Portable Generator as a Backup Power Source

TimFromLI · Jan 26, 2023

I installed solar (335 watts/ 660AH flooded battery bank) but keep a Honda eu200i as backup. In the past couple of years, I have been lucky and have not needed the generator with up to 5 days at anchor. But, if you do need to run it, be courteous and don't run it in the morning or evening- regardless of what your neighbors do. . That goes for marine generators too, even tough they are below decks, some are just as noisy or worse than the portables.

Alan Gomes · Jan 26, 2023

Leeward Rail said:
Based on that I have no interest in going. There are places with too many people who like making noise worldwide.
Sounds like a John Belushi movie.

Of course, if you go in the off season it is sometimes possible to have an entire cove to yourself.

I rarely go in the summer, when it is wall-to-wall boats (and generators)!

Leeward Rail · Jan 26, 2023

Terry Cox said:
Our 1991 boat came with an integrated 8KW diesel generator that does a fine job of heating water, cooking meals and topping off our battery banks.

New ones of that quality are really quiet.
Standbeside a new Mercedes Motorhome with their unit running.

Ever since I saw my first sailboat with both inboard and generator, I have wondered why they didn't just make them diesel electric

Ralph Johnstone · Jan 26, 2023

Alan Gomes said:
Of course, if you go in the off season it is sometimes possible to have an entire cove to yourself.

Looks beautiful. Hate to think of what it looks (and sounds) like in the midst of summer.

Alan Gomes · Jan 27, 2023

Ralph Johnstone said:
Looks beautiful. Hate to think of what it looks (and sounds) like in the midst of summer.

It's horrendous.

Ralph Johnstone · Jan 27, 2023

Alan Gomes said:
It's horrendous.

This may offer a solution to annoying jet skis and others ......................

The Ultimate PWC Repellent

dLj · Jan 29, 2023

TimFromLI said:
Honda eu200i

Just a FYI - it's been brought to my attention that the Honda's don't tie the ground and neutral together, something that should be the case in a marine power source. It's been recommended to me that you open up the control panel and tie them together.

dj

dLj · Jan 29, 2023

dkinzer said:
I would think that the bonding of neutral to ground would be done on the boat itself - much like the bonding that is done in your residential breaker panel (unless you have backup generator, etc.).

It's supposed to be done at the power source for marine power sources. At least that's what's been explained to me.

dj

dlochner · Jan 29, 2023

dkinzer said:
I would think that the bonding of neutral to ground would be done on the boat itself - much like the bonding that is done in your residential breaker panel (unless you have backup generator, etc.).

Nope, absolutely not. The neutral/ground bonding only happens at the power source, i.e, the generator, the inverter, or the shore panel. When connected to shore power the boat is nothing more than a big extension cord.

dlochner · Jan 29, 2023

dkinzer said:
So when you're out sailing and your inverter is running your microwave, your ground and neutral are not bonded? That doesn't seem right but perhaps it is true.

The ground and neutral are bonded at the inverter. When properly wired this connection is disconnected when the boat is on shore power. Likewise, if a generator and inverter are onboard, the ground/neutral connection should be made at the generator, not the inverter.

The bond is made at the power source and only when that power source is being used to supply power, i.e, the inverter, generator or shore panel, not the pedestal rather at the main panel.

artleyt115 · Jan 30, 2023

So on our 1984 O'day 26 we used to have a inboard motor which the previous owner tore out. My friend and I decided to put a 4850 Duro-max dual generator in its place for the weight pulled out and the benefits of the generator. Now a couple things we are preparing for it is putting CO detectors in both the engine bay and the cabin. Sound proofing between the the engine bay and the cabin, also running the exhaust through the orginal check valve/ exhaust port of the boat. Our Genny runs on both propane and petrol which we mainly plan to use propane (God's gas). Now we only plan to use it in situations where we are out too long from shore power and are away from other sailors. Or in emergency situations, I would highly recommend a electric start if you plan on using propane (Sometimes it takes an extra crank or two to get it running). We're hooking ours up through the 12v alternator it has on it and the 110v hook up (which would replace our inverter when in use) Hope this helps in anyway

dLj · Jan 30, 2023

artleyt115 said:
So on our 1984 O'day 26 we used to have a inboard motor which the previous owner tore out. My friend and I decided to put a 4850 Duro-max dual generator in its place for the weight pulled out and the benefits of the generator. Now a couple things we are preparing for it is putting CO detectors in both the engine bay and the cabin. Sound proofing between the the engine bay and the cabin, also running the exhaust through the orginal check valve/ exhaust port of the boat. Our Genny runs on both propane and petrol which we mainly plan to use propane (God's gas). Now we only plan to use it in situations where we are out too long from shore power and are away from other sailors. Or in emergency situations, I would highly recommend a electric start if you plan on using propane (Sometimes it takes an extra crank or two to get it running). We're hooking ours up through the 12v alternator it has on it and the 110v hook up (which would replace our inverter when in use) Hope this helps in anyway

I don't understand how you are hooking up the 12V alternator, and the 110V to your ship.

