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Is there any solution to the immigration problem..
WITHOUT some form of national identification? A large part of the problem is merely being able to tell who is legally in this country and who isn't. Employers can't, landlords can't, hospitals can't, schools can't, even the Drivers License bureau isn't equipped to analyze birth certificates, are they? I'd say it's fortunate that the 10 or 20 million illegal immigrants from Central America don't have the same hatred for our country that that pathetic rabble holed up in the mountains of Afghanistan/Pakistan do. We'd REALLY be in trouble then. ;D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8 (still waiting for Phil to wake up and boot this thread to the 'dark side')
WITHOUT some form of national identification? A large part of the problem is merely being able to tell who is legally in this country and who isn't. Employers can't, landlords can't, hospitals can't, schools can't, even the Drivers License bureau isn't equipped to analyze birth certificates, are they? I'd say it's fortunate that the 10 or 20 million illegal immigrants from Central America don't have the same hatred for our country that that pathetic rabble holed up in the mountains of Afghanistan/Pakistan do. We'd REALLY be in trouble then. ;D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8 (still waiting for Phil to wake up and boot this thread to the 'dark side')
Another Boating Fee?
It sounds like yet another way for the government to extract more money from boaters. Apparently, the bureaucratic belief is that if you can afford a boat you can certainly afford to pay for the privilege.
It sounds like yet another way for the government to extract more money from boaters. Apparently, the bureaucratic belief is that if you can afford a boat you can certainly afford to pay for the privilege.
Canadian View
Welcome to our world North of the 49Th Parallel!!! We have licenses and permits for everythng you can think of up here. Last year the wife and I were cruising from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Wilson N.Y. Canadian customs told us we needed forms # .... and #.... filed before we entered U.S. Waters. Well we forgot to do this and when we were close to Wilson N.Y. I expected Either a squadron of F18's or F10's to circle our 26' boat and turn us around since we were told Homeland Security is getting tough. We docked called U.S. Customs and gave our information. They said have a great time and thank you pretty simple Eh! I agree with most of you when you say we don't need anymore government regulations. Larry and Julie Beshert 26' 1979 Chrysler Toronto, Canada.
Welcome to our world North of the 49Th Parallel!!! We have licenses and permits for everythng you can think of up here. Last year the wife and I were cruising from Niagara-on-the-Lake to Wilson N.Y. Canadian customs told us we needed forms # .... and #.... filed before we entered U.S. Waters. Well we forgot to do this and when we were close to Wilson N.Y. I expected Either a squadron of F18's or F10's to circle our 26' boat and turn us around since we were told Homeland Security is getting tough. We docked called U.S. Customs and gave our information. They said have a great time and thank you pretty simple Eh! I agree with most of you when you say we don't need anymore government regulations. Larry and Julie Beshert 26' 1979 Chrysler Toronto, Canada.
Rather Than Jerking Our Knees ....
...what would be helpful would be to e-mail your comments to letterstoeditor@BoatUS.com Seriously, we can get all outraged and red-faced here, but the rubber meets the road at our lobbying group, so clean up your comments, add thoughtful analysis as many here have provided, and please send them on. Reminding them what ID's we alrady can make available to the USCG's mission effort sure would be helpful. Rick D.
...what would be helpful would be to e-mail your comments to letterstoeditor@BoatUS.com Seriously, we can get all outraged and red-faced here, but the rubber meets the road at our lobbying group, so clean up your comments, add thoughtful analysis as many here have provided, and please send them on. Reminding them what ID's we alrady can make available to the USCG's mission effort sure would be helpful. Rick D.
A little note to Guy H
From one of the boys who didn't have the balls to sign up. I recall from boot-camp being informed that the odds of being killed or wounded in the Coast Guard are higher than any other branch of the service,because of the relatively small number of Coast Guardsmen, 36,000 at that time,fewer than the New York City Police Department. The next time that a Coast Guard aid to navagation helps you find your way home,or if you can't find your way, the Coast Guard will be there to save you,just like the tens of thousands before you. As for balls,spend a month on a North Atlantic fisheries patrol and we'll see. I do however agree with your other views,but give the Coast Guard a break, they have alot on their shoulders too.I could tell stories for hours, of boater negligence, and of peoples' ability to hide contraband.
