Physically Challenged
- Thread starter DC1417
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I think you will be fine....
if you take some of the advice of these guys. I too had my problems. I had serious back problems for six months. The doctors could not diagonse and I was probably within weeks of putting my boat up for sail. It was no longer safe for me to sail and I had to think of the family. I figured this was just my cross to bear. But I did find a good doc, went to PT, and got out of pain. More importantly today I spend 5 minutes every morning doing back strengthing exercises. I find I can hold up longer and have less strains than I did when I was in my 30's. If I only knew then what I know now...........
if you take some of the advice of these guys. I too had my problems. I had serious back problems for six months. The doctors could not diagonse and I was probably within weeks of putting my boat up for sail. It was no longer safe for me to sail and I had to think of the family. I figured this was just my cross to bear. But I did find a good doc, went to PT, and got out of pain. More importantly today I spend 5 minutes every morning doing back strengthing exercises. I find I can hold up longer and have less strains than I did when I was in my 30's. If I only knew then what I know now...........
HUMMMM..
I suspected that this forum was full of a bunch of old farts who all think they know it all... after this thread, I don't suspect anymore.
It's obvious that retired old sailors have nothing better to do than post their (often suspect) opinions and views 'cause they've got nothing better to do. So, since I am a baby in this group (I'll be 60 in May), I want you all to drink your "Ensure", change your "Depends", take your "Jeritol" then go "kick some boat ass... cause "you ain't dead yet". Oh, and DC, my suggestion is, ... having the right fordeck crew will help you forget all those aches & pains, (if your alzheimer's hasn't already)......... Have a nice boating season, and remember, at our age,... you can't trust a fart!
I suspected that this forum was full of a bunch of old farts who all think they know it all... after this thread, I don't suspect anymore.
It's obvious that retired old sailors have nothing better to do than post their (often suspect) opinions and views 'cause they've got nothing better to do. So, since I am a baby in this group (I'll be 60 in May), I want you all to drink your "Ensure", change your "Depends", take your "Jeritol" then go "kick some boat ass... cause "you ain't dead yet". Oh, and DC, my suggestion is, ... having the right fordeck crew will help you forget all those aches & pains, (if your alzheimer's hasn't already)......... Have a nice boating season, and remember, at our age,... you can't trust a fart!
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
physically challenged and not there yet
Your line regarding physically challenged but not there yet, got me to thinking about our club and some of the boats and sailors there. Hopefully this will help you as others have stated in realizing that you are decades from 'hanging up the winch handle' yet. It is obvious from all the posts that the average age of posters here is likely several decades, with many approaching, at or post retirement. (Someone joked last week that the average age was 85, and that may not be far from the truth. Anyhow to the nugget of your question... what to do about your boat and dock... Our club hosted the Canada Summer games a few summers ago and we benefited by retrofitting the club, all docks and a few club boats to accommodate anyone with a physical disability. This included ramps to all access points of docks, doors, ramps storage units etc. As well, we add a couple of small swivel cranes, the type you may see in the corner of a 1/2 ton truck, as well as some lifting harnesses. I know you are not there yet but we have had a few members of our club that do not have use of their legs in any way shape or form. Our on site sailing instructor, harbour master, and a number of other club members have been versed in the use of this equipment, and users who have a disability can either call ahead, or typically just wait around for someone to assist them on and off the boats. We have a couple of Martin 16 sailboats in our fleet. These boats are built for a person with physical disabilities. Although both are joystick driven for the tiller, and all lines lead back to the reach of the upper body abled person, we also have a sip/puff controller and electric 'gizzmo' to manage all the controls for a person with quadraplegia. So without being facetious... with these boats and controls, if you can breath, you can sail! That said, you have a long way to go before you have to give up your boat for a Martin 16, but just knowing that that is a possibiliy will allow you to keep sailing into ripe old age. For now however, modifications at your dock and in your cockpit may make tasks easier for you. As others have said, lines led aft, electric winches, and either a sliding or swivel seat on an arm for tacking from side to side, may be what is needed for now. A self tending jib and roller furling, may make your sail easier as well. I am only 53 this year, but have already started modifying my boat so that I don't place myself in a situation where I may injure myself. My lines are led aft, and I have roller furling in the jib. Just this week, I extended my boat hook so that I could reach lines that have gone astray without having to go forward. I have an anchor in the stern, and the bow anchor can be set up to set from the cockpit even though it drops from the stern. I have seen a setup where the main anchor line was clipped to a line that ran from the stem to aft quarter. The anchor line was clipped to this fore and aft line, and placed overboard from the cockpit. The boat was then turned into the wind using the tiller, and the clip moved forward to the bow end, where it would stay. When retrieving the anchor, a separate messanger line that had been tied to the clip and running back to the cockpit, was simply pulled on to bring the clip and anchor rode to the cockpit, where it was pulled aboard, stowed, and sailing continued without the sailor ever having to go forward. Obviously this system could not be used in all situations, but I thought it was a great innovation. I had my come uppance a number of years ago at our flying club when I asked a 71 year old acquaintance if the reason for wearing the harness he was wearing was for assistance getting in and out of the plane. He replied, "hell no, this is my sky diving harness!" I have never questioned age and ability since. Hope these suggestions help.
