Has anyone out there found themselves in a dangerous situation while cruising? Does anyone carry a firearm on board? What are the regulations in cruising to the Bahamas and Bermuda? Do you declare a weapon on board or hide it?
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Sailnet article
This was covered last week on Sailnet. Ultimately, the author decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Link below. --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
This was covered last week on Sailnet. Ultimately, the author decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Link below. --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
Nooooo..... not for the Holidays; pleeezzz!
This topic is almost as divisive as how to name one's dinghy and just as beaten to death on any of the cruising bulletin boards. So, Mark, welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. Now that you have learned how to left click your mouse, point it straight to the Google Groups search engine for hours and hours of uninterrupted bliss while reading old "guns on board" threads ;-)) Have fun! Flying Dutchman
This topic is almost as divisive as how to name one's dinghy and just as beaten to death on any of the cruising bulletin boards. So, Mark, welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. Now that you have learned how to left click your mouse, point it straight to the Google Groups search engine for hours and hours of uninterrupted bliss while reading old "guns on board" threads ;-)) Have fun! Flying Dutchman
constructive response or dont bother-Henk
Thanks Henk for such an intuitive response to a ligitamate question by someone who has not read all the articles and will soon be heading out cruising unfamiliar grounds. Sure am glad you cleared up that left mouse thing or I would really be stumped. I guess some of us dont spend the time you must behind that keyboard to be so informed. mark
Thanks Henk for such an intuitive response to a ligitamate question by someone who has not read all the articles and will soon be heading out cruising unfamiliar grounds. Sure am glad you cleared up that left mouse thing or I would really be stumped. I guess some of us dont spend the time you must behind that keyboard to be so informed. mark
If you have, be prepared to us, otherwise
If you have a firearm on board, be mentally prepared to use it, otherwise you have set the level of conflict to a level that you are not prepared to equal. Not good.
If you have a firearm on board, be mentally prepared to use it, otherwise you have set the level of conflict to a level that you are not prepared to equal. Not good.
Sorry Mark; here is the "constructive" version:
Your first question was: "Has anyone out there found themselves in a dangerous situation while cruising?" From spending a lot of time cruising (and some time behind the keyboard) I can safely say that it does happen but that it is fortunately rather unusual. Your second question was: "Does anyone carry a firearm on board?" Based on the same experiences I have to conclude that some cruisers do but most don't Third question: "What are the regulations in cruising to the Bahamas and Bermuda?" No personal experience. However, there are few if any countries in the world (excepth the USA) that will let you simply keep a gun aboard, unless you either have a local gun permit or it is locked away and the key given to local authorities. In fact, some countries (e.g. Australia) even consider your 12 or 25 gauge flare pistol an illegal weapon (although they don't actively enforce that law for foreign yachties until you try to buy a new set of flare cartridges). Final question: "Do you declare a weapon on board or hide it?" Most cruisers declare it and some hide it. Penalties for illegal weapons appear to range from "la mordida" (in Mexico) to "el morte" (in Malaysia). Hope this helps you enjoy your own peaceful Holidays. Flying Dutchman
Your first question was: "Has anyone out there found themselves in a dangerous situation while cruising?" From spending a lot of time cruising (and some time behind the keyboard) I can safely say that it does happen but that it is fortunately rather unusual. Your second question was: "Does anyone carry a firearm on board?" Based on the same experiences I have to conclude that some cruisers do but most don't Third question: "What are the regulations in cruising to the Bahamas and Bermuda?" No personal experience. However, there are few if any countries in the world (excepth the USA) that will let you simply keep a gun aboard, unless you either have a local gun permit or it is locked away and the key given to local authorities. In fact, some countries (e.g. Australia) even consider your 12 or 25 gauge flare pistol an illegal weapon (although they don't actively enforce that law for foreign yachties until you try to buy a new set of flare cartridges). Final question: "Do you declare a weapon on board or hide it?" Most cruisers declare it and some hide it. Penalties for illegal weapons appear to range from "la mordida" (in Mexico) to "el morte" (in Malaysia). Hope this helps you enjoy your own peaceful Holidays. Flying Dutchman
I agree with Henk - this discussion could get very
out of hand....But below is the link with a few short articles on it
out of hand....But below is the link with a few short articles on it
Been watchin' (too many) movies lately?
Sorry, couldn't resist. Sounds like a "dangerous situation" without any outside help.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Sounds like a "dangerous situation" without any outside help.
Legitimate, but scary. . .
question. The fact that you have to ask makes me wonder if I should just stay in Lake Erie. Peter Blake came up from below with a shotgun. Would they have killed him if he had not had a weapon? They did not harm his crew.
question. The fact that you have to ask makes me wonder if I should just stay in Lake Erie. Peter Blake came up from below with a shotgun. Would they have killed him if he had not had a weapon? They did not harm his crew.