From one of the boys who didn't have the balls to sign up. I recall from boot-camp being informed that the odds of being killed or wounded in the Coast Guard are higher than any other branch of the service,because of the relatively small number of Coast Guardsmen, 36,000 at that time,fewer than the New York City Police Department. The next time that a Coast Guard aid to navagation helps you find your way home,or if you can't find your way, the Coast Guard will be there to save you,just like the tens of thousands before you. As for balls,spend a month on a North Atlantic fisheries patrol and we'll see. I do however agree with your other views,but give the Coast Guard a break, they have alot on their shoulders too.I could tell stories for hours, of boater negligence, and of peoples' ability to hide contraband.
Coast Guard Boater ID Idea
The Coast Guard trial ballon to require a boater's ID should pop and go away. Nothing worse than adding an unnecessary government administered bureaucratic burden in the name of homeland security. Boondoggle. We have state issued licenses and other forms of ID that will suffice.
The Coast Guard trial ballon to require a boater's ID should pop and go away. Nothing worse than adding an unnecessary government administered bureaucratic burden in the name of homeland security. Boondoggle. We have state issued licenses and other forms of ID that will suffice.
MK2, you're right..
that particularly rude and uncalled for comment was directed at the local sheriffs & police departments, not the Coast Guard, and should not have been included anyway as a blanket statement that doesn't accurately describe all of them anyway...my apologies to you and everyone else I wronged with that silly statement that I would now like to delete, but guess I'm now stuck with it... I stand by my comment that no law enforcement or military unit should be stopping boaters or anyone else with no probable cause and no warrant.
that particularly rude and uncalled for comment was directed at the local sheriffs & police departments, not the Coast Guard, and should not have been included anyway as a blanket statement that doesn't accurately describe all of them anyway...my apologies to you and everyone else I wronged with that silly statement that I would now like to delete, but guess I'm now stuck with it... I stand by my comment that no law enforcement or military unit should be stopping boaters or anyone else with no probable cause and no warrant.
I have had many encounters with Coast Guard
personnel. All of them have been pleasant and professional. I have great regard for men and women that will patrol our water ways in full uniform and equipment with pdfs in 90 degree weather and still be able to conduct themselves in a civil manner when they have to deal with some of the very unpleasant citizens that populate our lakes, rivers and bays. They have enough to do that they have no need to go out of their way to trouble honest boaters who are going about their business in a responsible manner.
personnel. All of them have been pleasant and professional. I have great regard for men and women that will patrol our water ways in full uniform and equipment with pdfs in 90 degree weather and still be able to conduct themselves in a civil manner when they have to deal with some of the very unpleasant citizens that populate our lakes, rivers and bays. They have enough to do that they have no need to go out of their way to trouble honest boaters who are going about their business in a responsible manner.
GuyH
As a LE officer I assure you I did not take offense to your comments. In my years on the job I have found that most of the people who make "blanket statements" normally don't mean them as blanket statements. I wholeheartedly agree with you that w/o probable cause, ones liberties should not be impeded by anyone. I love our Constitution and I make sure that my reasonable suspicion encounters with people are short, to the point and pleasant. And when I have probable cause to stop someone (on the street or in a car) it is rock solid and for a legitimate reason. And believe it or not, most of my colleagues feel the same way. No, I was not in the military. Not for any specific reason and definitely not because I didn't have the balls to. I chose to protect freedom here. Anyway, on this site, we are all sailors. Regardless of our backgrounds, opinions, political affiliations or professions, in the end we should all be able to kick back together with a cold one in hand and some Buffett in the background! Jack Manning s/v Vicitm of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
As a LE officer I assure you I did not take offense to your comments. In my years on the job I have found that most of the people who make "blanket statements" normally don't mean them as blanket statements. I wholeheartedly agree with you that w/o probable cause, ones liberties should not be impeded by anyone. I love our Constitution and I make sure that my reasonable suspicion encounters with people are short, to the point and pleasant. And when I have probable cause to stop someone (on the street or in a car) it is rock solid and for a legitimate reason. And believe it or not, most of my colleagues feel the same way. No, I was not in the military. Not for any specific reason and definitely not because I didn't have the balls to. I chose to protect freedom here. Anyway, on this site, we are all sailors. Regardless of our backgrounds, opinions, political affiliations or professions, in the end we should all be able to kick back together with a cold one in hand and some Buffett in the background! Jack Manning s/v Vicitm of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
voting
Personally I feel from the last 10 to 15 years all our new laws rules and regs should have been voted on by the pepole and not just left up to congress or gov. and such that my friends is an out dated way to be regulated.I don't feel we need more papers to feel free. As far as feeling safe I worry every day about a police state and what I was in the military for years back.I only hope I can get some of our old freedoms back for my children.
