Question on topping lift cleat

[Ward H]

I'm moving my topping lift cleat to the boom end. I would like to switch to a Harken 150 cam cleat with bulls eye fairlead. It has a working strength of 300 lbs.
Is that strong enough for a topping lift?
The main sheet is a 4 -1 setup so I figure I probably am not exerting more than 50 lbs of pull on the sheet so the pull on the topping lift shouldn't exceed 200 lbs. Plus, I normally attach the main halyard to the boom end when the boat is put away into its slip.

Or should I stay with the horn cleat?

Thanks

 

[higgs]

I would think 300 lbs is plenty. Topping lifts don't normally take a lot of load.

 

[capta]

Is there some reason why you wouldn't want the topping lift to be accessible all the time? By running it through a cheek block on the end of the boom and putting the cleat near the goose neck, you can adjust it any time you wish, without sheeting in.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Is there some reason why you wouldn't want the topping lift to be accessible all the time? By running it through a cheek block on the end of the boom and putting the cleat near the goose neck, you can adjust it any time you wish, without sheeting in.

Agree. Mine cleats at the mast. Impossible to adjust at boom end when broad off

 

[Ward H]

Is there some reason why you wouldn't want the topping lift to be accessible all the time? By running it through a cheek block on the end of the boom and putting the cleat near the goose neck, you can adjust it any time you wish, without sheeting in.

Good idea but that kind of negates the work I did running all lines aft to the cockpit as I would have to go forward every time I raise the main.

The cam cleat on the boom end will be a big improvement over the current horn cleat position, which is just used to support the boom when the main is down.

If I find I do want to use it as a sail trim tool, I will put it on the To Do list to run it forward and back to the cockpit.

Main reason I'm moving the cleat is I am planning for my new sail which was ordered with a loose foot and will have an out haul strap holding the clew to the boom. Looks like the current cleat position will interfere with the strap.
I need to be ready for the new sail as I will be going on a sailing vacation shortly after the new sail arrives so anything I can do now to prep for it I am doing.

 

[woodster]

mine had a cleat on the rear starboard side of the boom and i changed that with a cam cleat and fairlead mounted on the end of the boom ...i have a three part line revved up to two single blocks attached to the topping lift 1/8 cable to raise and lower the boom and cleat it where i want it to be i have end boom sheeting on a six part line with a ratchet block and cam cleat if this info helps

 

[Ward H]

Here is a better view of the problem. The out haul strap will go around the boom between the black stripe and the cheek block for the clew reef line. The cleat will be in the way.
Maybe just moving the cleat to between the end cap and stripe will work.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hi Ward,

There has been a little talk about the strap lately, and I understand that it can be an aid, but I've been sailing without that strap for the past 10 years with my loose-footed main and never even realized that I might want to install one. You'll be fine on vacation without it. You shouldn't have that much trouble adjusting your outhaul without it. Besides, I'm not exactly sure how your cleat will interfere, seeing that it is right about at the limit of your clew ... the slug should be a little forward. Why not attach the strap and see if your cleat does interfere before removing it?

As far as the load on the new Harken cam cleat, it shouldn't be a problem. Besides, it is only loaded when you hang the boom with sails down and it sounds like you move the main halyard over there anyway. I don't know why it would be preferable to move the cleat to the mast. I don't like climbing forward to release it and I'm certainly not adjusting it when I'm sailing. I guess some use it as a sail control in very light air ... I don't.

Capta, you have a 50' foot boat where there is plenty of working room forward at the mast. As Ward and I know, the rounded cabin top on a small cruiser is no place to be adjusting lines. Being able to work from the cockpit is far more safe.

 

[rardiH36]

Ward H:

A cam cleat is a good solution. A large cam cleat wil be strong enough for the purpose. And a cam cleat allows for quick and more precise adjustment. But it is possible that the line at some point might not be fully between the jaws and then could come free. In high winds the boom sometimes is shaking considerbly. And if the topping lift is adjusted slack, the line through the cam cleat might not have enough tension to remain engaged.

So after the cam cleat, think about installing a normal cleat to tie off the bitter end. Maybe use your existing cleat for this pupose?

This was a concern of mine when I did the cam-cleat mod for my topping lift attachment/adjustment at the boom end. Here are pictures of my current arrangement. I pull down on the line between the cam cleat's jaws on the starboard side of the boom, then route the line under the boom and tie off on the cleat mounted on the port side. You probably will think of something else!

 

[THECUSCUS]

Add a cheek block to your boom and keep the cleat. Bad use of a cam cleat, if it pops open when the sail is down, the boom could hit you on the head. My topping lift line is fed through the center of the cleat and has a stopper knot at the end, even if it would come uncleated, the knot will jam and keep the boom from falling. I also have a knot in the line for the preferred sail up position.

 

[Joe]

Add a cheek block to your boom and keep the cleat. Bad use of a cam cleat, if it pops open when the sail is down, the boom could hit you on the head. My topping lift line is fed through the center of the cleat and has a stopper knot at the end, even if it would come uncleated, the knot will jam and keep the boom from falling. I also have a knot in the line for the preferred sail up position.

