Check out this article. A British couple was boarded and terrorized by pirates off the coast of Venezuela. They robbed them at gun point and shot their dog. I was just looking at a map on a wall in my office yesterday as I was thinking of sailing from Trinidad to Roatan, Honduras and thinking to myself if it made sense to try and avoid as much of Venezuela as possible due to Chavez and his hatred for Americans. This answers my questions but now creates another debate within me regarding guns on board!!
Pirates of the Caribbean
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J
John
Been there
I know this is a little off the topic of sailing, but I feel I have to comment: I was in Venezuela a few years ago. I really didn't feel any "hatred for Americans", neither from the government nor from the population. (I speak fluent Spanish.) Now, hatred for Bush... that's another question. I figure that not everybody on this list feels that way, but we know that there are plenty here in this country too who do.
I know this is a little off the topic of sailing, but I feel I have to comment: I was in Venezuela a few years ago. I really didn't feel any "hatred for Americans", neither from the government nor from the population. (I speak fluent Spanish.) Now, hatred for Bush... that's another question. I figure that not everybody on this list feels that way, but we know that there are plenty here in this country too who do.
M
Mike - Papillon
They were too close to shore
I met a couple who had spent quite a bit of time down in that area. There are certain areas that are know pirate havens that require you to sail at night, well off shore by at least 25-30 miles, run without lights, and watch the radar like a hawk. They stated that running that far off shore and without lights keeps you from being spotted. And if you should be found you'd be too far off shore for them to make it out and back on a tank of fuel.
I met a couple who had spent quite a bit of time down in that area. There are certain areas that are know pirate havens that require you to sail at night, well off shore by at least 25-30 miles, run without lights, and watch the radar like a hawk. They stated that running that far off shore and without lights keeps you from being spotted. And if you should be found you'd be too far off shore for them to make it out and back on a tank of fuel.
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jviss
O.K., but...
... then why bother watching the radar? If you are undetected, no problem. If they are coming for you in powerboats, what can you do about it?
It's interesting to me when opponents of private firearms ownership ask, somewhat rhetorically, "why would someone ever need a machine gun?" I think a couple of submachine guns might be a useful deterrent in this case. Pity few countries allow it. The pirates always seem to be well armed.
... then why bother watching the radar? If you are undetected, no problem. If they are coming for you in powerboats, what can you do about it?
It's interesting to me when opponents of private firearms ownership ask, somewhat rhetorically, "why would someone ever need a machine gun?" I think a couple of submachine guns might be a useful deterrent in this case. Pity few countries allow it. The pirates always seem to be well armed.
C
Cap't Ron
Non-political
The best true life book in recent times dealing with piracy was written by the well know captital-case procecutor Vincent Bugliosi who put the Manson family scum in prison "And the Sea Will Tell" A good man, a great writer and makes a good case for capital punishment especially with and escapee like "Buck".
This is non-fiction.
A friend recently came through the straits of Malacca where there has been some trouble in the past, some heresay, and some true storys.He came through with a flotilla of 18 yachts.They stayed together as planned non going at a speed more than the slowest of the pack.All kept the same range as they could in the dark, which I know can be trouble.
I don't know, jury is still out on the guns. On the one hand they seem to stir more problems than solved. Still....a paradox, I had an illicit Freedom Arms five-shot revolver hidden aboard, and made a 12 gauge stainless insert for my aluminum very pistol which worked pretty well, except for the kick!
I agree, you WILL very likely be out gunnned, but then again they are bullys and prey on the weak, so a few shots in the air if boarding looks immanent, this is NOT a place for surprise, but kicking over the table like Wyatt Earp here.
The best true life book in recent times dealing with piracy was written by the well know captital-case procecutor Vincent Bugliosi who put the Manson family scum in prison "And the Sea Will Tell" A good man, a great writer and makes a good case for capital punishment especially with and escapee like "Buck".
