Iam looking to buy my first sailboat and iam pretty sold on finding a cat 22. Bad news is I live in Montana and well we aren’t a big sailboat destination lol. I will have to drive at a minimum 5-6 hours just to look and much farther to the coast (Seattle is 12hrs) so here’s one Ian potentially going to look at. It’s listed for 5500. I had offered them less because I allready have a 6hp sail pro. Anyway it’s the closest I’ve found at 5 hrs away lol. The boats for lakes obviously and iam taking lessons just to cover that. I will admit I know jack doodley about them except for what I’ve read (which is a lot) but have no practical experience. So do you see anything that pops out to you? Remember a 2500 dollar boat will cost me a lot more to drive and get. Maybe not the full price but I also don’t want a basket case . Here’s pictures. Thanks new guy from Bozeman Montana (going to retire on a big one in a decade woot woot!)
Potential first boat for me?
- Thread starter pinchecharlie
- Start date
I don't see any red flags from the pictures you've posted. It looks pretty darn identical to my boat (12482 is my sail number, so I'm just a couple hundred boats younger than yours). In fact, you're in the spot that I was in last February when I got mine, and I did a number of projects last year to upgrade mine, so we're practically sail twins. 
Here are my observations:
Here are my observations:
- Your trailer is a lot better than mine. A dual axle is definitely a plus, but what I'm seeing that mine doesn't have are those bunks that will help you steer the boat onto the trailer. I just have the v-notch that the keel is supposed to magically line up with. Spoiler alert, it never does. That is something I'm working on this weekend. With your bunks, getting the boat back onto the trailer will be much easier for you. Important since you'll be trailering a lot.
- Your halyards end at the base of the mast. This is something that I replaced before going out on the water. What it means is that if you want to raise or lower either of your sails, you have to go up on the deck in the wind and lower them. Either dodging the mainsail and walking up one of the sides, or crawling over the companionway on your stomach like you're in the trenches and ducking under the mainsail. With the halyard lines "led aft", you can safely raise and lower them from the cockpit. You can order kits that include everything you need, including longer lines to reach the cockpit, as well as cleats, turning blocks, etc to make it work. It is a project, but well worth it. I can't tell from the photos, but you probably have wire halyards as well. If so, most folks have upgraded those to line (rope) instead as it is lighter and I believe stronger and doesn't cut your hands when it frays.
- I don't see transom scuppers in your cockpit, and this was another project I did before I was on the water. The way the C22 was designed, the cockpit slopes forward and the water drains just below the companionway down through the hull. When those drains clog and fill with rain, the companionway is lower than the transom, so water fills your cabin before it goes out the back. What you do is drill two holes at the back, bottom of the cockpit, on the transom, so that water goes out the back before it goes into the cabin. Very helpful if you have to leave the boat out in the rain but not as much of a concern if you'll have it in a garage or storage shed. It was crucial for me because I had mine parked at a slip on the water 45 minutes away.
- I don't see a bimini on it, but we can't live without one since we're pretty pale.
- One other thing I forgot to add that I don't see is a "boomkicker". When you lower the main sail, the boom will otherwise fall down into the cockpit. The boomkicker addition holds the boom in place as it is when the main sail is up, so one less thing to have to worry about when raising and lowering. I'd almost require that if you don't run the lines back to the cockpit as it creates a huge mess while you're up on the deck otherwise.
6. Get telltales for your sails and learn how to read them. They are the little red and green strings that are attached along the sail. When they are both flowing back perfectly, you have your sail trimmed right. Without those, you don't know if you're sails are working well or not. They are a really cheap and helpful addition.
I actually live in Idaho (where that boat appears to be registered). There isn't too much that stands out to me as a red flag. I would strongly suggest replacing the keel winch which appears to be the original (based on what the handle looks like). One of the issues with these older winches is that the drum diameter is so small, it tends to kink and stress the keel cable. When I got mine, the keel cable had already snapped and it was pretty clear that the smaller drum diameter had been a contributor. The other thing to consider is whether you'll need a trailer tongue extension to launch it. Not a deal breaker, but maybe someone else can weigh in on how crucial that will be.
Naturally, there will be several preventative maintenance items you will want to do before first setting sail, unless the current owner can tell you the last time things were inspected/replaced. I'm talking about keel pivot bolts (x4 SS bolts), shroud replacement, keel hoist cable replacement, etc.).
Keep us informed on whether you become the proud new owner of this boat!
