Off the lake for several weeks, so I decided to really tear the boat apart and do some needed rewiring. New switch panel, move the battery up front, add bilge pump and bilge blower, re-route and replace some of the existing wiring runs. Here's the question: new panel (basic 6 switches and fuses, from West Marine) has a positive terminal for each switch, but on the negative side there is only one terminal; what is a good way (the right way) to tie all the negative wires together, protect that connection and make it practical to inspect or change? Previous owner had those little circle terminal ends, then had a bolt through them, and then did the big-ol-tape-ball thing. (That doesn't seem right, or too professional, or safe, does it?)
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Terminal block
Given that our Macs don't have a "real" ground or grounding plate, you are forced to bring all the negative leads back to a single "bus" to complete the circuits. I think the more professional way to do this, instead of taking them all to a stud or bolt like the factory does, would be to bring them all to a terminal block. In the same aisle with the breaker/fuse panels at WM, you can get the terminal blocks - just make sure you get one where all the terminals are on the same bus. You can get them with covers, or put the terminal block inside a watertight box, mounted somewhere that you can easily access it. I like this idea because you can then easily disconnect a single lead for future upgrades/replacements instead of having the whole thing apart. - AndyS
Given that our Macs don't have a "real" ground or grounding plate, you are forced to bring all the negative leads back to a single "bus" to complete the circuits. I think the more professional way to do this, instead of taking them all to a stud or bolt like the factory does, would be to bring them all to a terminal block. In the same aisle with the breaker/fuse panels at WM, you can get the terminal blocks - just make sure you get one where all the terminals are on the same bus. You can get them with covers, or put the terminal block inside a watertight box, mounted somewhere that you can easily access it. I like this idea because you can then easily disconnect a single lead for future upgrades/replacements instead of having the whole thing apart. - AndyS
Andy is right...
what you need is a 'primary ground bus', where all the ground wires come together and are tied to a single point. It should be as close as practical to the switch panel, to make termination easier. A good candidate for this would be a 'Blue Sea Systems' part number 2304, which is available at West Marine for around $10.
what you need is a 'primary ground bus', where all the ground wires come together and are tied to a single point. It should be as close as practical to the switch panel, to make termination easier. A good candidate for this would be a 'Blue Sea Systems' part number 2304, which is available at West Marine for around $10.
Thanks for the help.
I was in one of those places where you don't know what you're looking for, or what to ask for. I had planned to pick up a book on boat wiring before I began this little project, but didn't.
I was in one of those places where you don't know what you're looking for, or what to ask for. I had planned to pick up a book on boat wiring before I began this little project, but didn't.
I am laughing Marshall...
the main thing you have to worry about is sparking where there might be naughty fumes. If you really want to do a "professional" job get a book that has the ABYC specs. It's not hard to do, but does take some time. Any of the books out there will satisfy the need...I have several but the one I like the best is "Powerboater's Guide to Electrical Systems" by Ed Sherman. The weather here has sucked all summer, think I am going to pull the boat this weekend and do some work on it here at home. Hope next year is better for us northern guys.
the main thing you have to worry about is sparking where there might be naughty fumes. If you really want to do a "professional" job get a book that has the ABYC specs. It's not hard to do, but does take some time. Any of the books out there will satisfy the need...I have several but the one I like the best is "Powerboater's Guide to Electrical Systems" by Ed Sherman. The weather here has sucked all summer, think I am going to pull the boat this weekend and do some work on it here at home. Hope next year is better for us northern guys.
With you...
of course my friend, that is what this is all about! I only make fun of Republicans...and even then in jest.
of course my friend, that is what this is all about! I only make fun of Republicans...and even then in jest.
and by the way Marshall
I have been sailing for 30 years (and I'm not THAT old yet), but I have done so many boneheaded things it would require a book...a big book, to list them all...in fact, it would require a lot of pages just to mention the goofy things I've done in the past two weeks. Sailing is about learning just like everything else in a meaningful life.
I have been sailing for 30 years (and I'm not THAT old yet), but I have done so many boneheaded things it would require a book...a big book, to list them all...in fact, it would require a lot of pages just to mention the goofy things I've done in the past two weeks. Sailing is about learning just like everything else in a meaningful life.