I'd recommend taking an ohm meter and putting it across the neutral and ground in the AC plugs to see if they are connected. If they are not, you should connect them. it's very simple to do...

dj

artleyt115 · Jan 30, 2023

dLj said:
I don't understand how you are hooking up the 12V alternator, and the 110V to your ship.

I'd recommend taking an ohm meter and putting it across the neutral and ground in the AC plugs to see if they are connected. If they are not, you should connect them. it's very simple to do...

dj

So our Genny has two connectors (Really three for the 220 but that is switched off if 12v and 110 is on) they're both on two separate circuits. The 12v is just on a alternator that pushes about 15Amps at max load and goes straight to the battery. The 110 is just like a house outlet and I swap the extension cord from the inverter to the genny. Both the 12v and the 110v run at the same time with no issues

dLj · Jan 30, 2023

artleyt115 said:
So our Genny has two connectors (Really three for the 220 but that is switched off if 12v and 110 is on) they're both on two separate circuits. The 12v is just on a alternator that pushes about 15Amps at max load and goes straight to the battery. The 110 is just like a house outlet and I swap the extension cord from the inverter to the genny. Both the 12v and the 110v run at the same time with no issues

Ah, I see. You have a two pole 12V outlet circuit on the generator and you are hooking that directly to your 12V battery. Then to run your 110AC needs you have an extension cord that either runs to your current inverter, or you plug it into the generator.

I have no idea how the 12V and 110V systems on the generator "interact" if at all. But on your 110V AC system, you should check to see if the ground and neutral are connected. If they are, great. If they aren't, connect them.

It's an easy check, take an Ohm meter and check across the neutral and ground leg in your plugs on the generator and see if there is continuity.

Looks like it should be OK - compare to the Honda:

Note on the front panel where it says the neutral is floating - I circled it in red.

dj

dlochner · Jan 30, 2023

Is the 12v source regulated? How close is it to 12v? Batteries need to be charged at a higher voltage than the nominal 12v. A flooded lead acid battery will charge more efficiently at ~14.8-14.9 v. It would be better to use the 110v output to run a smart battery charger than use the 12v output. Your batteries will appreciate it and live longer.

Leeward Rail · Jan 30, 2023

dLj said:
Just a FYI - it's been brought to my attention that the Honda's don't tie the ground and neutral together

Same with a bunch of other brand models unfortunately. As you mention, it should be checked. Some aren't labeled on the generator. Only in the manual that most people don't read.

artleyt115 · Jan 30, 2023

dLj said:
Ah, I see. You have a two pole 12V outlet circuit on the generator and you are hooking that directly to your 12V battery. Then to run your 110AC needs you have an extension cord that either runs to your current inverter, or you plug it into the generator.

I have no idea how the 12V and 110V systems on the generator "interact" if at all. But on your 110V AC system, you should check to see if the ground and neutral are connected. If they are, great. If they aren't, connect them.

It's an easy check, take an Ohm meter and check across the neutral and ground leg in your plugs on the generator and see if there is continuity.

View attachment 212614

Looks like it should be OK - compare to the Honda:

View attachment 212615

Note on the front panel where it says the neutral is floating - I circled it in red.

dj

Hey thanks DJ for that advice, I'll have to check that next time I am home. I'll post an update if they do.

artleyt115 · Jan 30, 2023

dlochner said:
Is the 12v source regulated? How close is it to 12v? Batteries need to be charged at a higher voltage than the nominal 12v. A flooded lead acid battery will charge more efficiently at ~14.8-14.9 v. It would be better to use the 110v output to run a smart battery charger than use the 12v output. Your batteries will appreciate it and live longer.

So when its on the monitor for the battery shows about 13.8V I haven't taken a volt meter to the genny its self yet. But also a good check to do when I'm home. Thank you for the advice

dlochner · Jan 30, 2023

artleyt115 said:
So when its on the monitor for the battery shows about 13.8V I haven't taken a volt meter to the genny its self yet. But also a good check to do when I'm home. Thank you for the advice

What is the reading after the battery has rested overnight, i.e, no charging, no draining? LA batteries will read high for several hours after being disconnected from a charging source.

Under charging, using a charging voltage lower than 14.8 (for a FLA) will lead to more sulfating on the plates. The higher voltage is needed to break up the sulfate. A low float voltage will work if the battery starts out fully charged.