Potential new Hunter owner

[60bubba]

Hello all,

I am a former liveaboard sailor and retired Naval officer. I haven't owned a sailboat for almost two decades, though I have done a little lake sailing from time to time. Now that I'm retired and we've settled down, I think it's time to introduce our 4 and 8 year olds to sailing--besides the Hobie Wave at our summer vacation spot.

Heading down to look at a Hunter 23 tomorrow. It seems to be in good shape, and I'm hoping that the hull is sound. I had to do a lot of work on my old Beneteau. It had lived a hard life as a charter boat in the Caribbean, so I'm not afraid of a project.

I've read about the rudder brackets and their hull fittings. Anything else I should pay attention to? It has a trailer so I need to figure out the condition of bearings, etc. Also, there's an 8 horse Evinrude (unknown model or age) I can get with the boat for about $600. If it runs, I'll probably do that.

Anyway, hoping to be back among those afflicted with by boat ownership soon. And Jim, if you're on here, I'll see you tomorrow!

 

[kappykaplan]

Welcome to our merry band of sailors, 60bubba!

 

[rgranger]

Are you looking at the original H23 or the newer water ballast H23.5?

 

[60bubba]

Are you looking at the original H23 or the newer water ballast H23.5?

It is a wing keel Hunter 23, from the description and speaking with the owner.

 

[shemandr]

I'd pretty much assume the trailer hubs need replacement and prolly the tires too. It depends on your use.
Highway speed - definitely. Sneaking to launch and retrieval twice a year maybe not. Also make sure the trailer is registered, or at least has a serial #, has plates and/or was registered in the last 2 years. In some states it can be very difficult to register an orphan trailer.
$600 seems to be a middle of the road price for that engine. Are you sure you want to be pulling a cord to start it? On some boats the mounting of an outboard can put you at risk of back injury starting it - others not so much. See if it's a long shaft, which from my very brief search seems to exist.
Send pics!

 

[60bubba]

I'd pretty much assume the trailer hubs need replacement and prolly the tires too. It depends on your use.
Highway speed - definitely. Sneaking to launch and retrieval twice a year maybe not. Also make sure the trailer is registered, or at least has a serial #, has plates and/or was registered in the last 2 years. In some states it can be very difficult to register an orphan trailer.
$600 seems to be a middle of the road price for that engine. Are you sure you want to be pulling a cord to start it? On some boats the mounting of an outboard can put you at risk of back injury starting it - others not so much. See if it's a long shaft, which from my very brief search seems to exist.
Send pics!

I'll have to check the ergonomics of the motor. I'm used to pressing the button on a powerhouse 27HP diesel! As for the trailer, 100% agreed on registration. I think I can leave the boat where it sits in a slip about 55 min from home for a while at least. If so, I'll drag the trailer home EMPTY to do the maintenance work. That would be a plus to getting this particular vessel.

Also, I know it's been in the water for a while--weeks if not months--so I'm hoping that I'll have a better idea if she leaks. I won't be able to check the keel, etc. on my first visit, but if the initial checks look good, the plan is to take it out for a "sea trial" this weekend and will pull it from the water at some point. I'll post up some pictures once I've seen it in person.

 

[jaysweet]

I bought a wing-keel H23 with my father (also a retired Naval officer!) in 2001. My thoughts: first, it was a good boat to get into "big boat" sailing, where I'll define that as "any sailboat you're not going to capsize and right on your own". I would very strongly recommend keeping it in a slip, as opposed to trying to launch and retrieve it each time. Getting the mast up is a real chore, and can be hair-raising. You're always worried something is going to go wrong and you're going to lose it to one side and rip off the cabin top. Also, our wing keel fit into the trailer like a old lock into a key, which made it really tough to launch if your ramp is too steep: it can try to lift the trailer up before it's free. We launched and retrieved it once a year for 3 years, and it was never easy. I think on a shallower ramp, it would have been much easier.

The first year, we totally rebuilt the trailer hubs and brakes (with new), and I believe the brakes were seized up again by the next year. So you definitely need to give them some attention. As I recall, we had to have them inspected to get it licensed, and (correctly) it failed the first time.

We had a pull-to-start 2 stroke outboard with a remote gas tank (5HP, I think?). It worked fine.

With all that said, it was a good boat, and a nice way to get into sailing (for us). I would hope the boat you're looking at isn't more than a few thousand. Good luck with your decision!

 

[rgranger]

I have bought, restored and sold seven old sailboats over the years. One thing I have come to really understand is that when buying a 30+ (or even a 20+) boat... you are never actually buying the boat. You are buying the sails, motor and trailer. A new trailer is $2K, new sails are $2K, a new OB is closer to $6K. There are tricks to finding a decent used trailer for less than a new one but... it is a bit of a PITA. We can talk you through some of those stratagies. Fiberglass repair is easy and inexpensive. Paint is cheap... basic wiring a carpentry are also easy and cheap... if you are a little gunshy on fiberglass, just youtube it. If you F-it, you can always grind it out and try again until you get it right... and a lot of us here can talk you through that. It is amazing what a little mildew killer and a pressure wash can do to a nasty hull

So! Try real hard to look past the cosmetics of the actual hull and boat. Carefully examine the sails. Ask to bend them on the mast and make sure the pocket is still in the upper third of the luff. If the sails are blown, point it out and ask for a discount. It ain't a sailboat without sails.
I would not give him a dime for the OB unless you can get it to start by the 5th pull. I would assume he warmed it up before you got there so it should fire right up. Depending on what you plan to do, you may just want a trolling motor to get in and out of the slips. A boat that small only needs a 4hp to push it at hull speed so you can find a decent (6hp or less) OB.

In addition to the hubs, check the crossbeam on the trailer. Make sure there is enough heft in the metal that you can clean it up etc.