This is non-fiction.
A friend recently came through the straits of Malacca where there has been some trouble in the past, some heresay, and some true storys.He came through with a flotilla of 18 yachts.They stayed together as planned non going at a speed more than the slowest of the pack.All kept the same range as they could in the dark, which I know can be trouble.
I don't know, jury is still out on the guns. On the one hand they seem to stir more problems than solved. Still....a paradox, I had an illicit Freedom Arms five-shot revolver hidden aboard, and made a 12 gauge stainless insert for my aluminum very pistol which worked pretty well, except for the kick!
I agree, you WILL very likely be out gunnned, but then again they are bullys and prey on the weak, so a few shots in the air if boarding looks immanent, this is NOT a place for surprise, but kicking over the table like Wyatt Earp here.
P
Patrick , S/V Shangra-La
When I go out into the gulf
I carry a .45 Auto. If it is going to be a couple of days out I add an AK 47.
They may have more, but I'm not going down with out a fight.
I was stopped by customs, and home land security once, they asked me if I had a gun on board. I told them I did, after a quick check of the serial numbers and a search for drugs, they wished me a good trip.
As they don't have a problem with the guns, I can't see why any one except a theif would.
I carry a .45 Auto. If it is going to be a couple of days out I add an AK 47.
They may have more, but I'm not going down with out a fight.
I was stopped by customs, and home land security once, they asked me if I had a gun on board. I told them I did, after a quick check of the serial numbers and a search for drugs, they wished me a good trip.
As they don't have a problem with the guns, I can't see why any one except a theif would.
R
Ross
If I were going into harm's way I would not go naked.
.30 cal. rifles would be the least of my weapons. 12 gauge shotguns would be backups.
.30 cal. rifles would be the least of my weapons. 12 gauge shotguns would be backups.
J
John
guns of other countries?
Just cruising the Gulf of Mexico is one thing, but my understanding is that it is illegal and pretty risky to carry firearms into many other countries, including Mexico. Does anybody know about that? (I think I heard that a shotgun is legal. That might be the best defensive weapon anyway.)
Just cruising the Gulf of Mexico is one thing, but my understanding is that it is illegal and pretty risky to carry firearms into many other countries, including Mexico. Does anybody know about that? (I think I heard that a shotgun is legal. That might be the best defensive weapon anyway.)
N
Nice N Easy
Guns
If you are caught in some Latin American countries, you go directly to jail, without passing goal. In Mexico, the justice system is a little different than ours. If you are taken to jail for a crime, you have to prove yourself innocent, not the other way around, there is no such thing as bail, you stay in jail until you go to trial. And they do not feed you last I heard. It is the responsibility of your family to get food to you. You do NOT want to go to jail in Mexico.
If you are caught in some Latin American countries, you go directly to jail, without passing goal. In Mexico, the justice system is a little different than ours. If you are taken to jail for a crime, you have to prove yourself innocent, not the other way around, there is no such thing as bail, you stay in jail until you go to trial. And they do not feed you last I heard. It is the responsibility of your family to get food to you. You do NOT want to go to jail in Mexico.
J
John New
And the Sea Will Tell
Cap't Ron wrote:
"The best true life book in recent times dealing with piracy was written by the well know captital-case procecutor Vincent Bugliosi who put the Manson family scum in prison "And the Sea Will Tell" A good man, a great writer and makes a good case for capital punishment especially with and escapee like "Buck".
This is non-fiction."
First of all, you need to get your facts straight. The book is over 20 years old. Mac and Muff Graham (the murder victims in the Palmyra murder case) were well armed on board their ketch, the Sea Wind, but were murdered nonetheless. Furthermore, Bugliosi was the defense attorney in that case (not the prosecutor)for one of the defendants, Stephanie Stearns, aka "Jennifer Jenkins" and the death penalty was off the table because the trial was held when the federal system (under which Walker was tried for murder-not piracy) had no death penalty at the time (and Bugliosi would hardly have wanted the death penalty for his own client). "Buck" Walker, the convicted killer of Muff Graham (Mac Graham's murder remains unsolved) is now out on parole.