Personally I feel from the last 10 to 15 years all our new laws rules and regs should have been voted on by the pepole and not just left up to congress or gov. and such that my friends is an out dated way to be regulated.I don't feel we need more papers to feel free. As far as feeling safe I worry every day about a police state and what I was in the military for years back.I only hope I can get some of our old freedoms back for my children.
This is Crap!! We don't need the USCG
I have had more problems with the inexperence petty officers the with any other gov body. I lost a vessel in a storm because of there so call life safety issues. They have no mission, military bearing or knowledge of a sailing vessel. Just because they are in a gov service they still get a Capt license at least a 6 pack.
I have had more problems with the inexperence petty officers the with any other gov body. I lost a vessel in a storm because of there so call life safety issues. They have no mission, military bearing or knowledge of a sailing vessel. Just because they are in a gov service they still get a Capt license at least a 6 pack.
Been there, done that!
The very first time I ever sailed my boat out onto Lake Superior I was boarded by the CG. Thanks to my classes and US Boat list and West Marine, I had all necessary safety gear and all my paperwork on the boat. To the amazement of my best friend who was sailing with me that day, I even knew exactly where everything was! I must say though even as a completely honest and straight laced US citizen, when they bark orders at you and come flying onto your boat carrying weapons, it was somewhat intimidating! I also can say that I think any new ID is a waste of time and money. Crooks would be the first ones with all the right paperwork. I also don't think the Homeland Security is much more than a Bushism. JMB
The very first time I ever sailed my boat out onto Lake Superior I was boarded by the CG. Thanks to my classes and US Boat list and West Marine, I had all necessary safety gear and all my paperwork on the boat. To the amazement of my best friend who was sailing with me that day, I even knew exactly where everything was! I must say though even as a completely honest and straight laced US citizen, when they bark orders at you and come flying onto your boat carrying weapons, it was somewhat intimidating! I also can say that I think any new ID is a waste of time and money. Crooks would be the first ones with all the right paperwork. I also don't think the Homeland Security is much more than a Bushism. JMB
RE: JChris
Judging by the last sentence, me thinks that someone may have had a bit of trouble with some licensing. Correct me if I am wrong. The USCG is an invaluable asset to boaters, sailors and anyone who venture out on the water. Regardless of any rules, regulations, laws, etc. the rank and file USCG member risks his life every day to make our sport/hobby/lifestyle safer. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
Judging by the last sentence, me thinks that someone may have had a bit of trouble with some licensing. Correct me if I am wrong. The USCG is an invaluable asset to boaters, sailors and anyone who venture out on the water. Regardless of any rules, regulations, laws, etc. the rank and file USCG member risks his life every day to make our sport/hobby/lifestyle safer. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
No Extra ID
While I have had no encounters with the USCG unlike some of the posters here I would like to think they can and mostly do a good service for us. I'll be happy they are there when I call. They will have to board or at least get very close to see who is on a vessel. At that point they will have access to my registration, license & boat course cards. Why would this not be sufficient? I suppose getting a drivers license might not be possible for some people who can boat and maybe we should have a provision for them to have an ID card. Can't we stop pissing away so much money with this Sept 11 response. I'd bet Osama loves hearing about these sorts of things--just the response he was looking for. Thanks Rick Post#86. Don't wait for election day; vote now by writing your elected officials and your advocacy groups.
While I have had no encounters with the USCG unlike some of the posters here I would like to think they can and mostly do a good service for us. I'll be happy they are there when I call. They will have to board or at least get very close to see who is on a vessel. At that point they will have access to my registration, license & boat course cards. Why would this not be sufficient? I suppose getting a drivers license might not be possible for some people who can boat and maybe we should have a provision for them to have an ID card. Can't we stop pissing away so much money with this Sept 11 response. I'd bet Osama loves hearing about these sorts of things--just the response he was looking for. Thanks Rick Post#86. Don't wait for election day; vote now by writing your elected officials and your advocacy groups.