Switchpanel Upgrade
I was about to replace the switchpanel that came with my 26D, but I decided to inprove it instead. At my local electronics supply store, I purchased a couple of terminal strips for less than $3 each. I removed all of the slide type connectors on the back of the standard switch panel, and replaced them with ring terminal ends or at least a well soldered joint. I bolted the terminal strip to the back of the stock switchpanel, so it fit back in the cutout in the galley. Underneath the sink, I have a fuse block and larger terminal strip for the other various accessories and power requirements. The switch panel is not the main electrical feed, it only carries the current for the lights and the power point. The larger terminal strip is the point where the battery power enters the buss. I figure 20 amps of current limit for all of the lights and the power point on the switch panel. One can purchase ring terminals without any insulation on them. Soldered well on the end of the correct gauge wire, and screwed to a terminal strip, you should not have a problem with loose wires, etc., and troubleshooting the system is much easier because you have access to the test points on the terminal strip. The idea is to do this one time so you don't have to come back to it. Do not use "stake-on" connectors, either get a real swage tool or solder the ends on. Use heat shrink tubing (very inexpensive) to cover any wires soldered together. Solder joints should be like that should be mechanically connected and then electrically connected with the solder. A good solder joint will always look shiny. When you select wire gauge, go with the larger size. 14 gauge for runs of less than 10-15 feet. I ran 12 gauge to my masthead light from the terminal strip under the sink. Wire does not cost that much, buy a good quality wire. You can get two conductor wire with two colors to simplify installation and keep polarity straight. If you have a good test meter, you can test the various systems to get an idea of current draw, and therefore estimate how long you can expect your batteries to last. Eventually, I will replace all of the wiring in this boat. There is some wiring that looks like speaker wire or wire from a household appliance in this boat. When you strip the wire for fresh connections, it shows corrosion even under the insulation. It has to go! Oh, yes, the "ganged ground terminal". Instead of whatever is there, use a terminal strip just for the return, if you wish. Here it helps to buy these little jumper clips for your terminal strip, but you can also fab up jumper wires to connect the grounds together. Good luck and make it look good John S
I was about to replace the switchpanel that came with my 26D, but I decided to inprove it instead. At my local electronics supply store, I purchased a couple of terminal strips for less than $3 each. I removed all of the slide type connectors on the back of the standard switch panel, and replaced them with ring terminal ends or at least a well soldered joint. I bolted the terminal strip to the back of the stock switchpanel, so it fit back in the cutout in the galley. Underneath the sink, I have a fuse block and larger terminal strip for the other various accessories and power requirements. The switch panel is not the main electrical feed, it only carries the current for the lights and the power point. The larger terminal strip is the point where the battery power enters the buss. I figure 20 amps of current limit for all of the lights and the power point on the switch panel. One can purchase ring terminals without any insulation on them. Soldered well on the end of the correct gauge wire, and screwed to a terminal strip, you should not have a problem with loose wires, etc., and troubleshooting the system is much easier because you have access to the test points on the terminal strip. The idea is to do this one time so you don't have to come back to it. Do not use "stake-on" connectors, either get a real swage tool or solder the ends on. Use heat shrink tubing (very inexpensive) to cover any wires soldered together. Solder joints should be like that should be mechanically connected and then electrically connected with the solder. A good solder joint will always look shiny. When you select wire gauge, go with the larger size. 14 gauge for runs of less than 10-15 feet. I ran 12 gauge to my masthead light from the terminal strip under the sink. Wire does not cost that much, buy a good quality wire. You can get two conductor wire with two colors to simplify installation and keep polarity straight. If you have a good test meter, you can test the various systems to get an idea of current draw, and therefore estimate how long you can expect your batteries to last. Eventually, I will replace all of the wiring in this boat. There is some wiring that looks like speaker wire or wire from a household appliance in this boat. When you strip the wire for fresh connections, it shows corrosion even under the insulation. It has to go! Oh, yes, the "ganged ground terminal". Instead of whatever is there, use a terminal strip just for the return, if you wish. Here it helps to buy these little jumper clips for your terminal strip, but you can also fab up jumper wires to connect the grounds together. Good luck and make it look good John S
Small detail, John...
