Questions Regarding Electroscan and My Current State of Mystification

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I recently moved aboard a 1980 Cascade Highsides 42. I have ZERO experience with sailing or really anything mechanical at all--i am most comfortable (read: never really comfortable) in discussions pertaining to the Human Condition; i have ridden a bicycle most all my life and still barely trust that my minor repairs will work. The previous owner of the boat bought it from a bank who had repossessed it, so i have no real knowledge of the systems on the boat, save for what i am slowly piecing together. The toilet on board seems to be a manual pump flush using sea water intake, with the "dry" and "flush" knob--i believe a Raritan PHii? There also appears to be an inoperable Electroscan unit hooked up. The toilet smelled awful when i first moved aboard, and i have been able to knock that back a bit with Sudbury Toilet Conditioner (my local marine shop didn't have Raritan C.P., which i plan on ordering online). The piston connected to the pump handle in the manual flush toilet leaks, and i am wondering about best practices for addressing this--replace the whole pump or buy a rebuild kit? I also need help with understanding how to go about the rebuild/pump replacement (is there a valve i need to shut off to keep water from escaping when doing the repair/replacement?). I also wonder at thoughts about this apparent Electroscan that is onboard but not "working"--i see they are expensive, worth troubleshooting and trying to bring back online, if possible?

I live in southeast Alaska and will be utilizing this sailboat as a year-round, full-time liveaboard as primary function. I would like to eventually completely renovate the sailboat, and certainly plan on addressing the bathroom as an early project (would like ot completely reimagine it, perhaps put some tile down?), despite the context of my lack of money and skill.

I apologize for the length and potentially dullardly content of this post, and thank you all for any and all help!!

 

[sail sfbay]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new sailboat!! I have an Raritan Electroscan on my new Symbol powerboat. I had my system inspected and functional tested after I purchased the boat since I wanted to verify functionality. Unfortunately, I cannot use in the no-discharge waters I operate the boat in.

 

[jssailem]

Well hi.. Billy from Sitka.
Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have a great adventure ahead of you. Living full time on a boat sounds so exciting. Till it isn't. For sure it is a lot easier to sleep if the plumbing is not stinking up the boat.

Looking at your picture it looks to my untrained eye that you do have a Raritan manual head.

What concerned me is it looks like the hose has been wrapped. Is that to stop it from freezing or to hide up a little leak.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

"What concerned me is it looks like the hose has been wrapped. Is that to stop it from freezing or to hide up a little leak."

Thanks very much for your response, John. If i am honest (such difficulty we humans have, honesty) i am unsure as to the reasons for the taped hoses. I received zero info about the boat prior to my inhabitance. I have had some engine and fiberglass people look at it, with generally positive reports, but i've not had any "expert" give input on any other systems. Sitka is similar in climate to your PNW location---generally speaking it's between 20 and 60 degrees (Fahrenheit) here, year round. So freezing isn't usually too much of a concern.

 

[jssailem]

between 20 and 60 degrees

Well mostly correct. The air temp below 32 can lead to things freezing. I know a couple of things that react poorly to temps below 32.

In thinking about preparing your boat for year round living. My focus would be on

1. a super heating system,
2. Insulation to save all the heat produced,
3. Water supply that stays unfrozen,
4. Good plumbing system that will not freeze,
5. a way of emptying any holding tank in the deep of dark winter,
6. Electricity that can provide back up heat should the primary system die or be over taxed,
7. a way to prepare and cook meals.

There are plenty of more boat like things to think about but survival is the first on my list of priorities. Winter will come before you know it.

 

[shemandr]

Congrats and Welcome too. You should hang around. One of the posters on this forum is an authority on all matters of sanitation. I'm not. But I had an Electrosan and I did like it. I suspect it used a bit too much water, 'though. What I learned re heads on any of my boats is that leaking will cause un-holiness - even if it's a small leak. So if you suspect there is a leak it's best to get after it. But you'll need a plan because once you're into it, you're into it.

 

[jon hansen]

welcome. sailboating is easy. your going to have fun.

always loved biking as well.

 

[Tally Ho]

You can easily rebuild the manual Raritan toilet with a rebuild kit. unless something is broken inside the pump, the rebuild kit should be all you need. These are great manual pumps. Note that there was some sort of change during the life of the toilet, and you need to know if yours is the older design or the newer design…
These may help…


My tear down….




Greg

 

[Will Gilmore]

welcome. sailboating is easy. your going to have fun.

always loved biking as well.

Don't listen to Jon,
It's only easy for him. The rest of us have to struggle to do it.
You will, however, have fun. You'll also hate it.

Welcome to the forum and I look forward to reading all about your new adventures.

-Will

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

You can easily rebuild the manual Raritan toilet with a rebuild kit. unless something is broken inside the pump, the rebuild kit should be all you need. These are great manual pumps. Note that there was some sort of change during the life of the toilet, and you need to know if yours is the older design or the newer design…
These may help…
View attachment 194721View attachment 194722

My tear down….

