Question on an oil change M25 XP

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Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I'm am changing my oil and ran a vacuum pump into the dipstick after running the engine for 5 minutes to warm the oil. I can only get about 2 quarts of dirty oil out and now the pump spits. I've adjusted the tube to different depths and still air. Before I started the dipstick read between the full and low marks and the manual says 4.0-4.3 quarts.

Any suggestions?
 
Jan 1, 2008
89
Islander 36 Salem MA
You really have to run the diesel for a while to get the oil hot . If your on the hard it may take an hour because you can't put it under load . Now when you put the tube down the dipstick you have to estimate how far to go . If you run the tube to far down it could do a uturn in the oil pan ,thus the air . Then again are you sure there was 4 + quarts in the sump ?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,693
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Don't know if this helps but I just did the same thing today and it too spit after about 2 quarts. I ended up getting 4.5 qts out which is close to the entire volume by pumping slowly over a period of 30 minutes periodically readjusting the tube until I tried the smallest tube I had which worked much better by allowing some flexibility toward it's end.
It might also be the viscosity of the oil you are fighting since 5 minutes at idle isn't going to heat the oil much.
If I had this problem after going to the pumpout and back, I'm not surprised you have the same issue after only 5 min run time.

One other trick - mark the tube you insert by comparing it with the dipstick to ensure you are putting the pump tube to the proper level.
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Thanks, I'll keep trying in the morning.

i read in the thread "changing your oil on the hard" someone added a pint of kerosene and re-ran the engine to loosen up the sludge. Do you think that's a bad idea? This boat was not used from 2001 until this year. The PO said the oil was changed when I bought her last October. Now I'm thinking there could be a lot of sediment in the pan. It doesn't look to easy to drop either.
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Thanks, I'll keep trying in the morning.

i read in the thread "changing your oil on the hard" someone added a pint of kerosene and re-ran the engine to loosen up the sludge. Do you think that's a bad idea? This boat was not used from 2001 until this year. The PO said the oil was changed when I bought her last October. Now I'm thinking there could be a lot of sediment in the pan. It doesn't look to easy to drop either.
Bad, bad idea. You should never run your engine with any type of solvent such as kerosene. You defeat the purpose of having lubrication in the engine. Kerosene will clean the oil film off and it will be metal on metal in the pistons, bearings, etc. This is a good way to kill an engine.

Keep working on it. It is probably not sludge but oil that your tube is not reaching.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
What you really need..

Another option is to order the Oil Sump Drain Kit for your engine. Those through the dip stick devices rarely if ever get all the oil out and there have been more than a few who have gotten the tube stuck in the pan and snapped it off. The oil sump drain kit is a hose with a banjo bolt that replaces the oil pans drain plug. They really are a great feature & I believe all the newer Wsterbeke & Universal engines now come standard with them. Hansen Marine in Marblehead should have them in stock.

If you look at the orientation of the dip stick on the M-25 anything inserted into it will be about an inch or two off the bottom of the pan and entering horizontally. It will likely be a real challenge to get all the oil out using the dip stick hot or cold..

See part number 15 at this link (LINK)
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,693
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
If you have the space under the engine to install and access a drain plug, that's the way to go. Just make sure your engine has an existing plug as some mfgs don't even bother to install them on the sump.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
The tubes may collapse when the oil is warm. There are a couple of vaccum extractors like the Tempo and Moeller units. These use a semi rigid plastic tube rather than a vinyl material. These do not collapse when they are warm/hot.

The other factor is the engine is at an angle and may not accept as much oil as the engine is rated for. Maybe some other owners with a similar setup can let you know how much oil they are getting out of their engines.

Does you dip stick indicate that there is any oil remaining in the engine?

I suggest that you refill the engine the proper oil, rewarm it and drain it again. If nothing else this will help dilute and clean any sludge in the engine.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,352
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Why are you using the dipstick, don't you have what Maine Sail mentioned? I was under the impression that all M25s came with that hose. What do yo have?
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
What works for me

I had a problem with the tube that comes with most pump out fixtures either turning up on the end, or collapsing. What I did was get some harder tubing, and then I put a piece of coat hanger wire on it. Left the tube about 1/4" longer than the wire, and used heat shrink tubing to hold the two together. This way you are assured that the tube doesn't collapse and you can stick it all the way to the bottom without it curling up on the end. But if you have a drain plug on the pan, not an option with Yanmars, then by all means use it. You can permanently attach a small dedicated pump, and end all your problems.
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Stu,

you are right. I do have what Maine Sail describes. There is a rubber hose that wraps up towards the aft side of the dip stick with a brass hex nut on it. That sure makes life easier. Is this a Catalina or Weserbeke install? Thank you everyone! My first of many I hope.

I added more oil and am running the engine again to warm up the new oil. I will drain it one more time and fill it with Shell Rotella T SAE 30. The manual says 10W40 or 30. The autoparts store had Rotella in either SAE30 or SAE15W40. I bought the 30 weight.