Please correct me if I am wrong
Back during the Vietnam war, 65 to 75, serving in the Coast Guard was the chicken sh-t thing to do. Some will say smart. I say chickensh_t. Although it was a step above going to either Canada or school. I guess the National Guard was in there also. So now back to the Coast Guard. It's been stated here, that they risk their lives everyday. Really? Everyday? I think not. But if one includes boarding a vessel built and maintained by the lowest bidder ,risking ones life, then I guess they do. Setting marker buoys is not life threatening, nor is flying in airplanes during a storm. But then again, just getting out of bed is life threatening. Answering a distress call is not life threatening. Going out in bad weather is not life threatening. Some enjoy 10ft waves. Are surfers risking their lives in these waves? After all there are rocks below. Please don't misunderstand me, I have respect, but it must be earned. And I'll give credit, where credit is due. But give me a break. Just wearing a uniform doesn't demand, or command respect. I know, rules must be followed and order must be maintained to avoid chaos. It's not life threatening. Boarding local boats and saving lives is not risking ones own life, nessasarly. More risk in pulling over a car during a traffic stop. More crooks on land than water. The CG when in a risky situation, will and has backed off, not wanting to risk their own lives. I know there have been MANY times when they have risked their life. But not everyday. But there is a measured amount of risk involved. Example : They don't fly in inclement weather to save someone off a mountain. They'll wait, then fly once the measure of risk has subsided. I know, I'll get loads of hate mail now, but thats how I see it. Look where our glory seeking President Bush went to serve his country during high risk times. I guess stopping a sailboat or powerboat in a local waterway is risky when most aboard are wearing hardly any clothes and they are holding ice cold beverages and the CG has several automatic (belt fed) weapons trained on them. Now they do that everyday! Someone tell me thats not what they do. I'll take those odds any day, as opposed to walking the streets of Kabul. That is risking your life everyday. Serving in the CG/NG is a honorable job, but not very dangerous every day, all things considered. And thats what I do. Consider all things. A valid drivers license should suffice. Maybe they'll want a lie detector test too. Use the fingerprint/eye pupil. Get updated computers. No more plastic to carry Thanks for letting me spin, Keep it up, Ctskip
Back during the Vietnam war, 65 to 75, serving in the Coast Guard was the chicken sh-t thing to do. Some will say smart. I say chickensh_t. Although it was a step above going to either Canada or school. I guess the National Guard was in there also. So now back to the Coast Guard. It's been stated here, that they risk their lives everyday. Really? Everyday? I think not. But if one includes boarding a vessel built and maintained by the lowest bidder ,risking ones life, then I guess they do. Setting marker buoys is not life threatening, nor is flying in airplanes during a storm. But then again, just getting out of bed is life threatening. Answering a distress call is not life threatening. Going out in bad weather is not life threatening. Some enjoy 10ft waves. Are surfers risking their lives in these waves? After all there are rocks below. Please don't misunderstand me, I have respect, but it must be earned. And I'll give credit, where credit is due. But give me a break. Just wearing a uniform doesn't demand, or command respect. I know, rules must be followed and order must be maintained to avoid chaos. It's not life threatening. Boarding local boats and saving lives is not risking ones own life, nessasarly. More risk in pulling over a car during a traffic stop. More crooks on land than water. The CG when in a risky situation, will and has backed off, not wanting to risk their own lives. I know there have been MANY times when they have risked their life. But not everyday. But there is a measured amount of risk involved. Example : They don't fly in inclement weather to save someone off a mountain. They'll wait, then fly once the measure of risk has subsided. I know, I'll get loads of hate mail now, but thats how I see it. Look where our glory seeking President Bush went to serve his country during high risk times. I guess stopping a sailboat or powerboat in a local waterway is risky when most aboard are wearing hardly any clothes and they are holding ice cold beverages and the CG has several automatic (belt fed) weapons trained on them. Now they do that everyday! Someone tell me thats not what they do. I'll take those odds any day, as opposed to walking the streets of Kabul. That is risking your life everyday. Serving in the CG/NG is a honorable job, but not very dangerous every day, all things considered. And thats what I do. Consider all things. A valid drivers license should suffice. Maybe they'll want a lie detector test too. Use the fingerprint/eye pupil. Get updated computers. No more plastic to carry Thanks for letting me spin, Keep it up, Ctskip
The United States Coast Guard
Ctskip, This is a list of just the ones who died in small boats. www.uscg.mil/history/USCGSBKIA.html And 1,917 died in World War II. Not a large number but if it was you that died you would think it’s an important number. I don’t know who many died in other wars but they were there. Not many die but considering the small number is the service I think it’s an extraordinary number. You may be right and a lot of people in the CG are in support roles but that still means a lot of men work by the rule that you have to go out but you don’t have to come back. And I don’t think it matters how much time you sit and wait or how much easy time you get to train for that call because when you get the call you go out. It may not be every day but on that one day when you do go out you will stay dead forever if something goes wrong. I have had my run-ins with the CG but I respect them and give them credit for what they do. All the best, Robert Gainer
Ctskip, This is a list of just the ones who died in small boats. www.uscg.mil/history/USCGSBKIA.html And 1,917 died in World War II. Not a large number but if it was you that died you would think it’s an important number. I don’t know who many died in other wars but they were there. Not many die but considering the small number is the service I think it’s an extraordinary number. You may be right and a lot of people in the CG are in support roles but that still means a lot of men work by the rule that you have to go out but you don’t have to come back. And I don’t think it matters how much time you sit and wait or how much easy time you get to train for that call because when you get the call you go out. It may not be every day but on that one day when you do go out you will stay dead forever if something goes wrong. I have had my run-ins with the CG but I respect them and give them credit for what they do. All the best, Robert Gainer
The CG has a mission, jchris1843...