View attachment 194723


Greg

r




Thanks very much Greg. Are there water valves i need to shut off prior to disassembling the pump? Am i to locate the intake and outlet seacocks and close them? What is the prep i need to do before i pull the pump to attempt the rebuild? Also, i have an Electrascan under the V-berth that seems evidently inoperable--i would need a vacuum-flush system in order to utilize the Electrascan (assuming it proves to actually function)?

 

[jssailem]

Are there water valves i need to shut off prior to disassembling the pump? Am i to locate the intake and outlet seacocks and close them? What is the prep i need to do before i pull the pump to attempt the rebuild?

Oh yes there are. You need to shut down the intake, (raw water from the open sea to the pump). You will want to run a 10 gallons of fresh water into the toilet and flush it to the holding tank before starting to disassemble the pump and lines. Yo will want to empty the holding tank (suck all of the effluent in the tank out) and run a lot of fresh water in then suck it out to rinse out the tank and all of the hoses. The more you clean first the less you gag when you start to disconnect EVERY THING and what ever remains in the hoses comes out. You want to wear rubber gloves, have a mask and lots of cheap disposable towels to wipe up and toss the towels in the plastic garbage bag.

When complete and the pump/hoses reconnected, be prepared to reenter the head and clean all the surfaces with lysol.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It's time I jumped in here....
First, your treatment device is not an ElectroScan, it's much earlier model--the LECTRASAN MC. The control panel is main difference...the ElectroScan has easy to read LEDs, you have to know what blinking lights--green, yellow, red, slow or fast mean to operate and maintain the LectraSan. I can send you the owners manual for it after I scan and save it ( The LS-MC has discontinued for so long that it's no longer available online), but it'll cost you more to restore it than it's worth.

Your toilet is indeed a Raritan PHII...if no hardware parts are cracked, a rebuild kit (about $60) should fix all the problems you described.There are two versions of the PHII marine toilet - those manufactured before June of 1992, and those manufactured after June, 1992. Each has its own unique repair kit. The earlier version, manufactured between August, 1981 and June, 1992 uses repair kit # PHRKII. The PHII toilets manufactured after June, 1992 use repair kit PHRKIIC. Although many of the parts are the same in both kits, some are not, so which kit to use for YOUR toilet definitely matters.
The age of your boat isn't much help...it's a 1980, Raritan introduced the PHII in the 1983. So it's definitely not the original toilet and prob'ly no way to know when it was installed...it's an expensive toilet--and btw, has consistently remained the top-rated manual toilet since Raritan introduced it), so may have been preceded by several less expensive toilets. So you'll have to provide its serial # to Raritan tech support (if you can't find it, they'll be able to tell you where it is) to find out which kit you need. Give 'em a call at 800-352-5630...I suggest you talk to Jerry at extension 236. I also recommend that you discuss the leaking piston rod with him. You may need a hardware part or two...and I think he'll agree that you should also replace the air valve...it's not in the kit, you can find it in the exploded drawing in the owners manual (Raritan has renamed it) Raritan SuperFlush Owners Manual along with a lot more you need to know about using and maintaining this toilet.

I also need help with understanding how to go about the rebuild/pump replacement (is there a valve i need to shut off to keep water from escaping when doing the repair/replacement?).[/QUOTE

Yes!! You don't need to worry about water escaping, you need to prevent sea water from coming IN! So you need to close the seacock on the flush water intake thru-hull before doing ANYthing else. The use a bucket to flush a couple of gallons of clean FRESH water through it. Next you'll remove the pump from the base to install the rebuild kit. Make careful note--'twould even be a good idea to take photos--of each part you remove to help you put the new one back oriented correctly.

That's enough for now...I'm sure you'll have questions for me and I'll be glad to answer all of 'em.

--Peggie

 

[Tally Ho]

Billy,

As John and Peggy said, yes, you need to close the water intake thruhull to make sure you don’t sink your boat!

once you do that, you can disassemble the pump. You will get some water out of it, but not too messy.

Here is a great video of how to rebuild the pump…

Greg

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

This is just tremendously helpful information--thank you all for taking the time to lend me assistance. Though i bob and sigh in sweet solitude, here in the belly of this befuddling boat, it is a kindness to know i am not alone.

I am curious, given the vague year of origin of my specific head/pump, might it not be a better idea to shell out the $200+/- for a brand new pump? If i were to do that, is there a specific pump i need to buy in order for it to fit properly with my existing head, or would something like this do: RARITAN PHII PUMP ASSEMBLY COMPLETE

Peggie (I have just 2 days ago ordered the newest edition of your book and look forward to its arrival), given the obsolescence of the LECTRASAN MC that is currently in (and seemingly inoperable) this boat, would you suggest i simply remove and discard it? I must admit that it doesn't smell all that great.

OK, thanks all!

 

[Tally Ho]

I would call Raritan and ask about the 2 models and if the pumps are interchangeable…I don’t know. Peggy might.