A couple of points: 1. soldering is not a recommended or appropriate practice for boat wiring. First, soldering alone is not approved by the ABYC, and crimp and solder is also not a good idea, because it makes the wire less flexible at the terminal, which can lead to fatigue breakage. Far better to use an anti-corrosion gel on the wire and then crimp it with a controlled-cycle crimp tool with the appropriate die. As far as wire is concerned, use only approved MARINE GRADE wire. Anything less is a bad idea. Best place to get this, as far as I know, is at www.bestboatwire.com . As to selecting the proper guage wire, length of run is only one factor in the equation, you must also consider the current draw and then choose the proper wire guage, figuring for less than a 3% voltage drop to critical systems. If you check out the West Marine or Blue Sea Systems catalog, they both have good primers on properly calculating wire guage and approved marine wiring practices. Hope this helps, Jeff
A couple of points: 1. soldering is not a recommended or appropriate practice for boat wiring. First, soldering alone is not approved by the ABYC, and crimp and solder is also not a good idea, because it makes the wire less flexible at the terminal, which can lead to fatigue breakage. Far better to use an anti-corrosion gel on the wire and then crimp it with a controlled-cycle crimp tool with the appropriate die. As far as wire is concerned, use only approved MARINE GRADE wire. Anything less is a bad idea. Best place to get this, as far as I know, is at www.bestboatwire.com . As to selecting the proper guage wire, length of run is only one factor in the equation, you must also consider the current draw and then choose the proper wire guage, figuring for less than a 3% voltage drop to critical systems. If you check out the West Marine or Blue Sea Systems catalog, they both have good primers on properly calculating wire guage and approved marine wiring practices. Hope this helps, Jeff
Wiring and connectors
All right, I concur. Having said that, I think that there is a certain practicality to these Trailer boats. Please don't rip me up for this, but most of the people on this site do their own work. How many have calibrated swage tools? If you solder end rings on a wire with shrink tubing for strain relief and insulation, and tie up the harness, it will last. Do you have a lot of vibration on your sailboat? I have hardly any. Flexing at the terminal? I dont let the wires flex at the terminal, I tie them securely. Have you seen the wiring that Macgregor sends from the factory? My solder joints and ring terminal ends are far superior to the slide terminals that can fall off. I always laugh to think that someone might freak out if they opened up the back of ,say, their marine radio and saw SOLDERED joints and wires. Now let us look at wire. The wire I purchase from an electrical supply store may EXCEED the marine wire standards. Certainly better stuff than the stock Macgregor wire that worked for 15 years and more. So, what is necessary for a blue water sailboat that lives it's life in the marine enviorment, and what a TRAILER boat needs is for the owner/mechanic to decide. And as far as correct wire gauge selection, do not forget to include voltage and circuit type in your calculations as well. Other than that, I recommend you follow the West Marine wiring primer exactly and buy all your supplies from them. YMMV John S
All right, I concur. Having said that, I think that there is a certain practicality to these Trailer boats. Please don't rip me up for this, but most of the people on this site do their own work. How many have calibrated swage tools? If you solder end rings on a wire with shrink tubing for strain relief and insulation, and tie up the harness, it will last. Do you have a lot of vibration on your sailboat? I have hardly any. Flexing at the terminal? I dont let the wires flex at the terminal, I tie them securely. Have you seen the wiring that Macgregor sends from the factory? My solder joints and ring terminal ends are far superior to the slide terminals that can fall off. I always laugh to think that someone might freak out if they opened up the back of ,say, their marine radio and saw SOLDERED joints and wires. Now let us look at wire. The wire I purchase from an electrical supply store may EXCEED the marine wire standards. Certainly better stuff than the stock Macgregor wire that worked for 15 years and more. So, what is necessary for a blue water sailboat that lives it's life in the marine enviorment, and what a TRAILER boat needs is for the owner/mechanic to decide. And as far as correct wire gauge selection, do not forget to include voltage and circuit type in your calculations as well. Other than that, I recommend you follow the West Marine wiring primer exactly and buy all your supplies from them. YMMV John S
Sure John, I see what you mean...