It looks like the PO used 10W40 spec out for gasoline engines (Pennzoil). He probably did from the beginning. 1995 with 232 hours when I bought her. That shouldn't be a problem I hope?
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,352
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
It doesn't matter whether it's Catalina or Universal, the hose is there, so use it!:)

I've been using synthetic motor oil for the past five years. It's more expensive, but doesn't leave the goop that regular oil does, at least that's what's been reported. I also use Fram filters instead of the more expensive Universal filters. You could probably get Kubota filters less costly from the tractor manufacturer - do a Google search on Kubota and find a dealer near you. We found one in Livermore, 30 miles from here, and a $42 thermostat costs less than $20 from Kubota.

I built a connector from the oil drain hose to the hand pump I use for oil changes. See the picture.

Instead of Ron's electric pump (see below), I use a simple Par Jabsco hand pump.

From my colleague, Ron Hill who is a "master" C34 skipper and maintenance guru (this is from 1999 and he's still going strong):

Oil change. My C34 is going into its 12th season with almost 3000
hrs on the engine. I have NEVER used nor would I recommend using Herb's
method to change/drain the oil. The M25 engines, according to
Universal, have a crush washer in the bottom of the drain plug. As you
probably know, a crush washer is meant for a one time use. With the
attachment provided by Universal to suck out the oil, it's much less
messy and less apt to ever have the plug back itself out or cause a
leak. The crush washer and plug are similar to the oil drain plug on a
VW Beetle engine -- if you've ever owned one.
I've been meaning to write up a Mainsheet article on how I change oil.
First of all, I use an engine dip stick heater to warm up the oil,
rather than running the engine and circulating all the dirty oil back up
into the upper portions of the engine. I then use the ParJabsco (Porta
Quick 12volt Oil Changer) pump oil changer to suck the oil out. It will
also suck out transmission fluid as I do not recommend draining the
transmission fluid by removing the drain plug (steel threaded drain plug
going into threaded aluminum housing -- I think you can see the
potential problem). I bought my changer back when it was $75. I see
they are now $150. What is really nice is that you can put a 1 gallon
disposable jug inside the changer and have all of that black nasty oil
go into a jug, cap it, and take it to the recycle center without
dirtying up the oil changer. It's amazing, but this oil changer sucks
out 4 quarts of dirty oil I use chair tips to cap the ends of the
hoses so they don't leak. As far as removal of the oil filter, I
unscrew the oil filter until it is just loose. Then I drill a hole on
the out board topside of the filter and I mark the port side of the
filter with a marker. Then I take a medium size empty coffee can, hold
it under the filter, unscrew the filter so the mark is at the bottom and
then drill another hole in the top side of the filter. This allows all
the oil in the filter to drain into the coffee can. I previously had
stuffed a number of paper towels underneath the area where the filter
joins the engine. When the oil stops dripping from the filter, I
unscrew the filter, let it fall into the coffee can, clean up with the
paper towels, put the dirty paper towels in the coffee can, put the cap
on and dispose. There are no dirty gloves involved and no mess.
 

Attachments

Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Oil Sump Drain Hose Photo

Stu,

you are right. I do have what Maine Sail describes. There is a rubber hose that wraps up towards the aft side of the dip stick with a brass hex nut on it. That sure makes life easier. Is this a Catalina or Weserbeke install? Thank you everyone! My first of many I hope.

I added more oil and am running the engine again to warm up the new oil. I will drain it one more time and fill it with Shell Rotella T SAE 30. The manual says 10W40 or 30. The autoparts store had Rotella in either SAE30 or SAE15W40. I bought the 30 weight.
Your same engine, only newer, now recommends 15W-40 but SAE 30 is what they used to recommend. The only problem with straight 30 is that it's getting tough to find and a 15W-40 offers slightly easier cold weather starts.. When you change next time don't worry about using Rotella 15W-40. You can buy it right at Wal*Mart for less than most any auto parts store and they don't stock the straight 30 weight..

Below is a photo of an oil sump drain tube so others will know what to look for.

As long as the PO changed the oil regularly I would not worry too much about the use of non diesel rated oil. Just don't get in the habit of it.. You might consider sending your oil out for an oil analysis next time you change it for more piece of mind.


While there are many methods to prevent spilling the oil from the filter I find stuffing some bilge pad in there to work just fine:

The pads just absorb the oil and really work quite well. Look close and you'll see the oil sump drain tube connecting into the oil pan:

Don't forget to lube the oil filter gasket with some oil:
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
OK all done!

I got almost four quarts, changed the filter- checked for leaks. Next year will be much easier- thank you. Stu I made a double ended female 1/8" NPT fitting and threaded a plastic barb directly into the hand pump- no air leaks and it worked great.

Next question-

Do I need to change the fuel filters now or can I wait until spring? It has a Parker Racor filter another (looks like a small oil filter) and a third metal canister filter. I need to order these and am hoping spring time would be ok.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,352
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You can wait

'til spring for the fuel filters, the diesel fuel isn't going anywhere. The reason to change the oil is to avoid bad stuff (acid) inside the engine, the fuel's outside the engine.
 
B

bwehmer

Question on the sump drain kit

I have the sump drain kit as noted in the sump system diagram that was posted but I don't have the attachment adapter that screws into the drain hose. Does anyone know where this can be purchased?
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,813
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I believe it's a standard 1/8" NPT (national pipe thread) you can pick a female fitting at any plumbing supply, Lowes, Home Depot or your local hardware store.
 
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