Your line regarding physically challenged but not there yet, got me to thinking about our club and some of the boats and sailors there. Hopefully this will help you as others have stated in realizing that you are decades from 'hanging up the winch handle' yet. It is obvious from all the posts that the average age of posters here is likely several decades, with many approaching, at or post retirement. (Someone joked last week that the average age was 85, and that may not be far from the truth. Anyhow to the nugget of your question... what to do about your boat and dock... Our club hosted the Canada Summer games a few summers ago and we benefited by retrofitting the club, all docks and a few club boats to accommodate anyone with a physical disability. This included ramps to all access points of docks, doors, ramps storage units etc. As well, we add a couple of small swivel cranes, the type you may see in the corner of a 1/2 ton truck, as well as some lifting harnesses. I know you are not there yet but we have had a few members of our club that do not have use of their legs in any way shape or form. Our on site sailing instructor, harbour master, and a number of other club members have been versed in the use of this equipment, and users who have a disability can either call ahead, or typically just wait around for someone to assist them on and off the boats. We have a couple of Martin 16 sailboats in our fleet. These boats are built for a person with physical disabilities. Although both are joystick driven for the tiller, and all lines lead back to the reach of the upper body abled person, we also have a sip/puff controller and electric 'gizzmo' to manage all the controls for a person with quadraplegia. So without being facetious... with these boats and controls, if you can breath, you can sail! That said, you have a long way to go before you have to give up your boat for a Martin 16, but just knowing that that is a possibiliy will allow you to keep sailing into ripe old age. For now however, modifications at your dock and in your cockpit may make tasks easier for you. As others have said, lines led aft, electric winches, and either a sliding or swivel seat on an arm for tacking from side to side, may be what is needed for now. A self tending jib and roller furling, may make your sail easier as well. I am only 53 this year, but have already started modifying my boat so that I don't place myself in a situation where I may injure myself. My lines are led aft, and I have roller furling in the jib. Just this week, I extended my boat hook so that I could reach lines that have gone astray without having to go forward. I have an anchor in the stern, and the bow anchor can be set up to set from the cockpit even though it drops from the stern. I have seen a setup where the main anchor line was clipped to a line that ran from the stem to aft quarter. The anchor line was clipped to this fore and aft line, and placed overboard from the cockpit. The boat was then turned into the wind using the tiller, and the clip moved forward to the bow end, where it would stay. When retrieving the anchor, a separate messanger line that had been tied to the clip and running back to the cockpit, was simply pulled on to bring the clip and anchor rode to the cockpit, where it was pulled aboard, stowed, and sailing continued without the sailor ever having to go forward. Obviously this system could not be used in all situations, but I thought it was a great innovation. I had my come uppance a number of years ago at our flying club when I asked a 71 year old acquaintance if the reason for wearing the harness he was wearing was for assistance getting in and out of the plane. He replied, "hell no, this is my sky diving harness!" I have never questioned age and ability since. Hope these suggestions help.
Hey, Buck, love the photo
Now, what were we discussing? Oh, yeah, age. I'm 60 and I'm carrying far too much body weight. I know how DC feels because I feel that way every time I get ready to use my boat. If I were in perfect condition, I'd be feeling great, although a little stiff. I've got my boat set up with lazy jacks which I count as a number one priority given my size. In my slip, I crawl up on the deck and take off the sail cover, check the rigging and I don't go back up there until I get back in the slip, unless of course I absolutely have to. The admiral hates the boat and everything about it, depending upon who's she's talking to and who's she's trying to impress. That lets her out as reliable crew, although she will come out of the cabin and sit in the cockpit for the right company. Some of my friends and crew members understand sailing and some don't. I try to stay out of situations that I know I can't handle and so far, so good. On the way home at night, I have yet to regret being on the water for the day, even if I only motor around.