On the old Lectrasan, if I didn’t need the second head, I would remove it and reclaim the space. But if you want a second head, I would replace it with a new Raritan manual flush. Hoses are another source of odor and should be replaced.

Good luck.

Greg

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I am curious, given the vague year of origin of my specific head/pump, might it not be a better idea to shell out the $200+/- for a brand new pump? If i were to do that, is there a specific pump i need to buy in order for it to fit properly with my existing head, or would something like this do: RARITAN PHII PUMP ASSEMBLY COMPLETE

Replace the complete pump assembly (the PHII pump housing has never changed) if your budget can stand it ...that's what I'd do. It WILL fit your base, so all you'll have to remove and replace the bolts that attach it. This retailer has it for the best price: Boatersland Raritan PHII Complete Pump Assembly Without looking at a schematic of it, I'm not certain that the piston rod is included, so it may also be necessary to replace that too. So I still want you talk to Jerry in tech support at Raritan. Once you have it installed, the PHII will provide at least 20 years of reliable trouble-free service if you just keep it well lubricated, replace the joker valve at least annually--every 6 months if you live aboard and also work from "home" (read the chapter "Joker Valve 101" in my book for the reason why it's important to replace it that often) and put a rebuild kit in it (PHIIRKC) every 5-6 years.

You definitely need to replace all the hoses too...and Raritan SaniFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose is the best choice. It's proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant (now has a 10 yr warranty against it) and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking, which makes most re-hosing jobs a LOT easier! Defender has it for < $10/ft and also sells it by the foot Raritan Sani / Flex Sanitation Hose at Defender You'll need 1.5" for this toilet...same for the holding tank (if there is one) pumpout line You can get away with Shields or Trident #148 flex pvc (the cheapest hose) for toilet intake line (3/4").

Does the boat have a holding tank in addition to the defunct LectraSan? If not, you'll have to add one...If it does, is it plastic or metal? If metal, you'll want to replace it with a plastic tank 'cuz if it's not leaking already, urine is so corrosive that it will be soon. We can discuss that after you have a working toilet.

TallyHo said:

On the old Lectrasan, if I didn’t need the second head, I would remove it and reclaim the space. But if you want a second head, I would replace it with a new Raritan manual flush.

The LectraSan/ElectroScan is NOT a toilet, Greg....it's a USCG certified Type I MSD (treatment device) into which a toilet --any toilet--flushes and can be used instead of a holding tank in all US waters where the discharge of TREATED was is legal, so it cannot be replaced WITH a toilet! This is what all Raritan treatment devices of all ages look like: Raritan ElectroScan Promo Sheet You might also consider picking up a copy of my book 'cuz all this is explained in detail in it.

--Peggie

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I am unsure as to the presence of an existing holding tank--so far in my minimal explorations, i have been able to trace the hose from the head into the defunct LectraSan unit, with another hose exiting it and running to the outer hull wall of the boat--i'm thinking there isn't a holding tank, though i will need to get under the modified V-berth to further explore.

I am curious as to thoughts regarding holding tank vs. options for treating sewage so as to allow for legal dumping inside the 3-mile marker (there isn't an NDZ in any of the harbors here that i would live in). My thinking is that i will be living aboard full-time, and as i do not yet have a permanent slip (and the waiting list is most often years-long), i will be at the transient float for likely quite some time. This means that if i leave the float to go pump out my holding tank, i very well could lose my spot on the dock. I recognize that the solutions to treat sewage are significantly more expensive than a holding tank--are there any more affordable, yet still reliable and functional options for sewage treatment?

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

i guess i should have mentioned---thoughts on composting toilets? It seems this might be an appropriate, and low-cost solution, given that i live alone on the boat.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I recognize that the solutions to treat sewage are significantly more expensive than a holding tank--are there any more affordable, yet still reliable and functional options for sewage treatment?

Unfortunately not. Anything else would be lot more than either of the Raritan devices. If you decide to go that route, recommend that you go with the PuraSan Raritan PuraSan Promo Sheet and the "Installation, Operation and Maintenance Manual (aka "owners manual) for it Raritan PuraSan EX owners manual It doesn't need salt so it's easier to maintain, current draw is a lower can be used with any toilet and it works equally well in salt, brackish and fresh water.

Composting toilets--at least those that aren't essentially just a toilet seat on a kitty litter box-- aren't cheap either, nor are any of 'em maintenance free. I'll those who have 'em tell you about them.

--Peggie

 

[jssailem]

Composting toilets

Those that like them appear to be true believers and those that tried and rejected them have stories. Try to filter the responses as to the facts why then decide if you can live that way.

The PHII is simple in design, functional, and minimal in maintenance. Those features resonate with me. When I replace my toilet hoses in a year or two I’ll be using the Raritan San-Flex and improving the use of gravity to carry the effluent to the holding tank as illustrated in Peggie’s book. Wish I had the book before I dove in a addressed the plumbing. New to me boat, excited new owner syndrome. Oh well. It works for now and I can do better in the future.