just about ANYTHING would be better than the wiring that came from the factory, but I figured as long as I was going to all the trouble and expense of fully re-wiring my 26D, I might as well follow the code and use marine grade everything. Having been an electrician for over 20 years and being a licensed electrical contractor/engineer, I've grown quite accustomed to following the NEC (National Electrical Code), so it was easy for me to get into the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) wiring requirements, which state that solder shall not be used as a sole means of connection. Soldering is also illegal under the NEC. Sooo...you could first crimp and then solder, but it seems to me that a coating of anti-corrosion gel, a secure crimp and a bit of adhesive lined heat shrink is the preferred method, and fully compliant with both ABYC and NEC requirements. Yes, I understand what you mean about the lack of vibration on a sailboat, (if there was a vibration on my boat harsh enough to disturb the wiring, wiring would be the least of my worries!) but what about connections to an inboard motor? As far as the cost of the tools to do a proper crimp, you are quite right that they are expensive. The crimp tool I have for sizes #8-#2 costs about $400 new (got mine on E-bay for 85 bucks), but a controlled cycle tool for sizes #16-#10 can be had for under $100 new. Plain copper wire (stranded, of course) will indeed function in a marine environment, but why try to save a few bucks when approved marine grade wire is so easily available? Marine grade wire is designed specifically for the job, in that it is of fine strand (type 3) construction, tin plated, insulated with a compound that is resistant to oil, gas, fungus, water, etc. and carries the appropriate approvals from the C.G., U.L., etc. For all the trouble I went through routing, tying and terminating the stuff, there was no way I was going to save a few bucks using inferior materials. (BTW, not all marine grade wire is created equal, the 'Pacer Marine' wire carried by bestboatwire is, IMHO, of higher quality and easier to work with than the 'Ancor' brand carried by W.M. There is also a huge difference in price, with the 'Pacer' being about 1/3 the cost of the Ancor) Anyhow, as you said, the final decision is up to the owner, but I still think it's worth the time and money to do a first rate job, knowing that the wiring on my boat is, as we say in the trade, a 'hundred year job', meaning that the work is of such quality that it will never need replacement in my lifetime. I also feel that a fully compliant wiring job adds value to the boat when it comes time to sell, but that is another matter entirely. Feel free to do whatever you want, but I'm sticking to the code! Jeff
just about ANYTHING would be better than the wiring that came from the factory, but I figured as long as I was going to all the trouble and expense of fully re-wiring my 26D, I might as well follow the code and use marine grade everything. Having been an electrician for over 20 years and being a licensed electrical contractor/engineer, I've grown quite accustomed to following the NEC (National Electrical Code), so it was easy for me to get into the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) wiring requirements, which state that solder shall not be used as a sole means of connection. Soldering is also illegal under the NEC. Sooo...you could first crimp and then solder, but it seems to me that a coating of anti-corrosion gel, a secure crimp and a bit of adhesive lined heat shrink is the preferred method, and fully compliant with both ABYC and NEC requirements. Yes, I understand what you mean about the lack of vibration on a sailboat, (if there was a vibration on my boat harsh enough to disturb the wiring, wiring would be the least of my worries!) but what about connections to an inboard motor? As far as the cost of the tools to do a proper crimp, you are quite right that they are expensive. The crimp tool I have for sizes #8-#2 costs about $400 new (got mine on E-bay for 85 bucks), but a controlled cycle tool for sizes #16-#10 can be had for under $100 new. Plain copper wire (stranded, of course) will indeed function in a marine environment, but why try to save a few bucks when approved marine grade wire is so easily available? Marine grade wire is designed specifically for the job, in that it is of fine strand (type 3) construction, tin plated, insulated with a compound that is resistant to oil, gas, fungus, water, etc. and carries the appropriate approvals from the C.G., U.L., etc. For all the trouble I went through routing, tying and terminating the stuff, there was no way I was going to save a few bucks using inferior materials. (BTW, not all marine grade wire is created equal, the 'Pacer Marine' wire carried by bestboatwire is, IMHO, of higher quality and easier to work with than the 'Ancor' brand carried by W.M. There is also a huge difference in price, with the 'Pacer' being about 1/3 the cost of the Ancor) Anyhow, as you said, the final decision is up to the owner, but I still think it's worth the time and money to do a first rate job, knowing that the wiring on my boat is, as we say in the trade, a 'hundred year job', meaning that the work is of such quality that it will never need replacement in my lifetime. I also feel that a fully compliant wiring job adds value to the boat when it comes time to sell, but that is another matter entirely. Feel free to do whatever you want, but I'm sticking to the code! Jeff
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