Now, what were we discussing? Oh, yeah, age. I'm 60 and I'm carrying far too much body weight. I know how DC feels because I feel that way every time I get ready to use my boat. If I were in perfect condition, I'd be feeling great, although a little stiff. I've got my boat set up with lazy jacks which I count as a number one priority given my size. In my slip, I crawl up on the deck and take off the sail cover, check the rigging and I don't go back up there until I get back in the slip, unless of course I absolutely have to. The admiral hates the boat and everything about it, depending upon who's she's talking to and who's she's trying to impress. That lets her out as reliable crew, although she will come out of the cabin and sit in the cockpit for the right company. Some of my friends and crew members understand sailing and some don't. I try to stay out of situations that I know I can't handle and so far, so good. On the way home at night, I have yet to regret being on the water for the day, even if I only motor around.
I think that I must be one of the lucky ones. Nancy is
dancing from one foot to the other telling me that she wants to get the boat ready for launch. Working and weather seems to get in the way but there is a crew building a new bulkhead at the marina and I haven't talked to Stan lately about spring launch schedules. Nancy steers and trims sails and tells people I am her deck crew and cook. But she does clean up. Not bad for a youngster. She will be 68 in May.
dancing from one foot to the other telling me that she wants to get the boat ready for launch. Working and weather seems to get in the way but there is a crew building a new bulkhead at the marina and I haven't talked to Stan lately about spring launch schedules. Nancy steers and trims sails and tells people I am her deck crew and cook. But she does clean up. Not bad for a youngster. She will be 68 in May.
For those not there yet...
Our vet told us to keep our dogs thin - it will help prevent arthritis in the "knees" as they get older. I figure the same is probably true for people. I know that every step a man takes (probably a woman too) places stress equal to six times their weight. So if you lose ten pounds, this means sixty pounds of stress reduction on each knee for every step you take. That's just on level ground, never mind climbing, etc. I'm nearly 62 and worked most of my life in construction, so my knees bother me a little, but I think having kept my weight down has helped prevent a lot worse problem. Another issue - computer keyboards. I had a badly broken fore-arm. If I spend any considerable amount of time typing on a regular keyboard, my entire left arm aches clear up to the shoulder. I have a radical ergonomic keyboard called a "comfort keyboard" (see link). It allows me to type with my palms nearly facing each other rather than facing down. It's pricey, but worth it to me. Any of you who have wrist, elbow or shoulder problems and spend any considerable time at the computer - if you don't have an ergonomic keyboard, you should consider it. If you have arm or shoulder pain, maybe it's your keyboard. Also, I've noticed that if I pay attention, I can figure out what I'm doing that causes problems. At one time I was driving a long distance to work and back. My right knee started bothering me and I noticed that this was worst when I was driving. I realized that by letting my knee flop over to the outside, as many do when they drive, it was slightly torquing the knee. As long as I kept my leg lined up straight, I had no problem. Same when walking up and down stairs - keep your knees lined up straight, rather than going bowlegged (as I used to do). Finally, on the boat - the cheap alternative to power winches: There is a bit that can be put in a drill to turn the winch if a person has bad shoulders. I have one and now only need the drill - a Milwaukee right-angle battery operated drill ($350 new, but still a lot cheaper than power winches).
Our vet told us to keep our dogs thin - it will help prevent arthritis in the "knees" as they get older. I figure the same is probably true for people. I know that every step a man takes (probably a woman too) places stress equal to six times their weight. So if you lose ten pounds, this means sixty pounds of stress reduction on each knee for every step you take. That's just on level ground, never mind climbing, etc. I'm nearly 62 and worked most of my life in construction, so my knees bother me a little, but I think having kept my weight down has helped prevent a lot worse problem. Another issue - computer keyboards. I had a badly broken fore-arm. If I spend any considerable amount of time typing on a regular keyboard, my entire left arm aches clear up to the shoulder. I have a radical ergonomic keyboard called a "comfort keyboard" (see link). It allows me to type with my palms nearly facing each other rather than facing down. It's pricey, but worth it to me. Any of you who have wrist, elbow or shoulder problems and spend any considerable time at the computer - if you don't have an ergonomic keyboard, you should consider it. If you have arm or shoulder pain, maybe it's your keyboard. Also, I've noticed that if I pay attention, I can figure out what I'm doing that causes problems. At one time I was driving a long distance to work and back. My right knee started bothering me and I noticed that this was worst when I was driving. I realized that by letting my knee flop over to the outside, as many do when they drive, it was slightly torquing the knee. As long as I kept my leg lined up straight, I had no problem. Same when walking up and down stairs - keep your knees lined up straight, rather than going bowlegged (as I used to do). Finally, on the boat - the cheap alternative to power winches: There is a bit that can be put in a drill to turn the winch if a person has bad shoulders. I have one and now only need the drill - a Milwaukee right-angle battery operated drill ($350 new, but still a lot cheaper than power winches).
