ProFurl B29S Furler - Need Some Advice on Upper Swivel

[CapitalistSailor]

I have a ProFurl B29S furler that was original to my 2000 Beneteau 311. I am the second owner. I bought the boat a half dozen years ago and had a terrible time with the upper swivel in the furler until last year. Previously I had to crank the jib all way up with a winch, and never could get the luff tight, and had to use all my weight to pull the jib down, not a good situation and potentially dangerous. Last year with technical support from ProFurl, I figured out that the part of the upper swivel that keeps the furler aligned with the luff groove had become a little crooked and was twisted a little across the luff groove and was binding. I was able to realign the lower half of the swivel with the luff groove by giving the lower part of the swivel a good, hard twist to get it back into position. The upper swivel then slid up and down easily.

After that "fix", I ordered new bushings for the swivel so that the swivel would not be so easily misaligned due to worn bushings, to be installed before launch in the spring. I was finally able to access to the mast last weekend and removed the upper swivel. I found that the new bushings don't quite match what I have in my furler. The new bushings are mostly round on the inside and do not have the shoulders on the inside that keep the furler aligned with the luff groove and keep the lower half of the swivel from turning independently of the luff groove (pictures below).

Here is the existing furler, the bottom side that aligns with the luff groove. Note the "shoulders" on the bushing and similar but smaller ridges in the inside of the furler.

Here is the top of the furler, the part that is free to turn around the luff. This bushing is also free to rotate in its track. It does not have the same shoulders, but the metal ridges inside the furler are also visible in this picture.

Below are the new bushings I was supplied. Note that they appear to be identical and neither has the "shoulders" to align with the luff groove and keep the lower part of the furler from turning around the luff.

I have two questions for the group:

1. Do I need the bushing with the "shoulders" to make the upper swivel of the roller furling work properly? I think I do, but I don't really know. I have called ProFurl (now part of Wichard) multiple times, and left three messages, but this year they will not return calls. Last year's service was excellent but the person I talked to last year is no longer with them.

2. I have obtained a nearly identical upper swivel from a friend of a friend of a friend who changed his rig. This second furler looks the same except the inside metal part of the upper swivel does not have the raised ridges inside that my existing swivel has. The bushings in the second furler are in better shape and the swivel appears to less used than my current one. Will this second furler work on my boat? Below is a picture of the bottom half that aligns with the luff and groove.

Thank you. I need to figure something out in a couple days so I can launch my boat.

 

[joker460]

I changed mine and the bushings without the nubs are the new replacements. The problem with the nubs version is when they wear, the swivel jams on the foil.
The swivel will still function since it will rotate via the bearing but you won't be able to lower the sail.

 

[jssailem]

Just guessing here, it would appear the new bushings are just there to slide on the furler extrusion. Are the new ones a snug fit to the extrusion? Do they properly fit the swivel?

You might check to affirm that the bushings are supposed to be symmetrical. Could the tech guy have sent 2 upper bushings?

You are right a stuck jib is no fun. When mine stuck? It was the last straw. I bit the bullet and replaced my 35 year old Pro Furler with a Harken. All the issues went away. After 35 years of service I figured the old one did not owe me anything. Maybe you can sell the parts of your unit to an interested party.

 

[CapitalistSailor]

I changed mine and the bushings without the nubs are the new replacements. The problem with the nubs version is when they wear, the swivel jams on the foil.
The swivel will still function since it will rotate via the bearing but you won't be able to lower the sail.

Joker460, I'm not sure what you mean. I think you are saying that new replacement bushings don't have the nubs or shoulders to ride on either side of the luff groove, but when you say I won't be able to lower the sail, using the new type of bushings doesn't seem to be a useful solution.

 

[CapitalistSailor]

You might check to affirm that the bushings are supposed to be symmetrical. Could the tech guy have sent 2 upper bushings?

jssailem, it would be better if I could discuss this matter with ProFurl, but they have not responded to several calls and voicemail messages. There is no detailed information on their website to resolve the situation. Hence the need for a wide circle of potential advisors.

Both new bushings I have appear to be almost identical to the bushing in the upper half of the upper swivel. They are the same diameter as far as I can tell. I won't know for sure until I take the old ones out and replace them, but they require a press to get them in and once they go in and I can't take them out without destroying them.