Moreover, if you check the forums here, or on other sailing sites (and I can inform you as an attorney), you will find that carrying unregistered firearms, or any firearms for that matter, aboard your boat in the Caribbean (macho posturing notwithstanding) is likely to land you in very serious legal difficulties with the local law enforcement authorities, who are considerably less punctilious in their dealings with suspects than are American law enforcement officers.
Cap't Ron wrote:
"The best true life book in recent times dealing with piracy was written by the well know captital-case procecutor Vincent Bugliosi who put the Manson family scum in prison "And the Sea Will Tell" A good man, a great writer and makes a good case for capital punishment especially with and escapee like "Buck".
This is non-fiction."
First of all, you need to get your facts straight. The book is over 20 years old. Mac and Muff Graham (the murder victims in the Palmyra murder case) were well armed on board their ketch, the Sea Wind, but were murdered nonetheless. Furthermore, Bugliosi was the defense attorney in that case (not the prosecutor)for one of the defendants, Stephanie Stearns, aka "Jennifer Jenkins" and the death penalty was off the table because the trial was held when the federal system (under which Walker was tried for murder-not piracy) had no death penalty at the time (and Bugliosi would hardly have wanted the death penalty for his own client). "Buck" Walker, the convicted killer of Muff Graham (Mac Graham's murder remains unsolved) is now out on parole.
Moreover, if you check the forums here, or on other sailing sites (and I can inform you as an attorney), you will find that carrying unregistered firearms, or any firearms for that matter, aboard your boat in the Caribbean (macho posturing notwithstanding) is likely to land you in very serious legal difficulties with the local law enforcement authorities, who are considerably less punctilious in their dealings with suspects than are American law enforcement officers.
C
Cap't Ron
Flattering flatulence....
So nice of you to pay attnetion to my writing here and shine your Wilkenson razor mind on this subject gomer, your parents must be proud.
Sir, I did not say this was in the Carribean, are the Starits of Malacca in the Carribean?
Reading the book it is obvious Mr. Bugliosi was on defense, he HAD been chief prosecutor in the Manson case and wrote a book on that too.
Piracy has been going on for thousands of years, this from the early seventies is in "my recent memory" it was my post not yours Pyle
Then, I am biased to this particular story because of the FACTS that: I was in Hawaii at least part of the time when it occurred, then in San Francisco when the trial was too.
I also knew Curt Shoemacher, he was the radio contact from Hawaii, who had a weekly contact with Mac & Muff. He also notified authorities when they failed to check in. I was anchored next to Curt in the Fanning Island lagoon in '92 not 200 nm from Palmyra where the grisly murders took place.
A few months later I saw Curt in Tutuial, Samoa when he'd put his boat up on a reef there and was a total loss.
Further, I had a connection with the expedition leader and bilolgist who was flown down to Christmas Island from the University of Hawaii, then by rust bucket to Palmyra. Ricky Grigg, led the expedition to recover the bodies with reef sharks all round the divers.
I worked for Ricky as a diver along with Terry Kirby (who is now dive operator of the deep sub and has been on PBS several times) on the Star II submarine on Oahu launching and recovering the sub that was then attached to the U.H. in '77.
He was a great big-wave surfer and quite a famous guy in the islands.
When first I thought of the book association with piracy, it was Mac's own encounter with pirates in the Med near Gibraltor.
What came to mind was the time he'd leveled his rifle at would be pirates, and stood bravely on the foredeck with a spot-light shining on himself until they veered off! The FACT of the murders came years later after his circumnavigation.
Only a Bugliosi could have pulled Jennifer out from a certain guilty verdict.The 4-2=2 on a desert island is what a sane mind would gravitate towards on any jury.