Have Firearms - don't sail with 'em
Granted, I never face pirates. However, I would certainly carry one if going long distances in open water. Simply put, you are your own police anytime you are too far away for the police to respond. And like it or not, as long as their are disparities in peoples's income, there will be theives. That said, carrying a firearm is just that. Unless you have sufficient training and time behind the sights, your weapon is a liability rather than a security asset. You can also count out certain luxuries when you bring one aboard, such as consuming alcohol. I would start with the US coast guard website to review their regulations. Next, I would look really hard at the ports you plan to visit and call ahead. The sad fact is that in the end, if someone decides to pirate your ship, you are hosed either way. If you are not carrying a gun, you are at their mercy. If you are armed, you might be forced to shoot them and, of course, clear the whole matter up in the court of whatever country you happen to be near. This can be expensive, and you may end up in quite a jam. That's the broad view from what I've read and heard. Best Regards, Rob
Granted, I never face pirates. However, I would certainly carry one if going long distances in open water. Simply put, you are your own police anytime you are too far away for the police to respond. And like it or not, as long as their are disparities in peoples's income, there will be theives. That said, carrying a firearm is just that. Unless you have sufficient training and time behind the sights, your weapon is a liability rather than a security asset. You can also count out certain luxuries when you bring one aboard, such as consuming alcohol. I would start with the US coast guard website to review their regulations. Next, I would look really hard at the ports you plan to visit and call ahead. The sad fact is that in the end, if someone decides to pirate your ship, you are hosed either way. If you are not carrying a gun, you are at their mercy. If you are armed, you might be forced to shoot them and, of course, clear the whole matter up in the court of whatever country you happen to be near. This can be expensive, and you may end up in quite a jam. That's the broad view from what I've read and heard. Best Regards, Rob
Bang . . .
Most folks without training probably shouldn't handle firearms at all. On the other hand if cruisers always came up throwing lead there may be less of these instances like Seth's. And the term Pirates is too good for these people. They are really nothing more than common street thugs. Personally, I always carry a weapon. I've lived long enough to know there are very good and also very bad people in this world and whatever happens I want some input in the matter. The bottom line is it's a personal matter. If you feel you don't need a weapon, you don't. However we make a mistake when listening to advice like I heard on the news the other day. They were saying to survive a street attack, hand over your money and don't look the bad guy in the eye. All that does is embolden the bad guys. If some one demands this former Marine's wallet, car, boat, or whatever, their in for a fight for their lives . . . I refuse to count on the "Nanny State" to protect me and I refuse to be a victim. Also, don't be put off by those who groan because they have been "on the net" six months longer than you. Nick
Most folks without training probably shouldn't handle firearms at all. On the other hand if cruisers always came up throwing lead there may be less of these instances like Seth's. And the term Pirates is too good for these people. They are really nothing more than common street thugs. Personally, I always carry a weapon. I've lived long enough to know there are very good and also very bad people in this world and whatever happens I want some input in the matter. The bottom line is it's a personal matter. If you feel you don't need a weapon, you don't. However we make a mistake when listening to advice like I heard on the news the other day. They were saying to survive a street attack, hand over your money and don't look the bad guy in the eye. All that does is embolden the bad guys. If some one demands this former Marine's wallet, car, boat, or whatever, their in for a fight for their lives . . . I refuse to count on the "Nanny State" to protect me and I refuse to be a victim. Also, don't be put off by those who groan because they have been "on the net" six months longer than you. Nick
Shoot first answer no questions later
Yes , I carry firearms(Plural) and my advise is two fold. 1st pay close attention to the laws of all nations you plan to cruise to and abide by them . 2nd Shoot when you draw a weapon or bend over and take what you got comming. If there are any witnesses to what happened and why then your aim needs to be adjusted. This is not an issue about boats its the simple issue of do you want to live or die. I've seen more Pirates and cutthroated thieves in my own marina than Ill ever see on the water. But if I do see answer #2.
Yes , I carry firearms(Plural) and my advise is two fold. 1st pay close attention to the laws of all nations you plan to cruise to and abide by them . 2nd Shoot when you draw a weapon or bend over and take what you got comming. If there are any witnesses to what happened and why then your aim needs to be adjusted. This is not an issue about boats its the simple issue of do you want to live or die. I've seen more Pirates and cutthroated thieves in my own marina than Ill ever see on the water. But if I do see answer #2.