 

[jssailem]

I agree they look the same as the upper bushing. That is why I asked the question. Wish I had more info. Do you know any rigging professionals in your area? Perhaps they have run across this issue before and know the answer. Is there a Beneteau dealer in the area that might have an idea?

I looked up the manual on ProFurler website... It shows the following parts breakdown. Likely they want to sell you the complete swivel not just the bushings. My guess the lower bushing is a formed proprietary item. The swivel Part # P250021.

 

[joker460]

Joker460, I'm not sure what you mean. I think you are saying that new replacement bushings don't have the nubs or shoulders to ride on either side of the luff groove, but when you say I won't be able to lower the sail, using the new type of bushings doesn't seem to be a useful solution.

Correct, I was told by Profurl( Wichard) Quebec that the bushings without the nubs are the new style. It prevents the swivel from jamming.

I meant that the old style wears(with nubs) and allows the bushing to rotate and jam on the foil. The furling still works but you can't lower the sail.

Hope that's clear

 

[CapitalistSailor]

I finally heard back from ProFurl. He said on the phone that replacement bushings no longer had the nubs or shoulders that align with the luff groove. After we talked on the phone, I sent him the pictures in the first post in this thread and a similar description of the situation. He wrote that after looking at the pictures and description that he understood the situation and advised me to give the second furler a try. He said he understood my concern about using the original furler that had the small ridges inside without a bushing with the ridges to align with them. So I'll drive out to the yard tomorrow and see if the second furler looks like it will work.

I wrote back to ProFurl that I would try the second furler, but what happens if everything seems OK with the mast, furler, and everything else lying on its side, and when I get the mast up at launch, what if the new swivel doesn't work right or hangs up? Can I take get the furler drum and upper swivel off from the bottom of the forestay and foil (using halyards as temporary stays) without damaging anything? I have some pictures of the furler assembly at the bottom end of the furler. I haven't heard back yet.

It would be nice to have a way out that doesn't involve pulling the mast if the new furler swivel doesn't work out.

 

[jssailem]

Yes you can tighten a halyard or two to the bow cleat. This will allow you to release the bottom of the furler and remove the swivel.

My rigger removed and replaced my furler while the boat was standing in jack stands with the mast up. No problem.

 

[cdnmurse]

I have this exact issue and have been muscling up the jib in the spring with the winch, fearful i'm going to snap something the tension is so tight. I plan on replacing the bushings with P155029 in the upper swivel. Can you tell me how you did it?

 

[CapitalistSailor]

cdnmurse,

I replaced the upper swivel with the one I got from a friend of a friend of a friend that used to represent Profurl. I replaced the swivel when the mast was down and on it’s side in storage, and the boat was on land. I replaced the upper swivel by disconnecting the top of the forestay from the mast, disconnecting the halyard from the upper swivel, sliding the old swivel off the top of the foil, and sliding the replacement swivel into place on the foil. Then I reconnected the forestay to the mast and the halyard to the upper swivel. The new swivel felt very stiff for rotation compared to the old one, probably because it had been sitting in someone’s shed for a dozen years or longer, but it worked fine.

I clean out the foil groove as best I can each spring, and spray a bunch of MacLube on the jib luff when I hoist it. I have a foot-long piece of jib luff material with a grommet on each end that I can run up and down the groove to clear it out, usually with cleaner or spray lube applied.

Good luck!

 

[cdnmurse]

I do exactly the same thing with McLube and luff tape.. The bushings definitely are the cause of my issues. My mast is still up so I'm going to buy the bushings and replace them, hoping not to ruin the upper swivel in the process. I'm going to have to disconnect the forestay, remove the drum and slide the upper swivel off the extrusion at the bottom, then figure out how to replace the bushings. Cedric Martel at Wichard/profurl was no help.

 

[CapitalistSailor]

cdnmurse,

The rubber bushings might be a press fit. You might need an auto or machine shop to help you with it if you don't have the means at home.

At least you have a couple months to figure it out. I assume you pulled your boat for the winter. I lived in Essex, CT. for while in high school, and sailed and fished on the Connecticut River and down into the Sound, and as I recall the weather was pretty rugged in the winter.