Lawyers are a dime a dozen here in Califonia, and it is not a highly regarded profession sir....;-)
So nice of you to pay attnetion to my writing here and shine your Wilkenson razor mind on this subject gomer, your parents must be proud.
Sir, I did not say this was in the Carribean, are the Starits of Malacca in the Carribean?
Reading the book it is obvious Mr. Bugliosi was on defense, he HAD been chief prosecutor in the Manson case and wrote a book on that too.
Piracy has been going on for thousands of years, this from the early seventies is in "my recent memory" it was my post not yours Pyle
Then, I am biased to this particular story because of the FACTS that: I was in Hawaii at least part of the time when it occurred, then in San Francisco when the trial was too.
I also knew Curt Shoemacher, he was the radio contact from Hawaii, who had a weekly contact with Mac & Muff. He also notified authorities when they failed to check in. I was anchored next to Curt in the Fanning Island lagoon in '92 not 200 nm from Palmyra where the grisly murders took place.
A few months later I saw Curt in Tutuial, Samoa when he'd put his boat up on a reef there and was a total loss.
Further, I had a connection with the expedition leader and bilolgist who was flown down to Christmas Island from the University of Hawaii, then by rust bucket to Palmyra. Ricky Grigg, led the expedition to recover the bodies with reef sharks all round the divers.
I worked for Ricky as a diver along with Terry Kirby (who is now dive operator of the deep sub and has been on PBS several times) on the Star II submarine on Oahu launching and recovering the sub that was then attached to the U.H. in '77.
He was a great big-wave surfer and quite a famous guy in the islands.
When first I thought of the book association with piracy, it was Mac's own encounter with pirates in the Med near Gibraltor.
What came to mind was the time he'd leveled his rifle at would be pirates, and stood bravely on the foredeck with a spot-light shining on himself until they veered off! The FACT of the murders came years later after his circumnavigation.
Only a Bugliosi could have pulled Jennifer out from a certain guilty verdict.The 4-2=2 on a desert island is what a sane mind would gravitate towards on any jury.
Lawyers are a dime a dozen here in Califonia, and it is not a highly regarded profession sir....;-)
C
Cap't Ron
Ileagal firearms
Right! Both John and Nice & easy, absolutly true.
In fact I know a schooner that was seized in Jamaican waters and there was jail-time and some huge fines.They had been to a gun show somewhere in the states, but hid the guns and did not declare them when they entered port.
The customs will take the firearm, write it in a log, put it in a plastic bag, then return it to you when you leave thier port after your passport is stamped.
+ they count each and every round, take them too.
I always declared my little pistol in first world countries, but had it aboard in a few island nations where I really didn't need it. Stupid really for the near nil protection it afforded and the low crime rate in and around the south pacific and I would not do it again.
The flare pistol is at least some kinda protection even if a single-shot.
An American skipper killed a burgler with one in Mexico as he was stealing their inflatable.The skipper was declared innocent by the authorities.
Then there was a Whitebread crew that caught two or three burglers going through there gear onboard in the time-out of the race in (Brazil?) it was in S America, but they beat the begeezes out of them and guess who got arrested?
The race crew went to jail along with the criminals *666 ....;-)
Right! Both John and Nice & easy, absolutly true.
In fact I know a schooner that was seized in Jamaican waters and there was jail-time and some huge fines.They had been to a gun show somewhere in the states, but hid the guns and did not declare them when they entered port.
The customs will take the firearm, write it in a log, put it in a plastic bag, then return it to you when you leave thier port after your passport is stamped.
+ they count each and every round, take them too.
I always declared my little pistol in first world countries, but had it aboard in a few island nations where I really didn't need it. Stupid really for the near nil protection it afforded and the low crime rate in and around the south pacific and I would not do it again.
The flare pistol is at least some kinda protection even if a single-shot.