Naturally, there will be several preventative maintenance items you will want to do before first setting sail, unless the current owner can tell you the last time things were inspected/replaced. I'm talking about keel pivot bolts (x4 SS bolts), shroud replacement, keel hoist cable replacement, etc.).
Keep us informed on whether you become the proud new owner of this boat!
7. Another thing that you don't always think about when sailing is the axle bearings. Check those and see if they have what are called "Bearing Buddies" on them, or some other easy way to grease the bearings with a grease gun. I've seen a lot of trailers parked on the side of the highway because the grease runs out and bearings catch fire. With Bearing Buddies, you just pull off the rubber cap and pump them full of grease and you're done, but you need to check them before each trip and top them up. I keep my grease gun in the truck at all times.
Well I finally was able to talk with the gentleman who owns the boat and I now have a short list of what are in his opinion problems. To me these all seem like common things on an older boat or car or whatever but I suppose they may raise a red flag to you guys? Ok so-
1-he says the teak is pretty weather worn and needs refinished. He did mention cracks though. So maybe there’s some that need replaced?
2-the hull paint is oxidized and obviously the bottom paint is bad. I’ve never refinished fiber glass but have spent years as a painter so I know the work. I just don’t know when bad paint or gel coat cracks means damage to the substrate?
3-there are two mast stays that have broken frayed strands. Iam assumming it’s like all stranded cable and has what we called “snake bites” on them lol. I just bought the stingy sailor’s e-book so I’ll most likely need to re do the rigging? As well as the running rigging? So now we’re at a sizable exspense? I haven’t really estimated it yet but can imagine it to be around 2k for standing and running?
4- the head sail is not original to the boat. I do not know if the owner knows but he said it was a small Genoa? So I know from reading that these are measured in percentages. I would not know in person if It was good or not? So iam guessing I would need to buy a proper jib Sail?
I would say that the rigging and the sails would be around 2500-2700 or more if you bought a cool kid sail? I dunno? I actually love messing with stuff and have had many projects that are worth a third what I spent lol! But…I should be careful and conscious too I think? I dunno what do you think?
yes the boats up near cour de Aleana (spelling?) if you know of others iam interested.
1-he says the teak is pretty weather worn and needs refinished. He did mention cracks though. So maybe there’s some that need replaced?
2-the hull paint is oxidized and obviously the bottom paint is bad. I’ve never refinished fiber glass but have spent years as a painter so I know the work. I just don’t know when bad paint or gel coat cracks means damage to the substrate?
3-there are two mast stays that have broken frayed strands. Iam assumming it’s like all stranded cable and has what we called “snake bites” on them lol. I just bought the stingy sailor’s e-book so I’ll most likely need to re do the rigging? As well as the running rigging? So now we’re at a sizable exspense? I haven’t really estimated it yet but can imagine it to be around 2k for standing and running?
4- the head sail is not original to the boat. I do not know if the owner knows but he said it was a small Genoa? So I know from reading that these are measured in percentages. I would not know in person if It was good or not? So iam guessing I would need to buy a proper jib Sail?
I would say that the rigging and the sails would be around 2500-2700 or more if you bought a cool kid sail? I dunno? I actually love messing with stuff and have had many projects that are worth a third what I spent lol! But…I should be careful and conscious too I think? I dunno what do you think?
yes the boats up near cour de Aleana (spelling?) if you know of others iam interested.
Here's my entire spreadsheet of expenses since I purchased mine last February. Not all of these are necessary, but provided for full transparency. You can certainly do without most of these, but I tend to go with pre-made kits for repairs since I don't have the patience to do things twice (my boat is 45 minutes away) and had the cash to spare to get it operational more quickly.
The money adds up fast. My $4200 boat had an additional $10k of expenses in just a year. Again, most others here can do a lot of these projects themselves with things they already have, but just buying kits is expensive.
