the anchor light, black for a ground and at some point a pigtail black so the two lights share a common ground.
The picture is showing only one cable.
My Hunter has three wire cables coming out near the base. The first is the VHF wire, the second is a two wire cable for the anchor light and the third is a two wire cable for the steaming light. Both the steaming and the anchor light are switched separately at the panel as well as the navigation lights (bow and stern)
Just a thought.
With a Steaming light/ deck light one would need a three way switch. Position 1 = off. Position 2 = Deck light. Position 3 = Steaming light. Therefor the three wires.
Or perhaps only one three wire cable with a pigtail ground was used in the mast. Yellow for the steamer light, white for the anchor light, black for a ground and at some point a pigtail black so the two lights share a common ground.
The picture is showing only one cable.
My Hunter has three wire cables coming out near the base. The first is the VHF wire, the second is a two wire cable for the anchor light and the third is a two wire cable for the steaming light. Both the steaming and the anchor light are switched separately at the panel as well as the navigation lights (bow and stern)
Just a thought.
Mexico
Yes, if you sail in America you will need those lights if you sail at night. If you live in Mexico, just cut them all.Ah, American requirements. Sure, if you're going to be operating at night.