An American skipper killed a burgler with one in Mexico as he was stealing their inflatable.The skipper was declared innocent by the authorities.
Then there was a Whitebread crew that caught two or three burglers going through there gear onboard in the time-out of the race in (Brazil?) it was in S America, but they beat the begeezes out of them and guess who got arrested?
The race crew went to jail along with the criminals *666 ....;-)
I
ITMaster
My Colt Mark IV
.45 Auto is always with me, along with 2 clips and a box of cross cut hollow points. CG and other law enforcement has always been happy to disarm it, and stash it until we are done with our business and they depart. Even here in the states, I never know when someone will show up that I may need to protect myself from, and there is no law enforcement available at that time and place. It's sad we live in a world where we have to worry about having to protect ourselves.
.45 Auto is always with me, along with 2 clips and a box of cross cut hollow points. CG and other law enforcement has always been happy to disarm it, and stash it until we are done with our business and they depart. Even here in the states, I never know when someone will show up that I may need to protect myself from, and there is no law enforcement available at that time and place. It's sad we live in a world where we have to worry about having to protect ourselves.
D
Dean
Flare gun conversion/adapter
I have seen in Lattitudes and Attitudes magazine an ad for an insert for your flare gun that takes a 30-30 shell (I think). It would be single shot but reloading is quick. I will have one before I get out there.
Dean
I have seen in Lattitudes and Attitudes magazine an ad for an insert for your flare gun that takes a 30-30 shell (I think). It would be single shot but reloading is quick. I will have one before I get out there.
Dean
Flare gun adapters are not safe!
Did you not see the test results of the test firings of the flare pistol with the adapters?
They literally blew apart, and could cause serious injury to the person firing it.
Also remember - with an adapter in the flare pistol, it becomes a restricted weapon.
Did you not see the test results of the test firings of the flare pistol with the adapters?
They literally blew apart, and could cause serious injury to the person firing it.
Also remember - with an adapter in the flare pistol, it becomes a restricted weapon.
R
Ross
A .30-30 Rifle cartridge is not a pistol round
and I would not want to have to absorb the recoil in one hand. A .44 magnum weighs 3 pounds for a good reason and it is a bear to hold when you touch it off. A 12 gauge is the most versatile weapon you can find. Loaded with no.6 shot it is a good birding gun, with 00 shot it will take down men or deer. Loaded with solid ball and it will distroy an engine block.
and I would not want to have to absorb the recoil in one hand. A .44 magnum weighs 3 pounds for a good reason and it is a bear to hold when you touch it off. A 12 gauge is the most versatile weapon you can find. Loaded with no.6 shot it is a good birding gun, with 00 shot it will take down men or deer. Loaded with solid ball and it will distroy an engine block.
M
Mike - Papillon
So you can hide better
His point about watching the radar was so as soon as you spotted a boat coming out you could douse the sails, cut any lights, run farther of shore and in general make it more difficult for them to find you. If all that failed at least it would give you more time to formulate a plan of defense.
His point about watching the radar was so as soon as you spotted a boat coming out you could douse the sails, cut any lights, run farther of shore and in general make it more difficult for them to find you. If all that failed at least it would give you more time to formulate a plan of defense.
J
jviss
Be careful
I have a flare pistol with the 12 gauge adapter, and being an experienced shooter (and occasional gunsmith) I would never fire anything but the lightest load in that thing, fearing the breach would fail. It would be great to make a strong "clone" of a flare pistol that could handle OO-buck!
I have a flare pistol with the 12 gauge adapter, and being an experienced shooter (and occasional gunsmith) I would never fire anything but the lightest load in that thing, fearing the breach would fail. It would be great to make a strong "clone" of a flare pistol that could handle OO-buck!
C
CharlieCobra
If ya want a handgun that fires rifle rounds.
Buy a Thompson Contender. Decent guns but just not my cup of tea.
Buy a Thompson Contender. Decent guns but just not my cup of tea.
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