All us old guys are out on their boats
after having finished the work week (since this particular thread is so quiet this morning). I can only conclude: -- we should have retired earlier or we're still "working" 9-5, too hard -- we can still type and contribute -- we have our priorities right (I'm on my way to the boat...) -- or we're just all sleeping in...
after having finished the work week (since this particular thread is so quiet this morning). I can only conclude: -- we should have retired earlier or we're still "working" 9-5, too hard -- we can still type and contribute -- we have our priorities right (I'm on my way to the boat...) -- or we're just all sleeping in...
Great Thread
Hi DC My wife and I also sail a C-22 on the east end of Lake Ontario. Great boat and a great lake to sail on. I will be 61 this summer, and have some of the problems that everyone has at this age. My wife just turned 55, and loves to sail. Last year we put a set of Lumar 15 ST winches on the boat and what a great purchase that has been. My wife loves them and I do as well. If you have a bad shoulder this could be the ticket. We also have run all of the lines to the cockpit. I agree with another post about two line reefing. We have it set up for two reef points and have used the second point several times each season. So listen to all of the great advice the others have given and look forward to a great season. Good luck Dale
Hi DC My wife and I also sail a C-22 on the east end of Lake Ontario. Great boat and a great lake to sail on. I will be 61 this summer, and have some of the problems that everyone has at this age. My wife just turned 55, and loves to sail. Last year we put a set of Lumar 15 ST winches on the boat and what a great purchase that has been. My wife loves them and I do as well. If you have a bad shoulder this could be the ticket. We also have run all of the lines to the cockpit. I agree with another post about two line reefing. We have it set up for two reef points and have used the second point several times each season. So listen to all of the great advice the others have given and look forward to a great season. Good luck Dale
Stu - We're all just sleeping in .............
in the upper midwest where winter just won't let go. I'm semi-retired and just depressed as can be (depressed, not suicidal) because I get up in the morning and the sky is usually cloudy and the temperature is still in the 30's. All of you still young enough to move your families to a nicer climate: Do it as soon as you can so your children will grow up in these climates and have families there. That way you won't be sitting around in your twilight years wondering how to spend another day indoors but not wanting to leave your children and move to a milder climate. I forgot for a moment. There's still chocolate.
in the upper midwest where winter just won't let go. I'm semi-retired and just depressed as can be (depressed, not suicidal) because I get up in the morning and the sky is usually cloudy and the temperature is still in the 30's. All of you still young enough to move your families to a nicer climate: Do it as soon as you can so your children will grow up in these climates and have families there. That way you won't be sitting around in your twilight years wondering how to spend another day indoors but not wanting to leave your children and move to a milder climate. I forgot for a moment. There's still chocolate.
Vern, I live here, and my daughter
lives in NYC. She doesn't have a boat, but if she did, it'd still be on the hard. Hope it warms up for you soon. PS - she comes to visit me, and there's always the telephone. If it's too cold where you are, move.
lives in NYC. She doesn't have a boat, but if she did, it'd still be on the hard. Hope it warms up for you soon. PS - she comes to visit me, and there's always the telephone. If it's too cold where you are, move.
Stop thinking OLD. 60 is a new beginning
I will be sixty in a few months and reading your post might scare me if I was worn out. We all get our aches and pains different ways. Mine is from 30 Marathons, A few ultra's including the toughest one in Canada. Throw in an Ironman event at age 57 (after I learnt to swim sort of.) A couple of quotes to think about. "Pain is tempoary, pride is forever" Another one is "Ordinary people can do extraordinary things". My plan is to cross the finish line of life totally worn out and looking like hell, but I am going to have one helluva party time getting there. My suggestion is to get some pysio happening and make use of gym workouts. maybe even some yoga would help. It works. Sorry if I sound like I am being a bit hard on the old man but I think you need to stop thinking old. At 60 years, life is starting all over again. Go live it. Good luck Ken.
I will be sixty in a few months and reading your post might scare me if I was worn out. We all get our aches and pains different ways. Mine is from 30 Marathons, A few ultra's including the toughest one in Canada. Throw in an Ironman event at age 57 (after I learnt to swim sort of.) A couple of quotes to think about. "Pain is tempoary, pride is forever" Another one is "Ordinary people can do extraordinary things". My plan is to cross the finish line of life totally worn out and looking like hell, but I am going to have one helluva party time getting there. My suggestion is to get some pysio happening and make use of gym workouts. maybe even some yoga would help. It works. Sorry if I sound like I am being a bit hard on the old man but I think you need to stop thinking old. At 60 years, life is starting all over again. Go live it. Good luck Ken.
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