| 2/26/2022 | Boat & Trailer | $4,200.00 |
| 2/28/2022 | Manual & DVD's | $125.70 |
| 3/1/2022 | Mast Stepper | $223.95 |
| 3/1/2022 | Sailing Electronics Simplified, Book | $25.07 |
| 3/2/2022 | Evinrude Motor Repair Manual | $20.71 |
| 3/3/2022 | Trailer Title & Registration | $242.33 |
| 3/4/2022 | Outboard motor | $1,839.18 |
| 3/6/2022 | Boat Title & Registration | $65.92 |
| 3/6/2022 | Sales Tax | $238.00 |
| 3/7/2022 | Catalina 22 Membership | $54.00 |
| 3/11/2022 | Name, Registration Numbers, and Key Floats | $77.18 |
| 3/12/2022 | Teak Sealer | $46.76 |
| 3/15/2022 | Cotter Rings | $25.19 |
| 3/16/2022 | Quick Release Pins for Shrouds | $59.30 |
| 3/17/2022 | Pop-Top EZ Lift Kit | $140.00 |
| 3/17/2022 | Lazarette EZ Lift Kit | $80.00 |
| 3/20/2022 | Halyards Aft Kit, transom drains, ladder pads | $468.25 |
| 3/20/2022 | Self Steering Book | $19.57 |
| 3/20/2022 | Toolbox | $26.15 |
| 3/20/2022 | Forestay Quick Release Lever | $81.25 |
| 3/21/2022 | Toggle Jaws | $102.30 |
| 3/22/2022 | Grease gun | $44.42 |
| 3/23/2022 | Bearing Caps and Teak Cleaner | $39.47 |
| 3/24/2022 | Motor Oil | $34.79 |
| 4/4/2022 | Cotter Pins | $26.10 |
| 4/5/2022 | Sail Stops | $44.81 |
| 4/11/2022 | Quick Release and Boom Kicker | $315.50 |
| 5/6/2022 | Portable Marine Radio | $69.68 |
| 5/7/2022 | Clinton Lake Slip 511 | $1,232.00 |
| 5/17/2022 | Jib bag, main sliders, table brackets, misc | $534.16 |
| 5/18/2022 | Outhaul | $99.17 |
| 5/19/2022 | Jib downhaul, tiller extension, halyard organizers | $285.88 |
| 5/23/2022 | Life jackets | $707.56 |
| 5/23/2022 | 3 Quick Release Levers | $228.23 |
| 5/23/2022 | Bimini Rail | $69.11 |
| 5/23/2022 | Portable Toilet and sanitizer | $53.51 |
| 5/27/2022 | CLSA Membership | $70.00 |
| 5/29/2022 | Fids and splicing manual | $110.31 |
| 5/29/2022 | Cam Cleats and risers | $131.65 |
| 5/30/2022 | New Ocean Jasper decals | $440.91 |
| 6/3/2022 | Stingy Sailor Rigging Manual | $20.00 |
| 6/7/2022 | Reefing kit | $144.20 |
| 6/7/2022 | Double block deck organizer | $97.78 |
| 6/7/2022 | Carabiners for life lines | $18.52 |
| 6/7/2022 | Sharpies for marking ropes and screws | $7.69 |
| 6/13/2022 | Tell-Tales | $12.88 |
| 6/13/2022 | Mosquito Netting | $20.70 |
| 6/13/2022 | Harken Derm - Sunblock and UV Gaitors | $103.00 |
| 6/14/2022 | Lake Erie Map and 2 Whistles | $51.00 |
| 6/15/2022 | IcyBreeze A/C Cooler | $589.91 |
| 6/17/2022 | LED Bulbs and White Elephant Gift - C22 Model | $55.86 |
| 6/20/2022 | Trailer Guide Poles | $116.68 |
| 7/4/2022 | Tell-Tales and Bow Hatch Latch | $50.90 |
| 7/6/2022 | 2-pin SAE Connectors for motor or solar | $11.98 |
| 7/3/2022 | DeBond to remove 4200 Adhesive | $35.24 |
| 7/6/2022 | Line, cup holders, cam cleats and whipping line | $214.84 |
| 7/12/2022 | Trailer Winch Handle | $12.32 |
| 7/8/2022 | iPhone Adapter for Charging and Headphones | $11.99 |
| 7/26/2022 | Plumbers Putty for mounting depth finder | $8.11 |
| 7/26/2022 | 25W Solar Panel Kit | $61.79 |
| 7/28/2022 | Tiller Extension Clips (3) | $19.55 |
| 8/13/2022 | Navigation Light Bulbs | $11.13 |
| 8/13/2022 | Wiring and Lighting components, water jugs, toilet bags | $219.26 |
| 8/17/2022 | Circuit breaker panel and goodies from friend on Sailboat Owners | $100.00 |
The money adds up fast. My $4200 boat had an additional $10k of expenses in just a year. Again, most others here can do a lot of these projects themselves with things they already have, but just buying kits is expensive.
The boat looks pretty clean, sails look tired, no surprise. Lots of good advice above..
