Potential first boat for me?

LakeShark · Apr 6, 2023

Hollyberry said:
A traveler forward of the helmsperson, while often a cockpit obstruction, is much more ergonomic than a transom mounted one. A more natural position to have one hand on tiller, and the main sheet in the other without twisting/turning etc. Also traveler adjustment closer to hand and simpler. Not the only way to do it but works for many.

The Capri 22 is actually designed this way but it is a fractional rig and intended more for local club racing. The Catalina 22 has a rather wide beam and the travel only helps marginally in the boats windward performance. The boat is mostly sailed with the large oversized Genoa and the main used for balance. When racing you often backwind the main to gain upwind performance without sacrificing speed. Its an odd boat but does work for sure.

LakeShark · Apr 6, 2023

pinchecharlie said:
Ah that’s why. I just watched a video on fractional rigs and masthead rigs and the adjustable back stay changing the mast shape/sail shape. Not to dive to deep but is an adjustable back stay all that important on a masthead rig ? The video made it seem as it distorts the forestry to much ? I just wonder because if it was free I’d just do the stingy sailor deal with the rigging and call it good?

Totally worth it. The forestay sag is controlled by the back stay tensioner. the larger the dip in the forestay the more "power" in the head sail. the tighter the less as it moves the draft in the sail. Down wind though is where you see the most performance as the mast should actually bend slightly forward to give max power to the headsail.

When I raise the mast I like a foot of movement left and right at nose height in the forestay with the backstay tensioner fully released. most C22 sailors sail with the rig far too tight to enjoy the best performance. North sails has a decent tuning guide on stay tension but the C22 tech manual has much better articles and settings to truly start to dial in the rig.

brockangelo · Apr 6, 2023

I'll stick my neck out a bit here, but keep in mind that I'm only one year into owning a C22... No, an adjustable backstay isn't important for new owners. In fact, I personally don't think it is worth even messing with until you've had a few years of sailing and can understand the implications of tuning your sails. The boat in question doesn't have tell-tales, which (I think) are much more important for getting to know what is really happening with the airflow over the sails. An adjustable backstay will allow you to bend the mast into the desired position, but if you are just starting out, you'd have no idea how to use it.

brockangelo · Apr 6, 2023

Sorry @LakeShark, it looks like we posted at the same time. I wasn't meaning to object to your points, just giving my perspective as a new owner.

There is an enormous amount to learn when you are new to a boat. If you can manage all of the variables involved, yes, a backstay can absolutely help your sail performance; but I don't think it is a high priority until you have the sail know-how.

LakeShark · Apr 6, 2023

brockangelo said:
I'll stick my neck out a bit here, but keep in mind that I'm only one year into owning a C22... No, an adjustable backstay isn't important for new owners. In fact, I personally don't think it is worth even messing with until you've had a few years of sailing and can understand the implications of tuning your sails. The boat in question doesn't have tell-tales, which (I think) are much more important for getting to know what is really happening with the airflow over the sails. An adjustable backstay will allow you to bend the mast into the desired position, but if you are just starting out, you'd have no idea how to use it.

This is great advice!

Sail that are not like bedsheets, proper tails, and an understanding of sail shape are more important than the various adjustments to start. However once your hooked well... That's why my Laser has 7 strings (vang, Cunningham, outhaul, main sheet, traveler, hiking strap, and tension to hold the board) to adjust a single sail with no stays at all!

LakeShark · Apr 6, 2023

If you are replacing the backstay you might as well go adjustable. The cost is minimal at the time of replacement. As for being in step....

Sailors are as diverse as the boats they love.

brockangelo · Apr 6, 2023

In general if you are replacing the backstay anyways, you'd opt for the adjustable, even if you leave it in place for a couple years until you can get a feel for the boat. Whether or not it is a priority is left to the experts here. And yes, we all have opinions but you'll find that we don't bicker like we are on Facebook; we all just enjoy being out on the water. Honestly the "heated debates" here tend to inform all sides on new ways of thinking about the sport/craft/art/obsession, so they are generally pretty well received.

jon hansen · Apr 6, 2023

1. don guillette's guide on sail trim. he's right here on this web sight.

2. brand new, top of the line SAILS. when buying an old, used boat, the very first thing i do is get new sails.

me, i wouldn't want an engine for a 22' vessel. a paddle is all i need. that's what i have on my 69' cal 20'. new sails and a paddle. and you will want don's guide. it's great for beginners.

Chase Hartzell · Apr 7, 2023

jon hansen said:
2. brand new, top of the line SAILS. when buying an old, used boat, the very first thing i do is get new sails.

me, i wouldn't want an engine for a 22' vessel. a paddle is all i need. that's what i have on my 69' cal 20'. new sails and a paddle. and you will want don's guide. it's great for beginners.

So now I’m curious. What are considered “top of the line” sails for the Catalina 22?
I also had a 1969 Cal 20 when I was stationed in Hawaii with beautiful new North Sails.

LakeShark · Apr 7, 2023

Mung Sung Hero said:
So now I’m curious. What are considered “top of the line” sails for the Catalina 22?
I also had a 1969 Cal 20 when I was stationed in Hawaii with beautiful new North Sails.

Top of the line for racing are a full composite set from Joe Waters at Waters sails. North and Ulman make good sails as well but in the c22 class nothing beats a Waters sail.

Cruising sails run the gamet. Ulman makes the OEM and they are a very high quality sail.

Mains are generally full batten and loose foot for cruising and a 2x2 for racing.

stevenhagberg · Apr 10, 2023

LakeShark said:
Its really hard to value a boat with just pictures. if there are no soft spots in the deck and with the trailer and motor generally they can be had in this condition around 3K or so. More in better shape and in newer years. The C22 is one of the single most produced boats ever made with something like 5K plus to date. best to watch and wait. Your at the start of the season so far so they will show up.

I think there are over 16,000 C 22’s. There are a LOT of them everywhere.

stevenhagberg · Apr 10, 2023

It might be worth it to travel a little and maybe expand your budget. You can see how easy it is to spend a bunch of money fixing up an older boat.
Here is a link. Just for an idea. Of course it doesn’t include a trailer but it would probably be cheaper in the first year than what you are looking at.

'98 Catalina Capri 22' - boats - by owner - marine sale

Selling a well cared for 1998 Catalina Capri 22. The boat is on a mooring in the A field in Newport Beach, but lived most of its life in the first slip at the San Diego Yacht Club (it was not a club...

losangeles.craigslist.org

I have a C30 but if I move away from the coast I will be looking for C22.
Let me know if you need any help looking down here.
steve

Gene Neill · Apr 11, 2023

There are surprisingly few C22's for sale in Florida right now. Craigslist has a total of four within 150 miles in any direction, all of them garbage. Facebook about the same, although there is one that actually looks pretty good.

So ... maybe one in Florida worth looking at.

Potential first boat for me?

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