Ward, if you re rig it this way you will remove the clutter around the clew. When I had a topping lift it was rigged in a similar way. The topping lift would terminate a foot or two above the boom with a small bullet block at the end. The control line is anchored to an eye strap on one side, run up through the TL block and back down to a cheek block on the other side.. similar to the "THECUSCUS" pic. Then mount a vee or clam cleat with fairlead a few feet in front of the cheek block. Running the cleat nearer the middle of the boom will enable you to adjust the TL from the cockpit in most instances, except when the boom is all the way out.

The control line can be smaller diameter... 5/16 or 1/4 " is more than enough... there will be no cumbersome block in the way such as you have it now. You can still tie off your halyard as usual.

The whole idea is to get that big block you have there now out of the way... A cam cleat takes up a lot of room and may not fit properly or look appropriate on a curved boom... but it you do really want it.. think about the smallest one, or get one of those nifty spinlock snap cleats. Instead, though, I would consider this type:

 

[Gunni]

If you strop the clew around the boom end, how do you plan to reef the sail? The clew will move forward - fouled by your cleat. Attaching clew to an outhaul slug should be fine.

 

[Allan12210]

....get one of those nifty spinlock snap cleats. Instead, though, I would consider this type:

Mine has served me quite well for years this way.

 

[All U Get]

So many different end caps on the booms it really frees up the options. Mine is loaded up with four turning blocks. One for each of the outhaul, two reefs, and the topping lift. Add the stack pack and there is a bit of clutter at that end.

Ward the block that looks to be rubbing the shackle at the end of the boom could be A problem. Some of the other comments show a cleaner set-up plus 3:1 advantage. I'm not a fan of metal on metal because they rattle and squeak when one drops the hook unless overly tightened. Sometimes it is unavoidable to have just one shackle, That's where a soft shackle would be a fine solution.

Capta, you have a 50' foot boat where there is plenty of working room forward at the mast. As Ward and I know, the rounded cabin top on a small cruiser is no place to be adjusting lines. Being able to work from the cockpit is far more safe.

Scott I'm just smiling because my wife just saw a mobile home with a bump out and thinks we could do that with the boat.

All U Get

 

[Ward H]

I went sailing today to chew on it some more while studying what I had, what I thought I wanted and what you guys suggested.
As far as the out haul strap vs out haul slug goes, here is what National Sail says about it:
"For all of our loose footed mainsails we supply an outhaul strap, which is an adjustable strap that goes through the clew and around the boom. This avoids the possibility of an outhaul slug breaking or pulling out of the boom track."
Now, I have no clue (HeHe) how it will work but I trusted this sailmaker enough to give them my order so I am trusting them with this. They have a good reputation, even spoken highly of by another sailmaker I considered dealing with.
Playing with the TL and touching the boom from various positions today, I think I will be OK with the TL cleat and out haul cleat at the end of the boom. Its not like I will be adjusting them continually so I can pull the boom in if needed. My boat is just not that big.
As for the cleat, it became clear the 150 cam cleat was too big for my boom and would be awkward to mount. That clam cleat suggested by Joe and used by Alan would fit better and has the built in fairlead which will capture an errant TL line with a stopper knot on the end, preventing the boom from falling.
The 3:1 tackle arrangement looks to be the ticket as most of you are using or suggesting that arrangement.
Running the TL down to a starboard mounted cheek block to turn it forward and putting the cleat forward looks like it will interfere with my clew reef line cheek block which turns it forward.
So, I think I am going to copy Alan's arrangement and put the clam cleat on the boom end. I'll move the horn cleat from it's current location back to between the black stripe and boom end. I'll use it as a safety tie off for the TL after it comes out of the clam cleat.
If that clam cleat works out well I can use one on the port side of the boom for the out haul line.
I did redo the out haul to a 3:1 arrangement which works better than what I had.

All of the suggestions are much appreciated!

 

[Brian S]

Ward, I deliberately rigged my topping life to 1) be adjustable 2) be easily adjustable.

I led it forward along the boom, I guess about 2/3rds of the way forward. I used 2 eye straps along the boom to hold the line, which is how the reefing line was rigged on my boat, so that it doesn't sag. Since I have a small boat, I used 3/16" double braid polyester, and an alloy fairlead clam cleat (as pictured previously.) I use no black plastic cam cleats, as they just don't hold up for me. I ran it forward along the boom, so that even on a beam reach, the cleat would not be out over the side of the cockpit, so I knew I could always reach it. This is important to me because I have no traveller, so I use the topping lift to reduce leech tension and allow the main to twist off in light air. Also, I use the topping lift to raise the boom up so I can stand back by the tiller when motoring, and also to allow for more cockpit living space. I also hold the end of the boom off to a stern quarter, but that's a different function than the TL, and would be accomplished setting a traveller far off to the side.

I know Jackdaw says god kills a kitten every time someone uses vang sheeting instead of rigging a real traveller, but it's what I have, and it's just a cruising boat