Check the area under the mast step for depression or moisture, but they are pretty simple boats. This one looks well cared for (or well prepped for sale)
Check the area under the mast step for depression or moisture, but they are pretty simple boats. This one looks well cared for (or well prepped for sale)
Holly guacamole! You and I are twins most at birth lol! Sometimes I think I should buy a basket case cause iam gonna redo it all anyway lol. I would if not for rotten deck thing. I don’t have that skill just yet and I’d actually like to sail instead of restoring it! Here’s a 50k dollar truck worth 10k I just finished lol!!
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This is an extremely helpful list of relative expenses. You can also visit the Catalina Direct website to try and get a better understanding of potential expenses. As far as running rigging, West Marine has a 30% off sale twice a year. Defender also usually has running rigging for reasonable prices. I, personally, enjoy boat restoration and maintenance. Below is a list of vendors that I use to source my parts.
- Sailboat Owners
- Catalina Direct
- West Marine
- Jamestown Distributors
- Defender
- McMaster Carr
- Grainger
- Trailer Parts Superstore
@pinchecharlie
I see some red flags with the boat that would cause me to walk away. The travel has been moved to be mid cockpit and would be a pain to work around. The split backstay has been modified from the original and is far too high making me question the rigging. I would want to know about soft spots on the deck and attachment points as it looks like a boat that has had some additional mods by previous owners.
I see that your also on the Facebook group and asked about this boat there as well. If the price you listed there (north of 5K) I would not do it. At a minimum your looking at an additional 5k in rigging, sails, and maintenance items to have a good little boat. The trailer does add some value as it looks great but the boat itself looks a bit more tired than I would want to see. For a budget of around 6K there are many better boats out there. Facebook is where generally the best ones show up but beware of the "project" boats.
I see some red flags with the boat that would cause me to walk away. The travel has been moved to be mid cockpit and would be a pain to work around. The split backstay has been modified from the original and is far too high making me question the rigging. I would want to know about soft spots on the deck and attachment points as it looks like a boat that has had some additional mods by previous owners.
I see that your also on the Facebook group and asked about this boat there as well. If the price you listed there (north of 5K) I would not do it. At a minimum your looking at an additional 5k in rigging, sails, and maintenance items to have a good little boat. The trailer does add some value as it looks great but the boat itself looks a bit more tired than I would want to see. For a budget of around 6K there are many better boats out there. Facebook is where generally the best ones show up but beware of the "project" boats.
Brock's spreadsheet is a great help!
FWIW: to our $4500 boat, we've added $20+ over 10 years. But I might have gone a bit over the top. And for us, that's setup for longer cruising adventures in the Salish Sea (we usually do about 2 weeks at a time). Sounds like you're looking for a 5-10 year boat with plans to up-size later. Hoping we can welcome you to the C-22 club
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Good points. Some more detailed pictures of the cockpit might be helpful.
- It looks to me like the original traveler is still in place if you wanted to switch back to it
- Is the backstay a questionable mod? Or something closer to the newer design? (Catalina revised it at some point; I don't know the date). IIUC, the later design has a higher V? But I could be wrong on that - I only really know one C-22.
- You're planning to replace the standing rigging anyway; you already have anchors on both sides of the traveler (some early boats only had one). And an adjustable backstay isn't an unreasonable investment. ~$500 at CD and I did a synthetic one for ~$190
Hmmm….if I lived anywhere else it would be easy! I had offered 4k without his engine and he had accepted it but I could just simply mention these things as potential deal killers with another offer? I just missed a nicer boat in Boise for 4500 . I hate tire kickers but I also don’t really want to replace everything to start? So what’s it worth to someone in the know in a different market? I COULD drive to Seattle for others in the 5-6k range but it’s a long haul and commitment.
I've launched a C22 without a tongue extension so depending on the ramp, its not a must but it's definitely a strong want. For potential boats you can do a virtual inspection over zoom, facetime, etc
Its really hard to value a boat with just pictures. if there are no soft spots in the deck and with the trailer and motor generally they can be had in this condition around 3K or so. More in better shape and in newer years. The C22 is one of the single most produced boats ever made with something like 5K plus to date. best to watch and wait. Your at the start of the season so far so they will show up.
Its a reasonable mod and one I would do but the height of the V is off meaning it has been customized. If an owner is willing to mount a mid cockpit traveler to gain upwind performance and modify the backstay I would wonder what else they changed. None of the mods would be class legal for racing so someone was likely looking to push performance a bit for cruising but at a cost of convivence in my opinion.
A traveler forward of the helmsperson, while often a cockpit obstruction, is much more ergonomic than a transom mounted one. A more natural position to have one hand on tiller, and the main sheet in the other without twisting/turning etc. Also traveler adjustment closer to hand and simpler. Not the only way to do it but works for many.