Less risk, more bother
I've never heard of a piracy incident on Lake Erie. The danger to life is more from bad seamanship coupled with bad weather. Face it, our coastal waters are well patrolled by the coast guard, and a bad guy almost has to give you enough warning to get below and call them. Not much of a chance for a getaway! Then there is the definite hassle taking a firearm through customs in Canada. I suppose there are other times when this comes into play. Finally, there is a higher chance of error handling any piece of hardware on a platform moving on three axes. Higher chance of error handling a firearm does not comfort me! David Lady Lillie
I've never heard of a piracy incident on Lake Erie. The danger to life is more from bad seamanship coupled with bad weather. Face it, our coastal waters are well patrolled by the coast guard, and a bad guy almost has to give you enough warning to get below and call them. Not much of a chance for a getaway! Then there is the definite hassle taking a firearm through customs in Canada. I suppose there are other times when this comes into play. Finally, there is a higher chance of error handling any piece of hardware on a platform moving on three axes. Higher chance of error handling a firearm does not comfort me! David Lady Lillie
Geez michael.....I am staying out of your marina
AND your sailing area.....I never have seen the need....I like the avoidance tactic the best.....whew....little scary
AND your sailing area.....I never have seen the need....I like the avoidance tactic the best.....whew....little scary
Wait till we get the bazookas and flame throwers..
This thread is just starting to warm up. In case you have never seen "guns on board" threads before (e.g. on usenet), please fasten your seat belts. (unless Phil decides to help it out of it's misery before that time, of course..........) Flying Dutchman
This thread is just starting to warm up. In case you have never seen "guns on board" threads before (e.g. on usenet), please fasten your seat belts. (unless Phil decides to help it out of it's misery before that time, of course..........) Flying Dutchman
12Ga Flare Gun Stinger Missel
Available now, be the frist in your marina to own one. Contact Michael
Available now, be the frist in your marina to own one. Contact Michael
Don't Give Him any Ideas
Jack, don't give Mike any new ideas. He must live in one hell of a Marina or watches too many Clint Eastwood movies. And for sure, you don't want to be one of the witnesses when he comes up shooting. Didn't help Peter Blake to come up shooting did it? Mike is right about one thing, if you confront someone with a gun, you better be prepared to use it, because the other moron now see's the stakes are raised. Since most cruisers don't carry weapons, seeing one with a weapon could startle them to a quick and unintended response.
Jack, don't give Mike any new ideas. He must live in one hell of a Marina or watches too many Clint Eastwood movies. And for sure, you don't want to be one of the witnesses when he comes up shooting. Didn't help Peter Blake to come up shooting did it? Mike is right about one thing, if you confront someone with a gun, you better be prepared to use it, because the other moron now see's the stakes are raised. Since most cruisers don't carry weapons, seeing one with a weapon could startle them to a quick and unintended response.
just a thought
just wondered how many of you have actually had someone threaten to shoot you? As in had someone pointing a weapon at you and making demands. I've experienced several incidences where the police have been unable to protect coworkers from individuals who have threatened bodily harm as well as threats to family members (as in my case) and nothing can be done.(its not a crime to threaten folks evedently, nor was threatened kidnapping in the case of a good friend of mine) as my father once said "you carry because you are scared" he did not say of what. i always presumed he meant death. but i've never seen him without a weapon, i dont carry as he does but i keep weapons at hand just in case. this is a serious SOCIAL topic with the most severe of PERSONAL outcomes. public policy of public safety does not apply to individual safety.a shortcoming that our politicians fail to recognize. a policeman friend voiced that everyone should have their guns taken away ... except for his! i believe this says it all. He did not feel safe. it comes down to antisocial personalties (that is criminals ) which have no rational thinking. these people dont feel pain, dont value life, and are simply predators on the ever predictable general public , and they thrive because of that predictability. im not saying whether we as sailors should carry weapons or not . but as a professional person who deals with these individuals as well as their victims i did want to clarify the issue a bit in terms of the real experience of the threat of loss of life. for those who have had this personal experience i appologize for the memories that have been brought up for each of you. for those that have not i hope that you see ,and maybe be able to empathize with, the real fear and sometimes real danger that many people face daily. unfortunately, it will not go away any too soon.
just wondered how many of you have actually had someone threaten to shoot you? As in had someone pointing a weapon at you and making demands. I've experienced several incidences where the police have been unable to protect coworkers from individuals who have threatened bodily harm as well as threats to family members (as in my case) and nothing can be done.(its not a crime to threaten folks evedently, nor was threatened kidnapping in the case of a good friend of mine) as my father once said "you carry because you are scared" he did not say of what. i always presumed he meant death. but i've never seen him without a weapon, i dont carry as he does but i keep weapons at hand just in case. this is a serious SOCIAL topic with the most severe of PERSONAL outcomes. public policy of public safety does not apply to individual safety.a shortcoming that our politicians fail to recognize. a policeman friend voiced that everyone should have their guns taken away ... except for his! i believe this says it all. He did not feel safe. it comes down to antisocial personalties (that is criminals ) which have no rational thinking. these people dont feel pain, dont value life, and are simply predators on the ever predictable general public , and they thrive because of that predictability. im not saying whether we as sailors should carry weapons or not . but as a professional person who deals with these individuals as well as their victims i did want to clarify the issue a bit in terms of the real experience of the threat of loss of life. for those who have had this personal experience i appologize for the memories that have been brought up for each of you. for those that have not i hope that you see ,and maybe be able to empathize with, the real fear and sometimes real danger that many people face daily. unfortunately, it will not go away any too soon.
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