and that mission is to save YOU, not your boat, in most circumstances. While I can see them risking their lives to save a person, putting their lives on the line to save a boat - unless it poses a serious risk to other lives - is a non-starter. You want your boat saved, call Vessel Assist.... or do THEY go out in nasty weather? Ctskip, my friend, you're wrong on some of what you posted. For starters, President Bush didn't join the CG, did he? I don't think it's valid to lump the CG and NG - the CG is a full-time force, which performs real-life missions all the time, whereas the NG is a part-time, mainly training organization that sometimes gets called to war or to deal with civil unrest/natural disaster. Big difference, don't you think? Obviously, the CG doesn't put their lives on the line every day - but neither do most cops and/or firemen. I reckon that approaching a bunch of obviously drunken, testosterone-overloaded idiots on a small boat is plenty dangerous - they're obviously not terrorists, but you never know who's gonna cop an attitude, or who might have a gun. I'd call stopping a boat on open water just as dangerous as making a traffic stop. That local cop probably has backup rolling, just in case, but the CG boat is on its own, I reckon. I don't have a problem with the CG using good judgement about when to risk their own lives in a rescue. There's nothing worthwhile in a CG chopper crashing in bad weather on a mountain or at sea while trying to rescue somebody. Obviously, rescues like those immortalized in 'The Guardian' are fanciful flights of a Hollywood producer's imagination - I seriously doubt that any chopper could fly in the kind of Force 10 gale that it would take to produce seas like we saw in the movie. In the particular case you mentioned about mountain climbers, I don't think that rescuers should take excessive risks to find people who knowingly and willingly undertook a dangerous adventure for the thrill of it. They knew what they were getting themselves into, for sure. Let's save the heroics for innocent victims, OK? Anyway, Ctskip, I didn't mean to start an argument with you, but you DID invite correction and comment, didn't you? ;D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
and that mission is to save YOU, not your boat, in most circumstances. While I can see them risking their lives to save a person, putting their lives on the line to save a boat - unless it poses a serious risk to other lives - is a non-starter. You want your boat saved, call Vessel Assist.... or do THEY go out in nasty weather? Ctskip, my friend, you're wrong on some of what you posted. For starters, President Bush didn't join the CG, did he? I don't think it's valid to lump the CG and NG - the CG is a full-time force, which performs real-life missions all the time, whereas the NG is a part-time, mainly training organization that sometimes gets called to war or to deal with civil unrest/natural disaster. Big difference, don't you think? Obviously, the CG doesn't put their lives on the line every day - but neither do most cops and/or firemen. I reckon that approaching a bunch of obviously drunken, testosterone-overloaded idiots on a small boat is plenty dangerous - they're obviously not terrorists, but you never know who's gonna cop an attitude, or who might have a gun. I'd call stopping a boat on open water just as dangerous as making a traffic stop. That local cop probably has backup rolling, just in case, but the CG boat is on its own, I reckon. I don't have a problem with the CG using good judgement about when to risk their own lives in a rescue. There's nothing worthwhile in a CG chopper crashing in bad weather on a mountain or at sea while trying to rescue somebody. Obviously, rescues like those immortalized in 'The Guardian' are fanciful flights of a Hollywood producer's imagination - I seriously doubt that any chopper could fly in the kind of Force 10 gale that it would take to produce seas like we saw in the movie. In the particular case you mentioned about mountain climbers, I don't think that rescuers should take excessive risks to find people who knowingly and willingly undertook a dangerous adventure for the thrill of it. They knew what they were getting themselves into, for sure. Let's save the heroics for innocent victims, OK? Anyway, Ctskip, I didn't mean to start an argument with you, but you DID invite correction and comment, didn't you? ;D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
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