I forget where I read this but The gudgeons for the rudder sometimes show cracking at the transom

 

[caverun]

And if the trailer does not look good here is a Hunter 23 trailer in Cincinnati for $450- needs a little work, but not bad-
Sailboat Trailer - boat parts - by owner - marine sale (craigslist.org)

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

All who have responded have always provided excellent information and can be trusted. I am a former Hunter dealer now retired who sold and serviced the Hunter 23.
Welcome Aboard Sir.

Dave Condon alias Crazy Dave
VMI 72

 

[isaksp00]

H23 owner here. Check all the bulkheads inside, including in the storage areas under the settees and at the aft end of the cabin. Look for evidence of water staining in case cabin was flooded. Look inside the lazarette under cockpit to see if the bulkheads between it and cabin are sound (not rotted). Look at the bulkheads that support the chainplates; if the chainplates covers are not sealed water may have infiltrated and rotted these. It's doable to replace these but not a fun job.

 

[60bubba]

Thanks for all the great info. I'll take pictures and try to put them up when I see it today. If I move forward and we sail this weekend, hopefully I'll get some more info. I think I'd really prefer an H26 for the interior space, but I don't have a suitable tow vehicle...also it seems like stepping the mast makes the notion of taking it in and out of the water to transport more of a PITA than I was expecting. I (mistakenly) assumed these trailer sailors would come with a mast rigging system standard.

 

[isaksp00]

I would not characterize the 23 as a trailer sailor. The mast is heavy enough that I would only want to use it when you can keep it in the water, or at least only have to step/unstep a limited number of times per season. Also it is a rather tall mast, so when you slide it back along the deck to fix the pin into the Tabernacle, more of its weight is aft of the crutch before it is positioned over the Tabernacle. You have to hold the base down against this leverage in order to pin it - I consider that at least a 2 person job.

 

[rgranger]

I have owned an H26 and slept out on it often. it’s a very nice little weekender kind of boat… it also comes with a mast raising system… it’s not hard to Raise the mast but it takes about an hour and a half to set the boat up solo …so not ideal for a quick day trip but great for a weekend trip. You might also look at the H 23.5. It’s the baby sister to the H26 and quite easily will accommodate three people( two adults and a child )for a Weekend. Regarding your concerns of a tow vehicle the H 26 the H260 and the H 23.5 are all water ballast boats so once up on the trailer they’re actually quite lite. When looking at the tow capacity of your vehicle you have to check the ballast of the boat empty for towing purposes

 

[60bubba]

I have owned an H26 and slept out on it often. it’s a very nice little weekender kind of boat… it also comes with a mast raising system… it’s not hard to Raise the mast but it takes about an hour and a half to set the boat up solo …so not ideal for a quick day trip but great for a weekend trip. You might also look at the H 23.5. It’s the baby sister to the H26 and quite easily will accommodate three people( two adults and a child )for a Weekend. Regarding your concerns of a tow vehicle the H 26 the H260 and the H 23.5 are all water ballast boats so once up on the trailer they’re actually quite lite. When looking at the tow capacity of your vehicle you have to check the ballast of the boat empty for towing purposes

I have seen a couple nice H26 examples and they obviously have much greater interior volume than the H23. My tow vehicle is limited to 5,000 pounds, and from what I can tell an empty H26 is beyond that on the trailer. Maybe time to get back into a pickup…

 

[60bubba]

Just got home from looking at the H23. It was billed as needing some cosmetic cleanup but being “ready to sail”. I knew the windows were trashed and even knew they were taped to keep out water. I can live with that.

What wasn’t disclosed was the major damage and what I consider a worse-than-nothing repair to the hull and rub rail. It’s hard to see, but there’s one section where the rub rail just bridges a gap about an inch deep and a couple feet long where the deck joint is just…missing. Apparently a boat partially tore free in its slip, turned 90° to the H23, and proceeded to pound the snot out of it for a week.

if I could keep the boat near home, I still might have been willing to take on these repairs, but it looks like the boat is going to be about an hour away for the foreseeable future, and major structural repair outdoors that far from home seem unrealistic.

In addition to the windows and hull to deck joint, the aft bulkhead was sloughing off its paint (see photo). Another user on here had a similar situation and the bulkhead turned out to be rotted, so that’s a caution flag.

Finally, the motor had some kind of leak at the carb. he said you could “keep it running if you fiddled with it”. Maybe minor, but I’m more of an EFI guy so getting into a carb job on a motor from a ghost company doesn’t seem desirable either.

Galvanizing on the trailer was rusted through pretty extensively from the pics I saw. Again, perhaps no big deal, but with all of these asterisks I don’t think this is a boat I can sink $3,500 into before any of the required repairs…

 

[isaksp00]

The price is $3500? That'd be a hard pass from me. I don't think I'd take it for free, given the cost of all the repairs. Photos would imply to me the sails are likely trash, running and standing rigging, ...

 

[kappykaplan]

I don’t think this is a boat I can sink $3,500 into before any of the required repairs…

Vote with your feet - run away!

 

[60bubba]

Photos would imply to me the sails are likely trash, running and standing rigging, ...

This was my thought too. It was advertised as having “excellent sails” but what I could see made me think old, if not original. Some of the running rigging even had lichen growing on it.

I’ve worked on a tired old boat, and it’s tough even when you live on it and are there every day. To fix it to my standard would cost 2X the purchase price. Oh well, there will be another.

 

[shemandr]

There are pictures and then reality. Sounds like the decision made itself. And it is a lesson for all that words like "Excellent condition, low hours, recent refit, engine rebuild ( In 2003"), one owner, fresh water boat, and the most deceiving "Sister Ship", are meaningless in boat ads. What you see is what you get.